First I want to thank Impala77 for putting me hip to Dave at Pro-Touring F-body.com in one of his post about whether there is an available chassis strengthening brace to connect the front frame horns. Dave was very friendly and helpful and he sold me one his Sway Bar Braces for the '75-'81 2nd Gen F-Body, Part # 2CF-842 listed for $69.00. This brace is similar to the "Wonder Bar" steering brace that BMR makes for the 3rd Gen F-Body.
The part description on the website says to "Reduce chassis flex due to heavy sway bar loads and from side loading caused by today's performance tires, also help avoid ripping out the front sway bar bolts". It seems that the steering gear on our B-Bodies is doing double duty besides steering the car. It also has to control the chassis flex at the front as well. Another design/factory omission?? I think so.
The guys at Street Smart here in Brooklyn installed the Sway Bar Brace without difficulty. They had to make one of the mounting holes on one side of the frame a little bigger. What do you expect from a 20+ year old car. I have the Hellwig 1.375" front swaybar with the hammertone finish and there was no interference between the swaybar and the brace.
Well the installation happened on the very wet and rainy day and I didn't think I would feel any difference under such conditions and since I am running 707 LBS front springs and 275/40-18 size tires. But WOW!!! After leaving the shop and driving around the block the steering response and feel seemed to increase by at least 200%. So "Big Ups!!!" to Dave at Pro-Touring F-body.com. This is one cost effective mod. Dave even you recommends that if you are not planning any further mods to the area that you permanently weld the brace to the frame once it is securely bolted in.
First I want to thank Impala77 for putting me hip to Dave at Pro-Touring F-body.com in one of his post about whether there is an available chassis strengthening brace to connect the front frame horns. Dave was very friendly and helpful and he sold me one his Sway Bar Braces for the '75-'81 2nd Gen F-Body, Part # 2CF-842 listed for $69.00. This brace is similar to the "Wonder Bar" steering brace that BMR makes for the 3rd Gen F-Body.......
That's fricken awesome and thanks for sharing. Can't believe there is another mod I knew nothing about. I believe others here have made their own bracket to do the same thing. But for $69 this is a no brainier and will be getting 1 soon.
I guess it stands to reason that this bar designed for the 70-81 FBody would fit since I have the FBody bar on the car now. Just never considered this or even knew it was available. Looks like it also fits with your 9c1 power steering cooler line too....nice.
....
I guess it stands to reason that this bar designed for the 70-81 FBody would fit since I have the FBody bar on the car now. Just never considered this or even knew it was available. Looks like it also fits with your 9c1 power steering cooler line too....nice.
Important fun fact. The front suspension on the '73-'77 A-Body and '77-'96 B-Body is the exact same front suspension out of the '70-'81 2nd Gen F-Body designed by the great Herb Adams. I think that is why our B-body is something of an overachiever in the handling department and great platform to improve upon.
Yeah no problem with power steering cooling lines. They just had to tucked the lower radiator hose a little upward out of the way.
After seeing the "Buick Brace" I wondered about something like this. The concept fits KISS. Only thing I'm curious about now is and I saw it somewhere here and I think Scot talked about it. What if this bar had the sway bar bushing mount spacer too? One last question. Do you subtract the amount of the spacer from the end link proportionally? +1 inch spacer=-1 from link. Not to take away from OP
Very nice!
I was immediately surprised that a F-body brace would fit a B-body with little-to-no modification, until DUH, a bunch of people run the 1LE front bars, just like someone else mentioned up above.
Choo actually made me a frame rail/steering brace probably 2 or 3 years ago, and I STILL haven't gotten around to installing it. However, I might have some clearance issues with his design since I'm running an underdrive crank pulley as well.
I actually thought about contacting Choo to fab up a copy of his frame rail/steering brace as you have done. It looked really sturdy from the pictures on his chassis strengthening thread, but I was concerned that it might take up too much real estate in the front of the engine. I going to do a twin turbo LS conversion in the future and I was worried that his brace might take room down there that I might need for the extra piping, bigger radiators or intercoolers and such. So this brace from Pro-Touring F-Body seemed such a ready made, inexpensive and least intrusive solution.
But see below for my "dream front end/steering brace" from Savitske Classic & Custom (SC&C). You see it is a triangulated brace that attaches to the engine cradle and the two front frame horns. SC&C makes them for the '64-'67 A-Body, the '68-'72 A-Body and the '78-'87 G-Body, which is known as a real wet noodle of a frame among all of GM's Body-on-Frame chassis'.
Navy Lifer has lobbying the owner Mark Savitske for years to make one up for the '77-'96 Body for years now to no avail. Here is a link to the one for the popular '68-'72 A-Body: http://scandc.com/new/node/996.
Who knows maybe we can rustle up some demand and interest among us hardcore autocrossers and track day road course drivers?
Well here is a description of the brace from the SC&C website:
"SC&C Heavy Duty Chassis Brace
GM didn't dot all their I's and cross all their T's when they built the A body chassis (Chevelle, GS, 442, Etc.). The front frame horns were left without a crossmember and the bumper can't do the job. The result is a frame that deflects under heavy loads and a steering box that's hanging out there imparting all it's steering load on just one frame rail. SC&C's heavy duty tubular chassis brace fixes that factory oversight. It bolts under the chassis with large 1.25" diameter, 120" wall 1026 steel tubing welded into a triangulated and gusseted structure that ties the two frame rails firmly together. You'll notice an instant improvement in steering response, chassis stiffness, handling, and a welcome reduction in squeaks and rattles. Includes mounting hardware and instructions."
Very cool! Thanks for the heads up! I was planning on welding something up to do this, but it would be much easier to buy a pre-fabbed one and weld it in. I always figured some kind of brace up front there connecting the frame horns would make a difference (they used them in performance G bodies which is almost an identical chassis but if anything has LESS weight to deal with, so why would't they be on the b body?). I'm glad it actually made a noticeable difference!
I would assume that they are referring to the bar's thru holes, since the holes in the frame are tapped. Not really a big deal, but I'm interested as well.
I have a question about the socket head cap screws that are included with the bar. Can the OP comment on how much longer they are than stock? I hope that there's plenty of threads to catch on the frame side after being saced out by the mar's mounting plate.
Not sure and I don't think many people out there run the HA bar to begin with. Was wondering the same thing myself as I happen to have one of those bars that I stashed away years ago but have not mounted it yet.
When doing this "wonder bar" mod I may just try it first with the FBody sway bar that is currently on the care to get an idea how the new bar works together with the sway bar. Then will later add the HA bar by itself and see how things perform. Before I do anything though, I'm going to see about securing some bolts down thru the frame and just use nuts to secure everything. A few people have done this here and I don't like how the bolts thread into the frame. Bringing the studs down thru the frame and using nuts would be more secure and no fear of stripping out the frame threads with multiple removals.
ALL - be careful doing this as I believe the stock bolts used are TTY type of bolts and better to replace with some Grade 8 or better HW.
Im guessing you currently run the Herb Adams bar with Tie Rod ends on the car now. I never mounted mine to see how much better it does than the bar with bushing ends. Have you run the HA bar and if so how has it done over the stock setup and do you find that the rod ends wear out or does it seem to be harsh for a street car?? When I got my bar (used) the rod ends were shot. I contacted HA to get some part numbers for new rod ends and will install them when I mount the bar.
Edit - looks like we talked about this before ��, I still have not got around to installing the bar. �� Just figures to be a longer project as I intend to mount the bolts down thru the frame. In case anyone is wondering about all this HA talk, this is the bar with pics......
I got busy with SXSW this weekend, and forgot to mention that after reading the post Friday morning, I figured what better way to spend some of my money, and bought the bar around noon time.
By the time I left work, I had gotten a confirmation email that the bar had shipped!
These guys are on top of it, and this couldn't have come at a better time as I'm getting the control arms out of the storage unit, and getting ready to press in Del-A-Lum bushings for a complete front end rebuild with Moog parts, Eibach springs, new Bilsteins (4X)...and then hopefully a Lee Power Steering rebuilt pump & gear box to wrap everything up.
Ideally the rear facing section(s) of the sway bar should be orientated "neutral" level...I'm happy with this steel plate sandwiched between sway bar mounts,and the frame... Also installed with nuts on bolts coming through the inside of the frame,works really well...
Ideally the rear facing section(s) of the sway bar should be orientated "neutral" level...I'm happy with this steel plate sandwiched between sway bar mounts,and the frame... Also installed with nuts on bolts coming through the inside of the frame,works really well...
Okay, I just got off the phone with someone at their place, and they told me that the brace does NOT ship with hardware. It's up to us to get new fasteners.
He told me that he was surprised to see a large quantities of these being sold recently, and asked where I heard about them. Next time we should definitely put together a Group Purchase for something like this, since there was a large number of orders. He made it sound like there was a lot more people ordering this bar than all who have replied to this thread.
That being that, can someone please list the OEM size of the screw used in the front sway bar?
I'll see what I can find in the way of socket head cap screws in bulk, and if anyone is interested in getting (4) SHCS & (4) flat washers, let me know here, and I'll see what I can do in getting a bulk order of 18-8 stainless hardware.
I did call pro-touring about my order status. Nice guy answered the phone and said he had so many orders they had to make more and then send out to powder coating. He expected them back today and will ship. He did give me a tracking # and said paypal should have sent an email with tracking
In any event he said 19 were sold in 23 minutes last week so that way wiped their existing stock. He said generally they sell 2-3 a month. They are only a 3 man shop
Guy did say they make other stuff that will fit B-body platform and do have front tubular upper control arms and thinking about doing the lowers. I said to intro their company on ISSCA and offer what products they make. IIRC he said the pair of tubular uppers were $4xx
On the wtf they don't include hardware he said depending on the bracket/clamp (OEM, aftermarket, whatever) differences between them they did not include the bolts because of the various differences (head of bolt may not clear whatever sway bar bracket). Their bar mount plate is 1/4" so if your existing bolts do not have enough length than get whatever bolt length you need. He mentioned likely 12 point or alan head may be needed depending on head clearance of whatever sway bar mount one would have. I am not concerned about the hardware thing. If my bolts for my Hotchkis bar are not long enough I will just pick up some grade 8 or stainless whatever I need at the local hardware store. They have a huge, and tailored to car guys, fastener section.
If one had a welder, the flat & tube stock is no big $ deal to make their own. Fortunately when you consider the "clip & pay" method and it is powder coated...the $ is good for this. I wish I had welding equipment & skill though
I used the same 7/16-14 threaded holes in the frame from when the slightly smaller metric ones stripped out (as they all do)... Bolts went through from inside frame... Works really well,and can be gotten very tight...
Hey guys.I just emailed Savitske and told them a lot of guys on here are using there cars for road racing,autocross etc.Why don't a bunch of us start emailing him and maybe if he sees enough interest he will do something and make a chassis brace for us.
I'm glad everyone is having good luck with this brace. I found it when I bought a set of their upper control arms for my '77 2 door Caprice. The upper a-arms are nice as well and worked great on my car. But I sold that one last fall.
It had a 350 with a Super t-10 4 speed and a '94 Roadmaster rear with a 2.93 posi. The 4 speed had a 3.42 first so the rear gears were perfect.
I got the brace for my '77 2-door Impala (zz4 t-56 '91 9c1 rear with 4.11) but haven't put it on that one yet. As soon as it comes out of storage I will get the brace on. Maybe even get one for my '96 Roadmaster.
Hi Guys.I just got an email back from Savitske customs.They are waiting on a 9C1 to come in and they are making a brace for that car and then will be building them and selling them to us.Fingers crossed this can happen.
Paul.
Hi Guys.I just got an email back from Savitske customs.They are waiting on a 9C1 to come in and they are making a brace for that car and then will be building them and selling them to us.Fingers crossed this can happen.
Paul.
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