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  #11  
Old 03-26-2012, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burge$$ View Post
Now about the injector duty cycle % calculated from bpw I don't know how to check on that...
At this point you havent exceeded there limit.


Injector offsets and voltage scalers is like speaking japanese to me...lol I'm sorry but I'm not that savy when it comes to the tuning portion of this. I'm willing to learn however. From what I read I thought the 30lb injectors would be good enough for the 383 combo. My heads flow descent not great but pretty good (270 @ .500") along with the k&n cai and the 3.5 maf.
Its good to know thw above data when specing an engine and to know whatsensors are being utilized that need to be calibrated for.

The knock sensors are torqued to 14lbs. The tuner Solomon said just replied to me and said the he thinks that the knock is false since my timing is set to 1-2* below stock. But he did say that the spark retard at 1900 on the data log I posted here could be real. This what he said, "The one at 1900 could be real, because I see your O2 voltage go pretty lean when you first get on it, indicating your fuel pressure may be temporarily dropping."
The "snap throttle" lean condition is the WOT fueling enable parameter being set too high. In the coolant temperature threshold for WOT enable, set both tables to a really low number, reflash the car and redrive and scan. Lean spot should go away. As for the knock, what are your plug gaps? As we increase torque output, we increase cylinder pressure. This taxes the ignition system and can cause heat related misfires and coil charging cycles that arent long enough and this causes misfires. Close your plug gaps down to .035, and since you went with 383 cubes and a 503 cam a drop in heat range, about 1, should do it. Do those three things and report back. As for the VE tune, the ecm actually uses this table for calculating pulsewidths and used in conjunction with the MAF table and fuel trims give the pulse width for part throttle and idle. The closer these tables are to ideal the better. As for the actual calibrating, you will need to come up with a calibration fiel to use that has WOT fueling all but disabled, transmission shifting set to manual by setting all of the speeds to 255, and disabling the "kickdown" subroutines,(WOT settings for the transmission) the CCP, EGR, WOT, and set the closed loop target tables to .450 for the time being to and VE tune and MAF tune VERY CAREFULLY so you dont burn your motor up while calibrating so you can tune for power when your done.

Also buy this book, Master GM efi tuner by Dan Maslic or find the dvd calibrated success by Greg Banish. Both will help a TON and make the learning curve smaller.

Chris
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:41 PM
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This is really something I would only do hands on, but I'll try and help you along.

First off your tuner is seeing a lean spot and real knock around 1900 he says so that is good! You've got the knock sensors installed properly. With that and your flucuating fuel pressure mentioned earlier, you do have the hot wire kit so look at the fuel pump ground!!! Where is it? Is it clean metal? If to body do you still have body to engine ground straps, body to frame straps, engine to frame straps. Just lots of varibles you can't see by mail or internet. When I do conversions or High HP engines I run power and a ground wire back to block of engine. Also check voltage as close to fuel pump as you can it should be very close to actual battery voltage when car is running. Bad ground will lower voltage! If your voltage is not good and steady then neither will your fuel pressure, like it is now seems like an issue and if your fuel pressure is changing you'll be chasing lean conditions forever...


Your tuner should already know you have aftermarket injectors? Right? and your fuel pressure, Right? If he does not then nothing is right. If he knows then he should have done injector offset vs voltage for those injectors and already calculated BPC for the tune.

Do you have a wide band O2 sensor?

Has the WOT BLM locker been installed on bin, can you see your Narrow Band O2 sensor readings in the Data Log? They should be .900 up at WOT high RPM or your running lean and going to melt something... this is not a accurate test but better then nothing without a wide band.

Doing a SD (Speed Density) tune is a matter of turning off the MAF sensor and running SD to get fueling VE tables in order, then work on MAF calculations. Once I figured out how to do this tunes were much easier. But there are guys out there with way more experiance then me. So maybe it can be done?
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko350 View Post
The "snap throttle" lean condition is the WOT fueling enable parameter being set too high. In the coolant temperature threshold for WOT enable, set both tables to a really low number, reflash the car and redrive and scan. Lean spot should go away. As for the knock, what are your plug gaps? As we increase torque output, we increase cylinder pressure. This taxes the ignition system and can cause heat related misfires and coil charging cycles that arent long enough and this causes misfires. Close your plug gaps down to .035, and since you went with 383 cubes and a 503 cam a drop in heat range, about 1, should do it. Do those three things and report back. As for the VE tune, the ecm actually uses this table for calculating pulsewidths and used in conjunction with the MAF table and fuel trims give the pulse width for part throttle and idle. The closer these tables are to ideal the better. As for the actual calibrating, you will need to come up with a calibration fiel to use that has WOT fueling all but disabled, transmission shifting set to manual by setting all of the speeds to 255, and disabling the "kickdown" subroutines,(WOT settings for the transmission) the CCP, EGR, WOT, and set the closed loop target tables to .450 for the time being to and VE tune and MAF tune VERY CAREFULLY so you dont burn your motor up while calibrating so you can tune for power when your done.

Also buy this book, Master GM efi tuner by Dan Maslic or find the dvd calibrated success by Greg Banish. Both will help a TON and make the learning curve smaller.

Chris
Damn man thanks a bunch!!! You really do know your stuff!! Thumbs up! I'll perform the checks specified this weekend and report back. Hell I'm gonna send this message to the tuner and tell him to listen to you. Btw the plugs are tapped to .035"
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  #14  
Old 03-26-2012, 11:25 PM
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Theres lots of guys here that know there stuff. Most tuners like to keep the information close, as it makes them money. A well informed cutomer is better in my opinion, and as a calibrator we all do it a bit differently. Solomon has his method and it works well for him and others. Guys like Eaglemark are on point. Take all the advice, Wash it through a few times and ask about what you cant get the grasp of. There is no shame in paying for a tune at this point however. I would in your shoes, but then again I tune my own stuff. I break more stuff than I tune, So I is a busy guy

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Old 03-27-2012, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
you do have the hot wire kit so look at the fuel pump ground!!! Where is it? Is it clean metal? If to body do you still have body to engine ground straps, body to frame straps, engine to frame straps. Just lots of varibles you can't see by mail or internet. When I do conversions or High HP engines I run power and a ground wire back to block of engine. Also check voltage as close to fuel pump as you can it should be very close to actual battery voltage when car is running. Bad ground will lower voltage! If your voltage is not good and steady then neither will your fuel pressure, like it is now seems like an issue and if your fuel pressure is changing you'll be chasing lean conditions forever...
I'll give that a good look. I know that I took a slight grinding wheel to the metal surface where I grounded the pump but I'll have to see if it was to the body or frame. I have the innovative wiring battery cables, negative to the body, altenator support bracket, and the power to the altenator and to that fuse box under hood, and to the starter. I have the small braided ground strap at the rear of the drivers side head to the firewall. I'll see what kind of voltage I have at the pump though to be sure. Thanks for that info.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
Your tuner should already know you have aftermarket injectors? Right? and your fuel pressure, Right? If he does not then nothing is right. If he knows then he should have done injector offset vs voltage for those injectors and already calculated BPC for the tune.
I would hope that he calculated that stuff. He does have that info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
Do you have a wide band O2 sensor?
No

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
Has the WOT BLM locker been installed on bin,
Couldn't tell you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
can you see your Narrow Band O2 sensor readings in the Data Log? They should be .900 up at WOT high RPM or your running lean and going to melt something... this is not a accurate test but better then nothing without a wide band.
Yes I see a reading for two O2 sensors. I'll have to check their values though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
Doing a SD (Speed Density) tune is a matter of turning off the MAF sensor and running SD to get fueling VE tables in order, then work on MAF calculations. Once I figured out how to do this tunes were much easier. But there are guys out there with way more experiance then me. So maybe it can be done?

thanks so much for all your time and help. I guess I'll tell the tuner (Solomon) to do what y'all said. I don't know if I even want him to do it since he didn't do this stuff in the first place. Maybe he isn't that sharp, not to take anything away from him. But maybe I need to move on to someone with a little more knowledge. What do you think? I have paypal if someone is willing to work with me. I just wanna get this thing dialed in so I can drive it... If there is a tuner out there that is serious about helping me please PM me. Thanks

Tony
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Rocko350 View Post
There is no shame in paying for a tune at this point however. I would in your shoes

That's exactly what I'm trying to do!!! I don't mind learning all this stuff because it is quite interesting to me to see what small changes can do to a motor, but in my case I need my wheels and I would rather just go back and forth with a tuner to get it dialed in. That's what I've been doing with Solomon but it doesn't look like we are making much progress. I seem to be hearing a lot of stuff on this forum from you guys that I don't think he is even getting close to doing on his tunes.

Tony
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K&N CAI, 2.5" Pypes X catback w/spintech muff's, '96 floor shift conversion, Eaton 3.73'd, 3500 Yank, built 4l60e w/Dana's custom drilled seperator plate and more, tune, Hooker headers, z28 cluster by Bob94, Ported aluminum heads with 1.6 RR's, stroked, 30lb ford svo injectors, complete suspension overhaul: Vogtlands coils f/r, Bilstein shocks f/r, all ball joints, tie rods, bushings, C3Fab extended rear upper and lower control arms, BMR f/r sway bars, black powder coated stockers
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  #17  
Old 03-28-2012, 12:46 AM
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Well I'm getting a tune from Alex at pcmperformance. I will let you guys know how it turned out soon. Thanks for all of your help. And Rocko....I'll holla!
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  #18  
Old 03-28-2012, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burge$$ View Post
And Rocko....I'll holla!
He is very good at these LT1! When he opens up and talks real tuning I go out of my way to read what he says!

EDIT: Just because we are helping and bringing up points does not mean your tuner is not good or even if we know he is making a mistake? There are more then one way to skin a cat, even if there was a book to tell you exactly what to do it would just open your eyes to what is actually available in a GM ECM/PCM compared to an aftermarket. Many paremeters available in a OEM/GM ECM/PCM should not be touched! Yes you could fix this issue with that paremeter but mess something else up. Most all paremeters are based off one needing to be correct, if it is correct then all others will fall in place.

Bottom line from my point of view is it is hard to tune through mail and email without person on other end being able to preform and check mechanical issues that effect tune! I very, very rarely get invloved with helping if not hands on! I do like to learn and help share how to learn online quite a bit.

IIRC I said above I helped a guy local who got a mail order tune from well respected tuner. Recorded data and went back and forth several times. I opened the hood and saw what was wrong! Fixed it and his first tune was close enough to fine tune. If tuner had a picture of engine under hood he too would have seen the issue. Mechanical things have to be correct, there is no way to properly tune around them.

Last edited by EagleMark; 03-28-2012 at 12:53 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-29-2012, 10:51 PM
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  #20  
Old 04-01-2012, 08:14 AM
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Hands on tuning is hard to beat...
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