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Clear Image Automotive catback system on Fleetwood

10K views 51 replies 8 participants last post by  schlicky13 
#1 ·
I'm trying to find anyone who's had a catback system from Clear Image Automotive installed on a Fleetwood.We're running into a little issue figuring out where to add the extra length. Dan said that he has sold his catback systems to a few Fleetwood owners, but never heard of any issues installing it. I am aware that an additional 6" needs to be added to accommodate the extra length of the D-body, but not sure where to add it.

It sounds like the ones he's sold to Fleetwood owners were his standard Impala catback, and then I assume whatever shop actually installed them just cut the intermediate pipes apart and added in the extra length and possibly a bend or two to make everything come out correctly. As I understand it, the exhaust system between the B and D body is exactly identical, except for the intermediate pipe (ignoring wagons, different tail pipes on those I think).

My initial thought was to just add the extra length at the end of the intermediate pipe before the muffler, but Dan said that would create an issue because his system is a little different than stock, and the mufflers are mounted at an angle, so adding extra length straight at the end of the intermediates would throw off the location of the mufflers.

His suggestion was to add the extra length to the hookup pipes, and because he wasn't certain of the exact length to add, was going to make them as two piece units with more length than I needed, and then the shop could figure out exactly what was needed and trim them back to fit perfectly.

At first I thought that would work, but I later realized that adding extra length to the hookup pipes would throw off the starting location of the intermediate pipes, losing access to the factory mounting points, and potentially also causing interference issues with the transmission cross-member, particularly on the drivers side.

So I'm hoping I can find someone who has had Dan's catback installed on a Fleetwood and can help us out or get us some pictures. Although I suppose worst case, I just have him leave the system alone and make it the same as he would for a B-body and then just have the shop that installs it deal with it.

As always, any info would be appreciated. Thank you.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Lookat Post #43 here:
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/36-fleetwood/244770-few-questions-2.html

You'll want the extended length stuck up front to retain orientation of everything aft starting from the muff inlet (especially the OTA which a real PITA with any 2 1/2". I believe the wb difference B v. D body is 5.6". An X- or H-pipe is the accustomed way to make up the difference, and pretty much mandatory for any install - for a number of reasons - offline torque and antidrone the biggest two.

The stock Cady muffs may be 19" long, and alotta aftermarket seem to hover in the 14-16" range. I don't see that causing much head-scratching if buying everything as an "SS kit" as I and others do/did.

I think Dan's thrown you good suggestions. Good luck.
 
#3 ·
His kit already incorporates a balance pipe, and he changes the mufflers to a center in/center out design for the 2.5" setup. I had asked about longer case mufflers but there are no other options for longer ones if I stick with the mufflers he offers. Adding the length to the cat delete pipes like he wants will create installation issues I believe, it has to be added to the intermediate pipes. I'm just hoping to find someone who has done his kit on a Fleetwood so I can find out where exactly they added the extra length. I think the only other thing Dan mentioned was make the balance pipe longer, but then it would be crazy long and he wasn't sure that was a good idea.
 
#4 ·
His kit already incorporates a balance pipe, and he changes the mufflers to a center in/center out design for the 2.5" setup.
Dan's 2-1/2" system is set up for offset/offset mufflers. The pictures on the website and the text are WRONG, as confirmed to me yesterday by Dan, after I had already bought center-outlet mufflers. Now I have a pair of useless 17748 turbo mufflers...
 
#5 ·
I'm not gonna be much help but here is my thread with pics
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/22-exhaust/280294-angelos-exhaust-thread.html

This is the part i would pay attention to in 96black post
(especially the OTA which a real PITA with any 2 1/2".

This is where i had the most pain.
Mine rubs on the sway bar when you hit a pothole.

It's hard to give advice, but get car on lift and look for the hard spots and easy spots to make alterations to the system and go from there.

-ALF out...
 
#7 ·
I don't know exactly what Dan does, but he claims on the website that he intentionally makes his OTA pipes differently than either the stock or the other aftermarket stuff out there so that the 2½" will fit easier. He can also supposedly do 3", but I don't foresee ever being at a point where I'd need that much exhaust flow. And I think with the 3" his site does say that clearance can be an issue, though I'd have to go back and read the listing on his site again to be sure of that.

The sway bar is interesting, don't think I've heard anyone mention hitting that with their exhaust. I did look at your thread and watch your video, and if you have a true Impala I'm thinking a part of your issue there may be the lower factory suspension (assuming it hasn't been lowered further with aftermarket parts). I suspect that would leave less room between the rear axle and the underside of the car.

If your car is a Caprice made to look like an SS and still has a stock height suspension, then I'd be a little more concerned since I think the stock Caprice and Roadmaster suspension has nearly the same ride height as the Fleetwood. And at this point, I really have no desire to lower my car, if anything I'd like to raise the rear up a tad, give it a little bit of a raked look.

I'll just have to see what I'm working with once Dan gets everything made and delivered to me. I used to have access to a car lift whenever I wanted, down at my dad's shop, but I'm not really talking to him anymore. Long story, one of those you can pick your friends but you can't pick your family deals, he's got his demons and until he's ready to work on that, I'm out. So I'm stuck working on everything in my driveway on jack stands.

Maybe while I'm waiting on Dan's stuff I'll get ambitious and finish stripping the junk car in my garage and get rid of it. It's a little cramped in there, especially with such a big car, but at least then I can work inside in the A/C. :grin2:

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and input so far. And perhaps we'll get lucky and after guinea pigging this thing with me, Dan will have the specs to make a perfect catback system for the Fleetwoods.
 
#8 ·
Hi,
Yes mine is an SS WX3 in my sig.....
Since were bench racin' this is my thinkin'
the Pypes-X bends up to tuck the muffs close to the body. I would have cut the pipe there and rotated it so the tuck would
move the muffs closer to outside of the body when attached, if you get me....

That way they could bolt muffs to x-pipe and to OTA on the other end. Hence getting the OTA's installed so they don't hit anything.
My guys had limited tools so they welded muffs at an angle to the end of the x-pipe and at the OTA end so the muffs aren't actually slipped onto any pipe at either end. Sucks, but when you mix and match parts like i did that's what you get.
Not to mention my muffs are center out/in and this car is made for offset muffs, which i could have gotten, but more $$$.

I suspect you will have a better fitment due to length is your issue and not pipe position.
I think you should bolt in the x-pipe, position the OTA's so they hit nothing and build the middle around that, but that is not an easy thing to do with you in Iowa and Dan in WA.

Good Luck.
-ALF out...
 
#10 ·
Spoke with Dan on the phone again the other day, he's been great to deal with throughout this. He's going to add the length at the front of the intermediate pipes. I still think adding it to end of the intermediates would be better, but with the way his system is designed and without a car on hand to test fit and measure stuff, he has no means of figuring out exactly how to make it that way, short of doing some trigonometry and hoping for the best.

He did say that at least where the intermediates attach to the hookups/cats, you pretty much have to abandon the factory mounts. He said way back when he started he used to try and make it so you could reuse those, but it was just to difficult. Makes me really wish I still had access to a machine shop with a CNC, I could sort that problem out in a couple hours.

After looking through the "Clear Image Exhaust install at MVP Automotive" thread and looking at the pictures, I have a new concern though. Seeing how tight the balance pipe is to the driveshaft, it makes me wonder if pushing that back 6" will cause it to make contact with the driveshaft as it gets lower on the way to the rearend. I know the D-bodies are stretched in that area, and as a result have a longer driveshaft than the B-body, so it may work out, but I feel like this is going to be a wait until I actually get it and see what happens situation. Worst case, I can always remove the extra length from the front end, and have the shop add it to the back end.

I also questioned him on clearance with his OTA pipes and he was very confident that there won't be any issue with his system. He reiterated that how he makes his catback alters the routing a little bit, and even in his personal, lowered B-body he has no trouble fitting his 3" system, let alone the 2½". And with the additional height of the D-body suspension setup, I should have loads of room between the rear axle and the underbody.

So for now, I think things are pretty well set, I just need to wait for everything to arrive. He did say that stuff was starting to come in to his shop for my order and that he'd send me some pics, so I might post those up when I get them.
 
#11 ·
Just a little update, I haven't forgotten or abandoned this project, however I also haven't gotten anything I've paid for yet. I placed the order (and paid) for the headers and catback system back in late May and still haven't received a thing. Getting in touch with Dan is like pulling teeth. He never answers his phone, and lately his voicemail is always full so I can't leave messages, but I can sometimes get him to respond to emails. Shortly after placing the order when I was still having a few questions about resolving the added length for the Fleetwood, he did mention that something was backordered on his end, (flanges for the headers I think?, can't remember now) so that was going to delay it some. I didn't have a problem with that, but this has gotten kind of ridiculous, it's been nearly 3 months.

I last heard from him about a month ago, (after I called and emailed a bunch of times) and supposedly the catback was done except for welding on the tips, and he was going to ship that out right away because he said he didn't want it taking up space in his shop, and that he was still working on the headers due to the backordered pieces, (but that he did have them finally). I've begun trying to contact him again, but being the weekend I don't expect to hear anything until tomorrow at the earliest. When I've talked to him on the phone he seemed very nice and helpful and answered all my questions, but I'm definitely starting to get upset with him. I've haven't reached full on panic mode, yet, but just thought if anyone is thinking of ordering from him, this information may be helpful.

In the end I hope the long wait will be worth it, but he originally quoted me 3 weeks to make everything (and granted I expected another couple weeks once he made me aware of the back order), but 3 months is entirely unacceptable. I'd be less upset if he'd kept me informed, an update once every couple weeks or something would help greatly, (which he actually said he was going to do occasionally at the start of this anyways, but so far hasn't), just so I know I haven't been forgotten or that he hasn't taken my money and run. I know he mostly has a good reputation on here, and I'm trying hard not to lose my cool with him, but he's beginning to test even my limits.
 
#12 ·
I hear ya, but i think you're just gonna have to wait.
He's on FB, so maybe he's posting with a phone.

I highly doubt you have anything to worry about AFA the purchase, it's just a timing issue.
Hang in there man !
-ALF out...
 
#13 ·
He emailed me back already tonight, said he's still waiting on cat converters. I kind of flipped out a little at that because my system doesn't include cats, I ordered the cat delete/hookup pipes. I emailed him back and I tried to be civil, but there were some other inconsistencies. I hope you're right and that I just need to hold on a little longer, and I'll see what I hear back from him, but this is starting to aggravate me. And it turns out, it was the collectors that were supposedly backordered, found that when I went back through our most recent email chain, but he was supposed to have those in hand mid-July and that was the last thing he told me he was waiting on. For what it's worth, I recognize quality when I see it, so if his stuff is as good everyone on here leads me to believe, I'll be back on here at some point singing his praises. But for now, I'm gonna have a drink, watch the last half of the Cubs game and try to chill out a little.
 
#14 ·
He responded again last night, part of the issue (he says) is that he had me confused with another customer who had a similar order, but with cats, whereas mine is without cats. He said he'll ship the catback system tomorrow, it was done but thought I wanted him to wait until everything was ready. Now for the part I'm having a hard time with, he said the collectors for the headers are expected to be delivered to him tomorrow and then he can finish up the headers, send them out for ceramic coating and possibly ship them by the end of the week. However that's basically the exact same thing he told me a month ago. So, yeah, we'll see. :|
 
#15 ·
Research...

You may want to do a little research on this forum of other's experiences.

May things work to your advantage in getting what you want and in a timely manner.

Richard Snipes
4501 Safari in Jax, FL
 
#17 ·
I actually did finally finish it a couple days ago, well I'd say it's 98% done anyways. Just a couple little things to finalize and tweak yet. I finally got everything delivered a couple weeks or so ago, and spent the last week-ish installing it. So it ended up being well over 3 months for it to be completed and delivered due to, reasons, I guess, don't really want to get into it. Suffice it to say, I had to become a bit of a jerk to get results, which is uncommon for me and I don't enjoy doing that, but I have it now and for what it's worth I can say that Dan does excellent work. I'm very happy with the quality of the stuff, and being I ordered everything in stainless I was curious to see his welds (I have limited experience and kind of suck at it yet myself, but I know enough to tell a good weld from a bad one) and his are top-notch, great color, penetration, etc, and was properly back-gassed.

I did the headers first, driver side is a breeze, passenger side is a royal PITA!!! I suppose it could have been worse, but, yeah, there was a lot of cussing involved. I was a little surprised that there are no provisions for the two alternator brackets that attach to the head on that side, but I worked that out and will post pics when I get a chance. Basically the short one up front would normally need to be deleted because both heads have double bolt holes at the front and rear, and the factory manifolds use the outer holes, headers use the inner holes. And the longer one that attaches near the middle of the head, runs smack into one of the primary tubes. I was a little befuddled by that one, it'd be easy-ish enough to make the headers in a way that the bracket would clear, and after discovering this and doing some research on here I found that the Gen1 tri-y's do have the required bend in the pipe to fit that bracket, but for some reason he deleted that on the Gen2's. And being the stubborn mule that I am, I worked out a relatively simple solution to retain both of those brackets with minimal doinking around.

Other than that, once I figured out which pieces went where (there were a couple I didn't figure out until I started installing a few things and could then see what I needed and where) I was pretty easy and straightforward. Dan was fairly adamant that he wanted the system professionally installed and welded together, which I told him I would, and I totally didn't. My bad, never had any intention of going that route, I have my reasons, but I went above and beyond to ensure that it was installed well. Basically since my system is 100% stainless, I used all stainless hardware everywhere (with only 2 small exceptions that I hope to rectify at a later time) and it came out pretty darn good. I ordered a buttload of stainless steel lap band clamps from a local parts store (they were Walker/Tenneco Mega Clamps, made in the USA, I'll lookup the part number when I post about the install) and it allowed me to continually adjust and tweak things as I went until it all fit perfectly. First test-fire the only issue I had was one of the resonators popped off the OTA pipe, I forgot to tighten down that one clamp. And when I lowered the vehicle, everything cleared the rear axle perfectly on the first try, so apparently I rule. ;-)

And the sound? Oh my, the sound is angelic, music to my ears, it's phenomenal. :grin2::grin2::grin2:
I opted for the extra insulating material in the mufflers (he uses SpinTech) and also kept resonators (he uses MagnaFlows) because I wanted it quiet-ish, since it's still a daily driver and it's dead quiet at idle but with a noticeable deep, rumbling burble, and it's audible but not obnoxious under normal driving, but when you stomp on it, good god is it epic. There are a couple brief spots low in the rpm range where I get a little drone, but it isn't annoying and I'm thinking some dynamat will cure that, probably the trunk for sure since it sounds like it's occurring at the far rear of the car. Anyways, that's all the pertinent info for now I think, and I'll get a few more pics when I finish the last of my tweaks to the install and put up a full post with my workarounds for the issues I encountered.
 
#18 ·
Oh, and one really bizarre issue I ran into that I forgot about was with the overall length of the system. When I originally contacted Dan and started asking questions and was getting my ducks in a row before ordering I brought up the issue of the Fleetwood being longer than the B-bodies and that the catback requires a roughly 6" extension. That was news to him, he said he'd sold his system to other Fleetwood owners before and never had any issues from them about it not fitting or needing extra length put in. I did some research on here and put up this post inquiring about others experience with his system on a Fleetwood and the consensus was that extra length would be needed. So I chalked up his having never heard of it to the installers just dealing with the issue and the info never made it back to him.

He did a little looking at his system and after a few pics and emails between us he found a convenient location that he could make an extension on both sides that could then be cut to whatever length I needed to make it work. In the end, I cut off over half of one of the extensions as I only needed about 4" to connect that side (actually less, but once you count the length going into the coupler), and could have gotten away with less if I'd loosened up some connections and slid the pipes back out a little, and the other side I never even used the extension. I slid one pipe back out of it's coupler a tiny bit and had enough at the other to connect it.

I suspect that I could still use a short piece of the leftover extension, or delete the other extension if I made some adjustments, but it'd be really close either way. My balance pipe is a hair off center I think, it's centered at the front, but by the rear of it when it connects to the muffler it's off to one side by a half inch or so, maybe an inch, which over that entire length isn't bad. And everything else basically came out fine, but if I really wanted that perfect, it'd be adding in the one extension or deleting the other. Now that it's installed and the car is driveable with it, I could always take it in to a good muffler shop and have them fiddle with it and get everything perfect, but I've got it dang close already, so we'll see. So I guess if you're planning on putting this system on a Fleetwood, your guess is as good as mine right now as to whether extending the system is actually required.

If I can ever come up with a definitive answer on that, I'll post it and maybe at some point drop Dan a line and see if he has any theories or things I can check to figure out the best way for him to approach it in the future.
 
#19 ·
...Oh, and one really bizarre issue I ran into that I forgot about was with the overall length of the system. When I originally contacted Dan and started asking questions and was getting my ducks in a row before ordering I brought up the issue of the Fleetwood being longer than the B-bodies and that the catback requires a roughly 6" extension. That was news to him, he said he'd sold his system to other Fleetwood owners before and never had any issues from them about it not fitting or needing extra length put in.

.....So I guess if you're planning on putting this system on a Fleetwood, your guess is as good as mine right now as to whether extending the system is actually required.....
Kudos on detailed write-up, and yah bring on the pics! But unless addressing some exceptional detail or concern I'm not catching, most Fleetwood'ers find the added wheelbase is typically (and amply) accommodated simply incorporating an H- or X- pipe into a regular B-body catback setup. I guess it could get to be a sort of stacking issue if you're using one of those fancy 3' long pre-welded X- assemblies, and less room to finagle the transition out of the cats and the section entering the muffs. I just handed the muff shop a $25 Summit H- kit together with a Hooker Aero catback and everything went together slick as snot.



I was a little surprised that there are no provisions for the two alternator brackets that attach to the head on that side, but I worked that out and will post pics when I get a chance. Basically the short one up front would normally need to be deleted because both heads have double bolt holes at the front and rear, and the factory manifolds use the outer holes, headers use the inner holes. And the longer one that attaches near the middle of the head, runs smack into one of the primary tubes. I was a little befuddled by that one, it'd be easy-ish enough to make the headers in a way that the bracket would clear, ...
I easily reconnected the forward brace just using the original hole, headed stud, spacer and a few more flats for perfect alignment. I saw I could get the rearward brace back on with a bend or such, but was unenthused trying.


I opted for the extra insulating material in the mufflers (he uses SpinTech)...
That made me flinch. I shy away from muffs designed with any sort of erodible packing as it seems a perpetually losing war to keep the fiberglass shards intact and as effective/quiet as when new. The impact is even greater with a part I don't want to have to consider replacing during the 12-15 year life of the system.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Copy all. I certainly would not be suggesting a second crossover if there's already a balance built in there somewhere. On the built-in crossover with extensions and such it just sounds like an expensive and elaborate "solution" to a detail which has never presented a problem in the past. Maybe the pics will show the advantage of Dan's approach.

Nice to hear (for your sake) there may be no "glasspak material" in your muffs after all. lol Chambered/baffled seems to me the only way to assure the same performance and sound as the day you installed everything new. Spin Techs have been associated for so many years with kids hunting for "a big honking 3 inch with dumps before the axle" and "sounds just like open pipes" that I'd be glad to hear they also have products striving for performance but with near oem db's.

//schlicky13//
"And in any case, by not welding anything or using guillotine clamps that would have wrecked the pipes, I can easily remove them at any time and put in different mufflers of my choice if I ever do have issues with them." //schlicky13//

Interesting. Backed up with anti-seize perhaps? If there's enough room fore and aft of the muffs for those wide clamps then this sounds pretty slick for future change-outs indeed.

Finally, without going back to read, did you end up with all 2 1/2"? 2 1/2" in and 2 1/4" out?
 
#23 ·
Copy all. I certainly would not be suggesting a second crossover if there's already a balance built in there somewhere. On the built-in crossover with extensions and such it just sounds like an expensive and elaborate "solution" to a detail which has never presented a problem in the past. Maybe the pics will show the advantage of Dan's approach.
Yeah it wasn't something I really expected. Dan swore I wouldn't need to add length, various forum members swore I would, and in practice both sides turned out to be kind of correct. It was weird, and yeah I'll see if I can get some pics soon. I've got plans most of the weekend now and it's been rainy anyways, so perhaps next week.

Nice to hear (for your sake) there may be no "glasspak material" in your muffs after all. lol Chambered/baffled seems to me the only way to assure the same performance and sound as the day you installed everything new. Spin Techs have been associated for so many years with kids hunting for "a big honking 3 inch with dumps before the axle" and "sounds just like open pipes" that I'd be glad to hear they also have products striving for performance but with near oem db's.
I would have preferred an even longer muffler case, basically the same length as stock, but it simply wasn't available. At least not from that company and/or Dan. Even though, the sound is quite good and not obnoxious at all, but I may do a little dynamatting in the future to get just a hair less volume in the cabin. But it's well within acceptable parameters, and I've certainly driven worse things in my time. And I don't know if they come this way, or if Dan modifies them, but they have hangers welded right on them so they hook right into the factory rubber hangers just like OEM mufflers. One of the many things with the setup that made it mostly a breeze to install.

Interesting. Backed up with anti-seize perhaps? If there's enough room fore and aft of the muffs for those wide clamps then this sounds pretty slick for future change-outs indeed.

Finally, without going back to read, did you end up with all 2 1/2"? 2 1/2" in and 2 1/4" out?
I tend to put antiseize on everything, and I'm definitely one those, "if a dab will do ya, then clearly a gallon is better" kind of guys, but other than the header bolts I didn't use any. But every single thing is stainless and it will no longer be driven in winter, so I don't really anticipate corrosion problems, so we'll see what happens. But I have enough other things to do under the car in the coming months and year or so, so I'll be able to monitor it and I can always coat the bolt threads at any time if I feel it needs it. I've also noticed that on exhaust components, it tends to burn most of it off anyways, but perhaps by deleting the cats I won't be sending nearly as much heat downstream as before, because those things definitely get hot.

There was definitely plenty of room for the clamps, the only place it got a little tight was the one extension I used because of how short I had to cut it, you'll know what I'm talking about once I can take pictures.

The only thing I wish (and it may exist but I just didn't find it) would be the same clamps I used, but mirror image. They worked great on one side of the exhaust, but on the other I was occasionally running into stuff and had to rotate them into weird positions to get them to clear everything. One or two are a little tricky to tighten and loosen, but with the right wrench and a little patience, they're all accessible. I may research the clamps though and if there are mirror image versions, I might end up swapping a few of them out.

And 100% 2½", not a single thing is less than that. Except the tips, they might be 3".
 
#24 ·
So far I'm loving the exhaust. I'm still fighting with photobucket though when uploading the photos, apparently it doesn't like it when I try to upload 50 pics at once, or even a half dozen for that matter. I'll keep working at it though and a full write up will get posted eventually when I have the time. I did have the car back up for a few little tweaks and adjustments, but haven't really had any issues so far. And the trans acting up actually makes it more hilarious to drive, if I go like a hooligan from the start, it winds out in 1st and sounds great, but since 2nd is missing I have to pretty much completely let off the throttle so it'll shift to 3rd, at which point it barks and cackles through the headers until completing the shift. I've turned a few heads already doing that, and most people keep looking around trying to find the muscle car making that sound while completely ignoring my big ol' Caddy.
 
#25 ·
I think it's about dang time I finally upload some pics. Let's start with pre-install: big box o' stuff. It's like a jigsaw puzzle for men. Also one of the headers and cat delete pipes. Everything is stainless steel, including the headers, all 2½". I also had the headers ceramic coated in black, for looks (I wanted stealthy, they aren't obvious when you pop the hood) and increased protection to the surrounding components from heat. I will say this, don't have Dan ceramic coat your headers. It isn't his fault, he uses a company near where he is, likely out of convenience, but later research on this forum revealed that they aren't any good. Which would explain why they're already starting to peel and flake after only being in there just over 3 months, with no dyno pulls, no racing, just daily driving and an occasional heavy foot.

Do your own research, but the info is elsewhere on this forum, there's a much better place to send headers to for ceramic coating. Had I known that, I would have ordered them bare, and sent them out. Again, not a criticism of Dan, his work is very high quality, the ceramic coating is done by a 3rd party and they apparently aren't very good at it. I can live with it for now, and since they're stainless I don't need to worry about them rusting, but at some point I'll have to pull them and send 'em out to be redone at my expense if I want it done correctly. Just giving anyone thinking about doing it a heads up. Anyways enough of my rambling, on to more pictures.
 

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#26 ·
Laying stuff out, figuring out where it goes, and getting some stuff out. I was trying to figure out how everything went together and lay it out, didn't get it right the first time, obviously. Not sure if I took another pic after I sorted that out. The over the axle pipes are flipped around 180° as well as the short bends. Where I stuck that stuff into the inlet side of the resonators, should have been in the outlet side of the mufflers. It was obvious once I actually started mounting stuff under the car. I had the headers and cat delete pipes in first, and then started working my way back, but I think that ultimately failed, so I started at the other end and worked my way forward to the cat deletes, that worked much better, for me at least.

Fun fact, at least on the driver side you can pull the manifold and cat out as a whole assembly. You can leave the O2 sensor in, since they're a pain to remove, but it would be easier with it out. Also recommend you remove the back two spark plugs. You don't absolutely have to, but if you slip and drop this thing on one of them you'd probably snap them off. Just pull it out the top, you'll need to twist it and wiggle it and curse like a sailor, but it'll come right out. Don't know if you can also do this on the passenger side, because due to previously attempting to disassemble and breaking two of the three studs that hold the manifold to the cat, it was easier to just remove the one remaining nut and take them out separately.
 

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#27 ·
Ah that gorgeous balance pipe, thing of beauty. You can see the extensions Dan added in for the Fleetwood application, still undecided how necessary they are. Ended up not using the extra piece at all, and on the other side where he separated and extended, I cut most of it off. I suspect that if you just don't seat all the pipes all the way in as you go along, you can pick up enough extra length that no added length is needed. I have pics of it under the car, they'll get added here shortly.

And a closeup of the muffler and resonator. Mufflers are from Spintech, although I thought I heard recently that he's making his own mufflers in house now. And the resonators are Magnaflows that he adds the tips and hangers onto.
 

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#28 ·
Driver side header installed. Never took a pic of the passenger side. Nothing special though, but as has been previously covered elsewhere you do need to bend the oil dipstick tube slightly, and the AC lines some. Dipstick tube was no problem, AC lines were a little trickier, still not sure I like where I have them. The outer silver heat shield is very lightly touching the headers and also the upper control arm, so I don't really think it can go anywhere else. I bought some additional heat shielding on ebay to wrap around it if I think it's an issue, but other than some slight discoloration I haven't noticed any problems with it.

From underneath, nothing to really see there. I have some later pics showing where I zip-tied wires so they'd be out of harms way from the headers.
 

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#29 · (Edited)
On the passenger side header, there's also the issue of the alternator brackets. Debate all you want, but I opted to retain them. The current (2nd) generation of the tri-y headers don't allow clearance for the bracket that attaches in the middle of the manifold/header so I came up with a workaround. A package of mending braces from a hardware store, 2" x ½" I believe. Clearanced the holes so the bolts would fit through, and rounded the corners off so you won't slice your hand when you're in there working on other stuff. Also needed a short piece of threaded rod, a bolt, some washers and nuts.

Got everything but the braces at menards and got all stainless. They have short pieces of stainless threaded rod, in 1" increments, I think I used 3" but it's been a few months and don't remember off the top of my head. Run the threaded rod into the head until it's all the way in, used a couple of the original cast iron spacers (although I found chrome plated spacers in all different lengths at menards also, so I can dress it up a little, just haven't swapped those on yet). I played around a lot with different combinations of spacers, braces and washers until I found the right amount to get the bracket to line up almost perfectly with its spot on the alternator. Put on two braces and secure with a nut, but leave a little loose until done. I also used lock washers behind each nut.

Rotate the braces up so you can slip the bolt in from the back of the bracket with a couple washers on either side, then the two braces and a nut. Rotate things so that the bracket lines up with the alternator correctly and tighten everything up. Ultimately it's worked well, has stayed tight and secure, but it was a royal PITA to get this together. Requires a lot of patience and dexterity. In the end, it fits perfectly, the bracket is properly lined up and secure and nothing is making any contact with any portion of the headers. Only think I might do is paint those braces so they don't rust. They are zinc plated, but after drilling and grinding on them some bare metal is exposed and will probably rust over time.
 

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#30 · (Edited)
There is also some grinding to do at the other end of the bracket. Because I raised it up at the other end to avoid making contact with the primary tube it goes over, it doesn't sit flat at the alternator mount anymore. Grinding down both sides a little bit at the appropriate angle takes care of that fairly quickly if you have a good grinding tool.

For the other bracket, another threaded rod into the head, three of the original spacers, one of which has to be ground down a little on one side to clear the header flange, and I also had to remove a little bit of the gasket frame (I used the good Earls gaskets) but not enough that it'll cause any issues. And everything clears, stick the bracket on and secure it with a nut, but don't tighten. I think I also used a lock washer on there. It doesn't quite line up perfectly with the back of the alternator, but it's close, close enough that you can install that back bolt, and then tighten the nut. I have bunch of spacers to play around with now so I plan to mess with it more when it warms back up so I can get it perfect.

I think that's it for the headers, I think the only other issue I ran into was plugs on the driver side. For the life of me I couldn't get one or both of the back ones started, so I ended up unbolting the header, putting those plugs in and then reinstalling the header. You can definitely get a socket on them to remove, but for some reason I couldn't get them started, it was probably just me though. Also there's some other tight spots on the passenger side. There's a metal bracket with a bundle of wires attached to them, I bent it back some and maybe even unbolted it to slip the headers down into place, it was snug. And I retained my EGR system so that had to be hooked up. Basically the same as hooking up to the factory manifold, so if you've done it, you know just how much that sucks.
 

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#31 ·
These are a cool thing I found. I used them to attach the exhaust to the original bracket after the cats and before the transmission crossmember. I don't know if it was strictly needed or not, but there's otherwise no support from the heads to the hangers on the muffler. I found them on ebay, they come in a variety of sizes. I think they're actually sold by summit, or jegs, or both. I forget who I actually got them from. One side worked well with the middle hole, and the other side used the end hole. Needed a spacer on one, and added a nut to one where it should have threaded into the bracket, but I had standard thread stuff on hand and that hole was metric. It threaded in fine because it was really close, but smaller in diameter so it wasn't very secure so that was why I added the nut behind it.
 

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#33 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the pics

Wow that looks to nice to install, Dan does great work, but pricey. I bought lots of Headers from Dan, all are top notch stuff.

Here is my set up going on my Fleetwood Project, Ceramic coated Flowtech's and custom made with 2.5 inch high flow cats which will hook up to a 2.5inch Pipes X pipe, then 2.5 inch Pipes Street Pro Mufflers.
I have installed lots of Flowtechs over the years and they all leak eventually at the 3 inch/3 bolt flange connection, so I cut off the flange, got a 3 inch to 2.5 inch cone reducer and some cheap cats with O2s bungs already installed.
With the extra pipe needed for Fleetwood, it may work out somewhat close and easy to install the Pypes X pipe.

Where you at in Iowa? We have a family farm near Knoxville?
 

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