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Built LT4 engine for my newly acquired Impala SS

5K views 24 replies 7 participants last post by  KW Baraka 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello Guys, I am new to the forum and have recently acquired my parents Impala SS that they bought new in 96 and are now handing down to me since I have a little boy due in August. I grew up in this car and loved it from day one. Can't believe it's mine now! This car has well over 400k miles on it and my dad had already completely re-built all the suspension about 5 years ago. My dad and I pulled the engine out back in April and I have been going through an entire engine rebuild. I own a shop called H-Squared Racing Engines out of Houston, TX so I will be doing all the machining and engine building myself.

So far I have decided to go with a 383 cubic inch with a scat 9000 crankshaft, scat pro series 4340 I beam connecting rods and a set of custom Wiseco pistons that are gas ported and have a spherical dish. The Edelbrock LT4 heads and LT4 intake are on the way and I opted for the bare LT4 heads so I could put a hollow stem stainless steel Ferrea intake valve and stainless steel Ferrea exhaust valves, topped off with a nice set of PAC 1219X springs and titanium retainers. With these heads and my custom pistons the compression will be right at 11.23:1 using a FelPro MLS .026" thick head gaskets and the piston sitting .010" below the deck.

I have a good set of 42lb/hr injectors, motorsports technologies TB and G2 CAI. Purchased a SFI powerbond damper and the engine will have ARP main studs and ARP head bolts with a complete ARP engine bolt kit throughout the entire motor. I have chosen to stay with the opti spark ignition for now but will convert everything over to a LS1 computer and ignition in the future after I have this up and running. I am also contemplating going over to an electric water pump as I have read quite a bit about it on this forum with pretty good results. This will be my daily driver when she's back on the road so I have a good vehicle to drive my kid around in.

I am looking for good advice from some of you on here as to what oil pan fits best in these cars and how I can remove all my smog components. Also if anyone wants to chime in on a cam that they have ran that has performed great for them that would be great as well.

I'm excited to be a part of this community now and will be posting plenty of pics real soon! For now I have tried adding a link to dropbox so anyone can go check out the current progress.

Thank you all in advance for any help and input.

Halston Harrist
 
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#2 ·
If anyone can help assist me with how to upload pictures please do so. I'm new to the forums and it wouldn't let me upload my photos due to their size...
 
#3 ·
I typically upload my photos that I want to share to photobucket, grab the direct link, and paste into the address bar for the icon 'Insert Image'
 
#5 ·
halston

welcome to the forum and good to hear the SS is staying in the family. 400k mi...just getting broken in.

My $.02 on a few things:

Go with a forged crank vs aftermarket cast. I have the Scat forged FWIW. While the two piece crank issue has mostly happened with Eagle cast cranks, Scat cast has also been reported as prone to breakage.

Ferra valves are what I have, good valve

cam and head porting. Contact Lloyd Elliott Portworks and he will set you up right. Another option, usually more $, is Advanced Induction. Both can spec a custom grind cam specific to your build/use intent

If Emissions is not a issue for you, long tube headers, no CATS and air pump removal are typical. I have to stay on the smog legal side so can't go that route. Stan's Headers makes a nice Tri-Y for the B-body

oil pan. Stock works fine for a 383. Absolutely run a windage tray. You can use the stock one by just standing it off more with 1/8" washers between it and windage tray studs (and the one bolt that holds oil pump on also). IIRC ARP now makes the 3 extended main studs the tray attaches to, I know Miloden does or just re-use the 3 stock ones.

You "may" need to clearance the pan for the #2 rod bolts. I just laid the pan on without gasket and had someone turn motor over by hand and listened for any scraping. # 2 rod bolt put a hair line scratch on pan so I just used the big end of a wood baseball bat with pan on folded towels and just pushed out easily from inside the pan. With the pan gasket thickness alone it would have cleared but I gave it a little extra room by pushing the pan out slightly..

Stephs pans are used by some if you are looking for "more pan"

Electric Water Pump. FWIW I have 85k mi and 17 years on my Meziere...and no WP weep hole from mechanical pissing on Optis.
 
#7 ·
I was wanting to keep it a little more budget friendly is why I decided to just run the scat 9000 series crank. I am master WD with wiseco and K1 but still didn't want to spend to money on the crank. I may end up going that route just not 100% sure. Thanks for the heads up with the aftermarket cast cranks.

Do you really think it's necessary to port the heads and intake since I'm going with the edlebrock LT4 stuff? This is honestly going to be a 100% daily driver... If so maybe I'll speak with Greg Good here in Houston and have him massage on the heads a little.

Emissions definitely wont be an issue for me. I will make that work as I'm in Texas with Safety only inspection. I'm not sure if I want to shell out the $$$ for long tube aftermarket headers. For now I think I just want to delete the smog components unless I can find some affordable long tube headers as I already have a complete cat back 3" hooker header exhaust system. I just want to make sure I know the right way to remove all the smog stuff...

As for the oil pan I was just wanting a better pan but may stick with the stock pan as you suggested.

I'm pretty sure I will be using the Meziere 55gmp electric water pump. I'm getting pretty excited about the build.
 
#8 · (Edited)
If you haven't already bought the LT4 stuff (or can return it) you would be money ahead by having Lloyd Elliot set you up with a set of his ported LT1 casting heads. Not sure what the bare LT4 heads are going for, but by the time you by valves and springs, I am guessing it will be close to the price of an LE set of heads. You can send your stock LT1 intake to him and have it hogged out for a few hundred dollars. Plus, you have him spec the cam based on your set-up. With that, you will WAY out perform a set of as cast LT4 heads and intake. Now, if you want to have him port the LT4 stuff, that is a different story. :)

Everything else looks solid (if you can justify, I might agree with the forged crank just for a little extra insurance). You have a good quench, and your DCR is perfect. Pictures of the pistons? I don't know if I have ever seen a spherical dish in an LTx engine before.
 
#9 ·
I'll add the pictures of the pistons to the DropBox link but every time I have tried to upload straight from my computer it just says that my file is too big. I will call Lloyd and see what he can do for me with the edelbrock heads. I got the bare heads and intake from edelbrock for under $2000 as I have a wholesale account with them and they also helped me out some since it was for my personal build.
 
#10 ·
#13 ·
H-squared...

The edelbrock LT4 stuff, out of the box, is "OK" but the bang for the buck compared to LE ported GM AL heads goes to the LE stuff.

Since you already bought the Edelbrock heads LE can bring them around to be a very good performing head. Not saying your local guy can't, just LE has done the LT1/4 platform so much he is arguably the one guy, and a real nice guy also, who does it better. He has a range of packages from DD to all out solid roller builds so getting set up for a DD is not a problem.

On the direct upload to this site, yeah pictures need to be saved at a smaller file size before posting.

Post any ?'s you have. Many of us have owned their B-body since new and have picked up quite a bit of + & - ways of doing mods & repairs and will share their opinions on that.

If you are going with a larger aftermarket TB you will likely have idle issues with the 383 H/C build. Typically the IAC counts are maxed out (you will see this with your scan tool) but there are ways to resolve this so if/when you have that problem, post up and several will offer solution to that. FWIW a stock Throttle Body bored to 52mm is the most "plug & play" way but will also likely need the IAC hole enlarged very slightly.

On the emission stuff: Air Pump, just un-bolt it and remove the cross over pipe on the front of the engine and cap off the air valve holes on the exhaust manifolds. CAT removal, just weld in pipe where CATS were

Your build alone will require a PCM tune so deleting any emission stuff can be dealt with also with that new tune to keep the CEL from coming on. I would just keep the EGR function but you can delete if you want with a EGR block off plate.

Most run a 160 thermostat vs the stock 185 so the tune can be set up with more timing and the fans will be programmed to come on earlier as the engine temps will be lower than stock

If going EWP use a relay & fuse for it

Suggest you send your PCM in for a mail order tune based on what your motor specs will be along with gearing, TC stall, etc. Tuners have forms you fill out listing your set-up. That way first start up will go better and you will be able to drive the car.

I have always used Ed Wright out of Oklahoma (Fastchip) but there are others also. Having someone do it on a dyno will arguably net a little more power but mail order will work well and if there are any issues a scan tool will yield any info the tuner would need to make further adjustments.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Pac springs

Welcome to the forum. FWIW some of us have not had good luck with bee hive springs. I went back to a dual spring set-up after breaking one and having the valve hit the piston.
 

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#15 ·
BALLSS,

I can't explain how nice it is to find a forum and have people actually get on here and help out a fellow car guru. I have been building racing engines for 10 years now and this will finally be the first car I get to build. Pretty excited about it! Being that it is a DD I am wanted to get all the advice I can with do's and don'ts. Thank all you guys for chiming in.

So I plan to reach out to Lloyd on Monday to see what he can do for me and what kind of cost. I do want to keep the edelbrock stuff even if it isn't the best starting point. I wanted the AFR heads but couldn't reach out that far for them. I am originally from the DFW area and maybe I can just make a trip up to meet Lloyd in person.

Pretty excited to hear how easy it might be to get rid of this smog stuff. That stuff will definitely be going into the trash. If I can find a decent set of long tube header that don't break the bank then I will go that route from the beginning.

I have already been in contact with Keith from pcmforless and have actually been recommend to him from a good friend. Does anyone have any input on using them for mail order tunes for my impala?

I will definitely be using a relay and fused harness for the electric water pump. I just ordered the pump today.

The EGR system won't be used as I will be using my own custom valve covers with -8 an breather lines to individual catch cans for each bank to vent the crankcase properly.

The original mentioned throttle body I mentioned is just what my dad already had on the car and I'm not sure if I should keep it or not. If I need to go back to a stock style and bore it out I can do so. (I own a machine shop and love modifying or making things!!!) ;-)

What about good Cold Air intakes?
 
#19 ·
What about good Cold Air intakes?
The K&N FIPK kit is one option.

You might want to consider using a F-body MAF (larger) which will require tuning but that will all be done for several reasons with your build. PCM4less is who many use. I have never dealt with them but several members have

The F-body MAF is larger so whatever cold air intake you get may need some adjustments to connect it to the size plumbing the kit has

Pic below shows how I mounted mine with the K&N kit. I was able to lose the large rubber coupler that connects the tube & filter with this set up. Filter just goes over tube and is clamped using the large radiator stle screw clap that came with teh kit.The wide stainless clamp I got at Home Depot for a few $ to connect tube to MAF. The rubber intake elbow is also for a F-body. You will need a MAF wire harness extension if moving the MAF closer to TB. Innovative Wiring LLC is the place to get that. Gary makes great stuff. Consider his battery cables also.

AllenIDoxeLR8,

Does anyone have any first hand bad experience with any PAC beehive springs?

!
not PAC but Comp 918's I had broke at 20k mi. They were the spring Comp spec for my small XFI 466 cam

I went with the dual Lunati kit (pic) which I got from Lloyd. He does have opinions about not using bee hive springs so discuss with him

On heater and radiator hoses I just use standard black hoses. The Silicone ones are higher $ and if you like the look/color fine.
 

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#16 ·
AllenIDoxeLR8,

I have never had problems with the beehive springs but definitely don't use them much for customer builds at my shop. I had these brand new PAC laying around in the shop and checked them compared to what I think my cam specs may be and they show to work out perfectly with the right pressures at the IH and open height. I know they're a better design as in being lighter up top and paired with a titanium retainer they would be pretty awesome from what I was thinking. Does anyone have any first hand bad experience with any PAC beehive springs?

Thanks again for you input buddy!
 
#17 ·
I have also been up in the air about replacing all these old heater hoses and other rubber hoses with the nicer cylicone hoses. Has anyone messed with this at all?
 
#18 ·
I sir would like to chime in...I too have the edelbrock lt4 setup and I refer to it as nothing more than a stock lt4 setup from gmpp that has been pocket ported and gasket matched. I say this based on tons of research done on them way back in the day. What I discovered is that when GM decided to discontinue production of the GMPP lt4 top end kit, edelbrock purchased the castings, added their porting to em (gasket matching and valve bowls), and called em theirs.

Now, if you got the set at face value, then I hate to say you are way behind as far as $$$ go. If you got the complete set for a decent price (picked mine up on eBay brand new for $1150 shipped which included heads, cam, tb, manifold, gaskets, arp bolts, and a few other things the guy had with em), then they're a heck of a starting point based on my conversations with Lloyd.

Initially after discovering that they're replicas of the Gm castings, I tried to send them to AI for their lt4 treatment, but he wouldn't touch em because he didn't like that edelbrock stamp on em. After speaking to LE, he told me that they are a solid piece and that he can do some good work with em. I remember 207 cc being what he could port them to, and a -5cc piston being his recommendation. That's all I remember from he convo which was a few years back.

If you have no choice but to keep em, then go ahead and replace those crappy edelbrock springs. One of em gave up on the dyno and I have the valve imprint on the piston to prove it. Like mentioned before, they're a decent casting and will work well with the right cam (as with any head combo). I'm using these in my 377 build on another thread. Check out what I'm working with on that one. My build will be a little similar to yours.

One other thing that I remember now from the conversation with LE is this...he said that a 377 is about the max these heads in their stock form are good for. The extra 6 ci to a 383 would choke these heads out, which is why he suggested he port them to a 207cc. That's another reason I opted for a 377. These heads ain't worth the additional $2500 in port work, and $750-1000 more in block machine work and new pistons, and that's using hypers instead of forged.

If you're comfy with using them, then see em for what they're worth and know that you'll be leaving a solid 20-30 horses on the table compared to some LE1 or LE2 castings. If you're not happy, then I suggest you post them up for sale here and at the LS1 forums. If you lose money, take that as a lesson in peace of mind. If you break even or make a profit, then that's even better. Either way go with a LE or AI kit if you get em sold.
 
#20 ·
I will definitely be keeping the edelbrock top end but will most likely send it all the LE and call it done. Sounds like he's the way to go for this stuff. I will CC the intake runner myself and put them on the flow bench to see where they're at out of the box. I can usually improve heads quite a bit with just a good valve job and some bowl blending. I'm definitely not a professional head porter by all means but definitely feel I can improve the heads some and get the intake properly port matched to the heads. As long as LE is somewhat affordable then I will send it all to him and just focus on my shortblock and make sure everything else is sound from there.

I ordered the heads bare from Edelbrock and will be putting top of the line hollow stem SS Ferrea valves in them with a good set of springs. I believe I will be going with a dual BTR spring kit with titanium retainers. After a few guys chiming in already about issues with the beehive springs I feel I will stick with what we normally run here at my shop and just use a dual spring.

Thanks for chiming in. How soon do you think you'll have yours wrapped up?
 
#22 ·
Brian Tooley LT1 Spring kit

Yep, I went with the springs, TI locks and retainers. It has worked great so far. Seems to Rev easier/faster too,but that could be my imagination.
 
#23 ·
Yep, I went with the springs, TI locks and retainers. It has worked great so far. Seems to Rev easier/faster too,but that could be my imagination.
Yeah I look forwared to going that route. Brian Tooley is a large vendor of mine and he has quality products!
 
#24 ·
If you end up sending them off to LE, let him throw springs on there based on the cam that he and you decide upon. His pricing is very fair and cheaper than everywhere I found (obviously I'm not a dealer or anything).
 
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