Racetronix kit on a Fleetwood, aka - I'm dumb - Chevy Impala SS Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-12-2017, 06:33 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
schlicky13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Iowa
Posts: 186
 
Garage
Racetronix kit on a Fleetwood, aka - I'm dumb

Sometimes I'm a real idiot. I ordered the Racetronix kit a couple weeks ago, dropped the tank last night and pulled out the pump assembly and set about tearing it down and began installing the racetronix parts. Didn't take me long to discover that the Fleetwood is different from the other B-bodies (imagine that). The Fleetwood uses 4 wires in its harness both in and out of the tank, while the B-bodies only use 3. There's the 12v for the pump, the purple wire for the fuel gauge and a common ground for the pump and sending unit, but on the Fleetwood GM in all of their infinite wisdom decided to separate the grounds for the pump and sending unit thus resulting in the 4-wire setup.

Between google and this forum I've come across a few other people who ran into the same problem, but I haven't found any confirmed solutions yet. Has anyone ever actually conquered this? Obviously I could just use the combined B-body/Racetronix grounds and modify their out of tank harness with a 4-pin weather pack connector so that it'll connect to the Fleetwood harness. But GM had to have had a reason for separating the grounds, right? Or I could track down some other little odds and ends and fully mod the harness to recreate the original 4-wire setup. Or I could maybe contact Racetronix and see if I can talk them into making a Fleetwood specific in-tank and outside harness.

Upon searching into this I vaguely recalled having read this stuff a couple years ago when I first started planning out my upgrades, but apparently I forgot about this. I love my Fleetwood, but sometimes I really freaking hate it.

Something witty.
schlicky13 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-12-2017, 08:51 AM
Senior Member
 
4DoorSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Beautiful Chester County, PA
Posts: 7,103
 
Not a Fleetwood guy, but Ground is Ground. Couldn't the 2 Grounds just be spliced together and combined into 1 ground? Without a schematic, that is what I'm "thinking" but maybe someone else could provide some details.

================================================== =============


'95 Caprice SS conversion - Bonny Buckets - 96 Column, Shifter and Console - 3.73 Gear and Herter tune - Z/28 Cluster - Blazer OH Console - Green/Pink bushings - Chromed Impala Wheels - Eibach Springs and Bilstein Shocks - Corvette Engine Dress - the list goes on and still more to do...it never ends.
4DoorSS is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-12-2017, 08:57 AM
Senior Member
 
Fred Kiehl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Largo, FL 33774
Posts: 9,955
 
I solder my fuel pumps in, so I never have an issue with wiring.

1991 OCC 461 (.030 over 454) BBC, 3.23 posi, flash to pass, drop spindles & springs, Impala rims, Recaros, MOMO/wood SW w/QR, custom wood shift knob, Pioneer DEH P77DH
1992 OCC now with 5.7 tbi, DEH P77DH
For a parts list, check http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...ion-parts.html
Fred Kiehl is offline  
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-12-2017, 11:50 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 6,337
 
Seems To Be Recurring Item

You're welcome to pour over these for insights:
Take a look a this fuel pump!
Anyone install the Racetronix pump and harness kit?

I did not use Racetronix, but used Spectra and Airtex for pump, harness and sender. I had heard before the 4th wire is connected with FW's different sender, but can't find it confirmed in print. In any case all my parts plugged together fine.

I've heard on posts RT is not so communicative at times, but until you get reply confirmation of what's up, as long as you bought parts listed specifically by them for a FW then I expect they think the "splicing grounds" approach will work.

\'96SS SOB: SSRI, Herter Tune, Tri-Y II, SLP SS, 3000 Edge, F/HO bars, METCO extendeds and CV MMC, Bilsteins, currently Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta (315/35 rear)
\'96FWB BUW-Butt Ugly White: SS Bars, METCO LCAs, Koni Reds, PowerTrax No-Slip

Last edited by 96 Black; 06-12-2017 at 11:55 AM.
96 Black is offline  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-14-2017, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
schlicky13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Iowa
Posts: 186
 
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 96 Black View Post
You're welcome to pour over these for insights:
Take a look a this fuel pump!
Anyone install the Racetronix pump and harness kit?

I did not use Racetronix, but used Spectra and Airtex for pump, harness and sender. I had heard before the 4th wire is connected with FW's different sender, but can't find it confirmed in print. In any case all my parts plugged together fine.

I've heard on posts RT is not so communicative at times, but until you get reply confirmation of what's up, as long as you bought parts listed specifically by them for a FW then I expect they think the "splicing grounds" approach will work.
First off, there is no Fleetwood specific kit from them and I never made any mention of it. I was under the impression it would be a straight install and go in like on the B-body. That was my fault, should have looked into it a little more carefully before I ordered. I may have still ordered it, but would have had my ducks all lined up ahead instead of having to leave the Caddy in the driveway up on jack stands for a good week while I figure this out.

As for just combining the grounds, it seems like it would work? But I haven't found any definitive answer why GM did it, best I can figure (and this comes from a comment on either one of the threads I found or one of the ones you mentioned) that it could be due to the Cadillac having a digital fuel gauge, so perhaps they isolated the circuit for some reason because of it being digital? Again, not sure, but I think I've nearly got it all sorted out, I just need to order some stuff. Since I have this all laid out on my bench anyways, I'll probably take pics of the mods I make to the Racetronix harness so anyone can do it on their Fleetwood in the future. The in tank is easy to fix, the parts stores all sell replacement in-tank harness that are just all the individual wires and the connectors in separate pieces and you put together what you need from it. I'll rob the 1 wire I need from it (fortunately it's cheap and it's just the ground for the fuel gauge) and add that to the in-tank harness from Racetronix.

And also yes, I haven't gotten so much as a peep out of Racetronix. I'm also not impressed by them. But I really thought this would be a simple install, just follow the detailed write-up that's already on here. FYI, as of 2017 they still list their kit as coming with a Walbro pump, but it still comes with the Turbine Tech pump that they switched to some years ago. I thought I'd read somewhere that they switched back to the Walbro after customer complaints and issues with the other pump, but apparently not. Also, if you have any insight into this Turbine Tech thing, I'm all ears. I haven't found any confirmed reports of the pumps failing yet, and what they describe is that it's a turbine pump rather than a gear pump which reduces noise but provides the same flow rates, pressures, etc, and supposedly has a decent service life.

But it's a brand I've never heard of outside of members on here finding out that it's what comes in the kit instead of the Walbro. And after how many years now Racetronix still hasn't found it necessary to update the listing on their website to reflect what actually comes in the kit, leads me to believe that they are perfectly happy to deceive their customers. There's one thread in particular I've read through on here where it was obvious that customer support is not their thing, but again, I thought it'd be simple and it made the upgrade a lot easier than trying to put together something myself. We'll see I guess, and at least I can put together a detailed write up on how to put the kit into a D-body. And I might put up a few pics later so I can better explain what I'm looking at and what I'm thinking of doing to correct it. It's just a matter of tracking down the various connectors and pins and terminals I need, although I may have shortcuts to most of it at this point that may eliminate the need to solder anything except maybe one wire.

Something witty.
schlicky13 is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-14-2017, 08:22 PM
Senior Member
 
Fred Kiehl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Largo, FL 33774
Posts: 9,955
 
The two grounds may be there to make it easier to diagnose issues in the tank. You would be able to determine if you have a ground fault for one or the other separately. You can also determine which part fails vs. pulling the tank for one and finding it is the other.

1991 OCC 461 (.030 over 454) BBC, 3.23 posi, flash to pass, drop spindles & springs, Impala rims, Recaros, MOMO/wood SW w/QR, custom wood shift knob, Pioneer DEH P77DH
1992 OCC now with 5.7 tbi, DEH P77DH
For a parts list, check http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...ion-parts.html
Fred Kiehl is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-14-2017, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
schlicky13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Iowa
Posts: 186
 
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Kiehl View Post
The two grounds may be there to make it easier to diagnose issues in the tank. You would be able to determine if you have a ground fault for one or the other separately. You can also determine which part fails vs. pulling the tank for one and finding it is the other.
That's a possibility I suppose, but if the ground wire failed, wouldn't both the pump and gauge stop working on the B-body? Still pointing you in the direction of what went wrong?

Also I found another piece of the puzzle, the connector that attaches to the outside portion of the bulkhead connector from Racetronix has been elusive, but some digging on Mouser.com has led me to believe that it is a Metri-Pack 150.2 4-way connector, so now I know what terminals I need to populate the missing 4th terminal on this kit.

Something witty.
schlicky13 is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
schlicky13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Iowa
Posts: 186
 
Garage
I wonder if there would be a market for D-body modded Racetronix kits? Aside from a couple of the tools, it won't cost much to modify it to work on the Fleetwood in a way that retains the factory dual ground wires. Basically it's going to come down to a metripack 150 female terminal, a couple weatherpack flat 4-way connectors (male and female), some weatherpack terminals (male and female) and some txl wire (black w/ white stripe if I want to retain factory color scheme).

And that's basically it, just need to determine what gauges of everything yet, and a few tools. Crimping tool(s) for weatherpack and metripack 150 terminals, metripack and weatherpack terminal removal tools, and maybe a decent wire stripper tool. It wasn't a planned part of this mod, but in the end I shouldn't have more than $50, maybe $60 into everything, and most of that is the tools. Hell at that point I could even build the entire Ractronix harness from scratch, if I were inclined.

Something witty.
schlicky13 is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 08:30 AM
Senior Member
 
4DoorSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Beautiful Chester County, PA
Posts: 7,103
 
[QUOTE=schlicky13;11990170]

As for just combining the grounds, it seems like it would work? But I haven't found any definitive answer why GM did it, best I can figure (and this comes from a comment on either one of the threads I found or one of the ones you mentioned) that it could be due to the Cadillac having a digital fuel gauge, so perhaps they isolated the circuit for some reason because of it being digital? Again, not sure, but I think I've nearly got it all sorted out, I just need to order some stuff. Since I have this all laid out on my bench anyways, I'll probably take pics of the mods I make to the Racetronix harness so anyone can do it on their Fleetwood in the future. The in tank is easy to fix, the parts stores all sell replacement in-tank harness that are just all the individual wires and the connectors in separate pieces and you put together what you need from it. I'll rob the 1 wire I need from it (fortunately it's cheap and it's just the ground for the fuel gauge) and add that to the in-tank harness from Racetronix.

And also yes, I haven't gotten so much as a peep out of Racetronix. I'm also not impressed by them. But I really thought this would be a simple install, just follow the detailed write-up that's already on here. FYI, as of 2017 they still list their kit as coming with a Walbro pump, but it still comes with the Turbine Tech pump that they switched to some years ago. I thought I'd read somewhere that they switched back to the Walbro after customer complaints and issues with the other pump, but apparently not. Also, if you have any insight into this Turbine Tech thing, I'm all ears. I haven't found any confirmed reports of the pumps failing yet, and what they describe is that it's a turbine pump rather than a gear pump which reduces noise but provides the same flow rates, pressures, etc, and supposedly has a decent service life.

QUOTE]

I was going to respond to this post last night but it was late. However, the last 2 posts you made kinda read my mind as far as what I was thinking then. It's been a while and can't remember for sure, but if you look at the 3rd picture in my thread here you will see the Racetronix Bulkhead fitting and Wiring Connector.

Racetronix Kit Install

The plug itself could have a wire added and might be all you need. What I'm not 100% sure about is if the bulkhead connector has a 4th metal pin that runs from the outside to the inside where the intank harness plugs in. I cant see that in my picture. But again, getting back to the Whole "Ground is Ground" comment, you should be able to just splice thos 2 together...I think. If you have any concerns, just use some test leads to wire things up temporarily outside of the tank to at least "electrically" test that all things work as they should before committing to splicing the 2 wires.

Another thought I had was I wonder if Gary (innovativewiring.com) would be interested in taking over where Raetronix has and make/offer similar kits? I may just shoot him a PM and see what he thinks. I know the quality would be impeccable and the Customer service would be the same and waaaaay better than the other guys.

Speaking of the "other guys" or Racetronix. I've defended them for quite a while on their customer service even though I was not a believer in how they provide that to their users. I've usually gotten answers to my questions and even offered them input on things I discovered that weren't in line with theirs cause I felt it was a better way to do it. Simple statement to describe racetronix...... "They have Awesome Products and are top quality parts but their Tech Support is not the best or easily accessed when needed."

There is a reason why I've changed my tune regarding their tech Support. But unless you have some Aptitude to "back yard engineer" a perfectly good part, you may run into issues. If you do have issues and can't figure it out yourself, you could be stuck with Really nice parts that you don't know how to install.

On the turbine tech pumps, both I and another member here shared with them concerns we had with the Turbine Tech Purple Pump they offer now. The other member even had his pump literally MELT and needed to be replaced. The thing that really pissed me off was that THEY removed both mine and his posts/Questions/Concerns/Pictures of said damage from their tech forum. We supplied good info with pictures and had a very good back and forth with them on the Purple Pump. This could be helpful to those looking at info but may make their "new" Turbine tech Pumps" look bad to someone. So what did they do days later with all that info? The Sneaky SOB's deleted all that info from their website. My only assumption is they did it to conceal the fact that these pumps have issues. I responded to them to ask where that info was and the little shyts had no response and I chose to move on. But that there is some downright sneaky garbage and they can't be trusted IMHHO based on that simple fact alone. So good products as far as the Harness stuff but don't like how they "seem" to be covering up issues with their Fuel Pump. Knock on wood mine is still working but when it fails, I will get the Walbro pump instead but continue to use their Harness.

================================================== =============


'95 Caprice SS conversion - Bonny Buckets - 96 Column, Shifter and Console - 3.73 Gear and Herter tune - Z/28 Cluster - Blazer OH Console - Green/Pink bushings - Chromed Impala Wheels - Eibach Springs and Bilstein Shocks - Corvette Engine Dress - the list goes on and still more to do...it never ends.
4DoorSS is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 08:56 AM
Senior Member
 
4DoorSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Beautiful Chester County, PA
Posts: 7,103
 
Actually just found this pic in my Library and it does look like the BulkHead Connector has the 4th Metal pin.



I would just put a meter on both sides to make sure it is fully connected inside the Yellow Housing but would think it is. You then just need to add the 4th Wire and Terminal to the Harness going to your factory plug.

================================================== =============


'95 Caprice SS conversion - Bonny Buckets - 96 Column, Shifter and Console - 3.73 Gear and Herter tune - Z/28 Cluster - Blazer OH Console - Green/Pink bushings - Chromed Impala Wheels - Eibach Springs and Bilstein Shocks - Corvette Engine Dress - the list goes on and still more to do...it never ends.
4DoorSS is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevy Impala SS Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome