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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey Everyone, first post here, though I've been lurking and absorbing for awhile.

I'm working on selling off my '96 SS and I can't get the idea of B-body wagons out of my head. I've had the SS for the past 10 years, so I'm familiar with the LT1 and most of the mechanicals that would go with a wagon, but what about the earlier wagons? Specifically, the wagons without the LT1 4L60E setup?

I think most of these were 350s right? I've "heard" that things like the distributor are a real pain to work on because of location. I think the power output is down compared to the LT1 too, right? Any thoughts out there on the LT1 vs. the earlier setups from people who know more than me? Any other thoughts about the earlier vs. later wagons I might want to consider?

Thanks, the info and people here are great!

-Leland
 

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Keep the SS!!!!!!!!! Buy a wagon for your daily driver. The tbi cars are cheaper and easier to work on, but i sure love the power of my lt1 wagons. I'll trade my 94 florida rmw for your SS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yeah, the SS is a great car, life has just changed a lot since I picked the thing up a decade ago. I'll be sad to see it go, here's a link with some pics in case anybody wants to see my current b-body.

http://sites.google.com/site/forsaleimpala/

It lives with a 90 Suburban ("my" daily driver) and a '04 Vibe GT, my wife's car and real daily driver.

Oh, and I guess the title to this post should be 91-93, not 92-93...too early in the morning for me!

-Leland
 

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Yeah the '91-93 wagons are down on power compared to the LT1 wagons. Most had the 305 I think, though.

I have a decent one, 350, tow package, and 3.23 rear end. It's not FAST by any means, but I never feel down on power or too slow to move wherever I want in traffic. It's actually pretty funny when I pass people and they look at me like "I just got passed by a WHAT?"
 

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The 92 and 93 Roadmasters had 350's standard, the 305 was always standard on the caprice with the 350 being optional IIRC. TBI's are cheap and easy to work on, but going from an SS you might have that urge for an LT1.
 

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TBI 350s have only a little bit less Torque than an LT1 but about 80 less HP. (180 vs 262). 305s have 170 HP and less torque.

If you live where there are hills, get a 350. my 305 was working hard in the hills of the Blue Ridge and Allegheny mountains on my recent trip
 

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the 80hp differance between the lt1 and the lO5 can easily be made up with some simple mods to the exhaust, the tbi, and the air intake box.
with my 93 sedan nosed woody wagon I used the L05 9C1 cross over pipe, it has 3" outlet, a 3" cat, 3" pipe, 3" muffler, finised with a 3" tail pipe that exits in the stock location, it sounds great and gave me a lot of air flow. It gave me about a 20% gain in hp and torq. under the hood I've placed a full one inch spacer block under the tbi, this simple mod has given me more torq at highway speed meaning if you punch it at highway speeds it nails you into your seat. I've also swap in a K&N air filter element did not really notice a big differance so I'm guessing that was only good for a 2% gain. So far I may not have picked up 80hp but I have gained a lot of torq so I'm pleased so far both for the increased in fun and the better millage.
I plan on doing a few more simple mods like swaping in the tbi injectors from a 91-93 9C1, adding a spacer between the venturi and the injectors along with honning and buffing the venturi bowls, I also want to build a custom air intake system.

I'm also planning on some internal mods and possibly headers,

Keep in mind that the LO series are basicly the same small block engines that GM made since the fifties and that most off the shelf performance parts can be used on them to produce obscene hp and torq

some say that the TBI is the weak point of the LO engines, you can play around with GM parts from different TBI units and make yourself a TBI unit that will give you 700++CFMs
the only true weak point is the ecm but there are a number of aftermarket stand alone engine manegment systems that can be used to solve that
 

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What difference do the 9C1 injectors make? I'm intrigued. I've already got a decent exhaust setup, and the throttle body spacer is next for me. But I've never heard of the injector swap.
 

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Speaking from experience, since I own both a 93 and a 94 wagon...

I love the additional oomph from the LT1. However, we recently got it back from a really frustrating cooling system issue. And I only hope that the new delphi heater core will in fact give us heat this winter. Cosmetically, I like the 94-96 RMW door panels more than the early ones. Dash leaves a bit to be desired as the earlier RMW's had full instrumentation.

I like the 93 for its "simpler" design...no reverse cooling, regular SBC parts (which are cheap).

As for the HP diff...if u convert an L05 to TPI w/ Vortec heads and dual exhaust, I think the differences would be eliminated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Great info here - thanks for sharing. I'm starting to like the idea of finding an "older" L05 and working it over some. One thing I do like about those engines is that when I look at them, they look very much like what's in my '90 Suburban, which I've always been more familiar with than the LT1.

Not that I haven't learned a few things about the LT1 over the years...
 

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It's the same motor that's in your '90 Suburban, that's why. :)
 

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I like the 93 for its "simpler" design...no reverse cooling, regular SBC parts (which are cheap).
True that the 93 does not have reverse "head first" cooling like the LT's have, but keep in mind the pump is still unique because of it's underslung position on the belt of it's serpentine system. The pump vanes actually rotate in the opposite direction than what the older blocks used, as the pump was directly belted to the lower pulley and overslung. (Only important when you have to replace it.)

The collar of the distributor is also larger, as is the manifold hole it sits in, to allow clearance to pull or insert. As an example, a TPI distributor cannot be used as a direct replacement for a TBI dizzy for that simple reason.

Been there .. did it wrong.. had to do it over again. cwm3
 

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What difference do the 9C1 injectors make? I'm intrigued. I've already got a decent exhaust setup, and the throttle body spacer is next for me. But I've never heard of the injector swap.
the 9C1 injectors are larger and gives a few more CFM's over the standard injectors, they are very rare and hard to find up here in Canada due to the fact that most 9C1's here were converted to run on natural gas.

the injectors have a two colour code system, I'll have to look it up to find the colour code for the 9C1 injectors.
 

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The collar of the distributor is also larger, as is the manifold hole it sits in, to allow clearance to pull or insert. As an example, a TPI distributor cannot be used as a direct replacement for a TBI dizzy for that simple reason.

Been there .. did it wrong.. had to do it over again. cwm3
Eldelbrock makes an TBI performer intake for the LO5, but it can't be used on the 91-93 b bodies because of the ditributor, having not seen one I can't say if it could be machined to fit the b body distributor.

although if a large enough number of us were to ask them they make make an intake for our needs.
 

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Alternatively, someone might think that perhaps the collar of the TBI distributor could be turned down as well to a smaller diameter, but I think it would cause trouble. The TBI collar hole is larger for good reason and I found out why on my TPI swap the hard way. The problem I ran into was as follows.

The larger hole for the dizzy on TBI allows it to be angled more when removing it or inserting it. The importance is that the greater angle is needed to clear the overhead cowl in front of the windshield. With the lesser diameter and angle of the TPI manifold, the dizzy can only be removed or mounted into our wagons with the manifold being removed or mounted at the same time. You have to stick the dizzy into the manifold hole first, while it's OFF the engine, and move both pieces into place at the same time.

So IF a small collar aftermarket manifold is being produced, (I don't know with any certainty) I could envision it easily producing the same condition.

Of course I found out all this crap AFTER the block was in and the small hole TPI manifold was already sealed in place. What a pain in the ass that klusterphuck turned out to be.

Functionally, both TPI and TBI dizzies are identical, HEI remote coil, just not the same collars. Measure twice..buy once!
 

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If you want a Lt1 car I just posted my wagon in the for sale section!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Don't tempt me... I'm still waiting on the Impala to move. As tempting as it is to own multiple LT1s, the SS needs to move first.

With that said, I'll check out your wagon anyway.
 

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On the left is a B-body TBI intake, on the right is a GMPP LT1 carb intake that uses a standard ditributor. You can see the difference in the distributor hole.




and a Edelbrock Victor Jr. machined for a B-body distributor.

But most intakes don't have enough meat around the hole to do this.

Oh!!... and look what else I've got, an LT1 intake machined for a rear distributor. I have a couple of these.




I've been through alot with these cars.



And Pat... I have a tricked out TBI unit with 65lb injectors, pod spacer, adjustable regulator, ridges removed and smoothed. It's been collecting dust on a shelf since I gave up on TBI and swapped an LT1 into my '93. PM me your address, for the cost of shipping I'll send it to you if you would like to give it a shot. Maybe you'll have better luck than I did.
6965 ECM and custom chip included.
 

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TBIs can make power, just look at www.thirdgen.org

They can be had for cheaper, and with EBL flash www.dynamicefi.com any swap you can think of is possible.

Id say if you want something to work on slowly TBI if you dont want to LT1

I might be biased as I have a TBI wagon, but its far fro the Lo3 as I can get.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Great photos of the LT1 modifications - what a sweet installation.

Also really interesting to see the different distributor holes in the intake, thanks for taking the time to share those.
-Leland
 
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