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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
EDITED 5/16/2009

I wrote previously that I would publish an update on this topic, so here it is!

To refresh anyone's memory: Spicer Stuff

All items listed here have a GM "long number" and can be ordered by any GM dealer. All numbers starting with "45---" are ACDelco.

If there is anything I missed, or if you are looking for info on another vehicle, just let me know. I can also provide equivalent P/N's for Moog springs from the ACD listings.

Some Moog and other source equivalent kits are packaged differently than the ACDelco parts, with multiple parts in a P/N package--especially bushings--where ACDelco is NORMALLY packaged as a single item, except where indicated.

NOTE: Prices should be checked locally or at GM Parts Direct online. You can also submit a pricing request here: RMS Auto Parts to find out what these parts may actually cost at present. Remember that GM parts are subject to frequent and inexplicable price adjustments--usually higher, rarely lower.

The bottom line is that you can purchase quality parts from GM, rather than have to wonder whether that idler arm you just bought at CarQuest, Auto Zone, Pep Boys, or the local parts store is REALLY the same one that comes in the blue & yellow box with the racing organization logo on it.

Finally, realize that these are NOT Moog parts. They were Dana/Spicer aftermarket (now Raybestos, part of the Affinia Group, a spin-off from Dana several years ago), NOT to be confused with OE parts used in production.

These ball joints and other articulating parts are "low friction" design. They have other features which I consider superior in most respects to other frequently used major brands. In most cases, since they are the most familiar to this group, I have provided the Moog number for the EQUIVALENT to what is in the ACDelco package.

Here's the "complete" list (does NOT cover every part or application) :

FRONT & REAR SUSPENSION & STEERING PARTS
NOTE: listing is a mix of GM and ACDelco parts--some production parts not supplied by ACDelco are also listed. The NAPA parts listed are the same as the GM/ACDelco parts where all PN's are listed. All are manufactured by Raybestos as noted above.


FRONT SUSPENSION

1. Ball joint, upper (2 per car)
GM 88911387 ACD 45D0016 = NAPA Chassis Parts 260-1091 = Raybestos 500-1016
K5208 is Moog equivalent part (fit/form/function)

2. Ball joint, lower, 5/8" (2 per car)
GM 88911522 ACD 45D2024 = NAPA Chassis Parts 260-1124 = Raybestos 505-1024
K6141T is Moog equivalent part
NOTE: ONLY installed on late 95 and all 96 *SEO* 7B3 suspension configured vehicles--includes 9C1 sedans and late production 1A2 wagons
NOTE: DO NOT attempt to install in control arms made for 9/16" ball joints
NOTE: Recommend use of larger OE castle nut, PN 14054921, when installing this ball joint--instead of nut that comes with ball joint kit. Hex size is 1-1/16", provides greater load surface area against knuckle surface.

NOTE: *SEO* - Special Equipment Option - primarily police car application components, suspension spec 7B3
NOTE: For upgrade to 5/8" lower ball joints, use knuckle 18021377 & 18021378 (B-body with ABS) with correct lower control arms fitted with 5/8" ball joints. Must modify or replace existing lower control arms if changing from 9/16" ball joints.

3. Ball joint, lower, 9/16" (2 per car)
GM 88911524 ACD 45D2026 = NAPA Chassis Parts 260-1130 = Raybestos 505-1026
K6145T is Moog equivalent part
NOTE: Used on ALL 91-96 non-SEO applications and all SEO (9C1/1A2) applications 91 to mid-95
NOTE: As above, recommend use of larger OE castle nut, PN 3983037, when installing this ball joint--hex size is 15/16".

NOTE: Replacement knuckles for 9/16" lower ball joints are 18021052 & 18021053 (B-body with ABS)

4. Ball joint, lower, 9/16" (2 per car)
GM 88911525 ACD 45D2027
(optional oversize press-fit)

5. Shaft, upper arm, offset, with bushings (2 per car)
GM 88913896 ACD 45J0023 = Moog K6210

6. Bolt, upper arm to frame (4 per car) - knurled to press into frame and prevent rotation
GM 10262655

7. Nut, upper arm to frame bolt (4 per car) - prevailing torque (self-locking) - replace after 2 or more uses/alignments
GM 9442939

NOTE: 6. BOLT and 7. NUT secure upper arm cross shaft to frame--where alignment shims are installed

8. Bushing, front upper control arm (4 per car, included with shaft kit above)
GM 88912526 ACD 45G8020 = Moog K6198 or K6409(HD)
(2 in Moog standard kit, 4 in HD kit)

9. Bushing, front lower control arm, forward (2 per car)
GM 88912603 ACD 45G9026 = Moog K6109
(Moog is kit of 2 per side consisting of 1 of this item and 1 of item below)

10. Bushing, front lower control arm, aft (2 per car)
GM 88912760 ACD 45G11013 = Moog K6109
(Moog is kit of 2 per side, consisting of 1 of this item and 1 of item above)

11. Bumper, front lower control arm - "bump stop" (2 per car)
GM 88912477 ACD 45G1004

11a. Bumper, front LCA, from ZQ8 truck suspension package
GM 15956547 Recommended alternate - tall cylindrical urethane design

12. Link kit, front sway bar, "performance" design (1 kit per car - contains 2 links)
GM 88912214 ACD 45G0065 (similar to 1LE link, GM 10221779)

13. Insulator, front spring upper (2 per car)
GM 15597425 (currently limited availability)

13a. Insulator, front spring upper (alternate)
GM 15737908 (truck part, improved design)

14. Shock Absorber, premium monotube, FRONT
GM 88962987 ACD 540-5010


STEERING <click for identification of inner & outer tie rod

1. Tie rod, outer (2 per car)
GM 88910018 ACD 45A0184 = Moog ES2019RLT

2. Tie rod, inner (2 per car)
GM 88910424 ACD 45A0590 = Moog ES2020RLT

3. Sleeve, tie rod adjuster (2 per car)
GM 88910750 ACD 45A6004 = Moog ES2004S

4. Center link (relay rod) (1 per car)
GM 88911150 ACD 45B1098 = Moog DS899

GM 88929986 ACD 45B1133 = Moog DS1405
NOTE: for steering stabilizer (Buick application)

4.a. Steering damper for center link above (1 per car)
GM 88946549

5. Idler arm (1 per car)
GM 88911336 ACD 45C1082 = Moog K6187T


REAR SUSPENSION BUSHINGS/ISOLATORS

1. Bushing, rear upper control arm (axle end) (2 per car)
GM 10000952 (production) Orange JA1/2.93 (7.625 axle)
GM 10000953 (production) Green F41/JA1 (7.625 axle)
GM 10000954 (production) Purple All w/8.5 axle
(above production bushings available from Vintage Parts Inc.
GM 88912770 ACD 45G11023 = Moog K6111
(Moog is kit of 2 per arm = 1 of this item and 1 of item below)

2. Bushing, rear upper control arm, (frame end) (2 per car)
GM 527593 Brown (production)
GM 88912761 ACD 45G11014 = Moog K6111
(Moog is kit of 2 per arm = 1 of this item and 1 of item above for GM parts)

3. Bushing, rear lower control arm (4 per car)
GM 527593 (production)
GM 88912761 ACD 45G11014 = Moog K6116
(Moog is kit of 2 per arm)

4. Insulator, rear spring (4 per car)
GM 88913143 ACD 45G18001 = Moog K6203
NOTE: listed as BUSHING in GM parts ID nomenclature
NOTE: replaces OE production PN 10247105
__________________
Bill Harper
ISSCA #127
[email protected]
 

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Thanks!

How about making this a "new sticky"???
 

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PART UPDATE - FRONT SPRING INSULATOR

The original thread is not available for updating (by me), and I wanted to bring this to the attention of anyone who is doing a front-end overhaul.

Since the demise of the "old" GM, getting the OE front spring insulator (a flat rubber ring) from GM has been un-doable--the part has not been discontinued, but there doesn't seem to be any effort or urgency to restock it....OK, understandable in the "real world". So, the GM parts bin has come to the rescue.

OLD (as listed in first post in thread)
13. Insulator, front spring upper (2 per car)
GM 15597425


GMPD listing
GM PART # 15597425
GM LIST: $8.60
OUR PRICE: $5.10
DESCRIPTION: INSL-FSPR


NEW used on numerous GM coil-spring truck applications--this is a molded urethane part, with a locating "flange"--looks to be very tough, and will stay in place during spring installation far better than the original part--and not much difference in money, to boot.

GMPD listing
GM PART # 15737908
GM LIST: $9.89
OUR PRICE: $5.86
DESCRIPTION: INSULATOR
 

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PART UPDATE - FRONT SPRING INSULATOR

...

OLD (as listed in first post in thread)
13. Insulator, front spring upper (2 per car)
GM 15597425


GMPD listing
GM PART # 15597425
GM LIST: $8.60
OUR PRICE: $5.10
DESCRIPTION: INSL-FSPR


NEW from current Silverado coil-spring truck--this is a molded urethane part, with a locating "flange"--looks to be very tough, and will stay in place during spring installation far better than the original part--and not much difference in money, to boot.

GMPD listing
GM PART # 15737908
GM LIST: $9.89
OUR PRICE: $5.86
DESCRIPTION: INSULATOR

I'll take a picture and send it to someone who can post it...I'm hopeless with that.


Found this one doing a search. The new part number is the blue one to the right. HTH
 

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Above its mentioned that one should use the factory castle nut on the lower balljoints, but it doesnt also mention the uppers. One should use it on those as well.

Factory OEM nut PN 14032551 is on the right compared to a nut supplied with a nut from a replacement (spicer) upper ball joint on the left.



Also:

Lower Control Arm mounting bolts: PN 15515185

Nuts: PN 15516074
 

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Above its mentioned that one should use the factory castle nut on the lower balljoints, but it doesnt also mention the uppers. One should use it on those as well.

Factory OEM nut PN 14032551 is on the right compared to a nut supplied with a nut from a replacement (spicer) upper ball joint on the left.

Also:

Lower Control Arm mounting bolts: PN 15515185

Nuts: PN 15516074
Well, I didn't say "should use", I just recommended use of the OE lower nut for the reason stated. There are, I am certain, plenty of cars out there with replacement ball joints and "small" nuts on the lower ball studs, doing "just fine".

Not to argue the point, but it does make for an interesting question to ponder--if the OE fastener is considered adequate, how does the aftermarket get away with "going cheap" with their specs?

The upper nut and ball stud doesn't see as much load (as the lower), but I'm in agreement that the OE hardware is good--and better than what comes out of the Moog or Spicer/Raybestos box.

As far as the lower control arm hardware, I created the list of ACDelco parts without consideration for "every" part in the front end being listed, mainly the replaceable wear parts (ball joints, tie rods, etc) and some of the more problematic unique OE parts (upper frame bolts, for example).

That said, thanks for the info--I'll try to integrate the info into the original list (I no longer "own" the post as a recovered piece of lost data).
 

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Just a FYI, my PPM 6141 5/8" lower BJ's would not work with the GM PN 14054921 5/8" castle nuts. The threads started on the BJ but would not screw down farther than the cotter pin hole, It would just turn and turn. Must be a slightly differant diameter thread??? It also appeared that the BJ stud was not tall enough to work with the GM nut. More research into will be necessarry. I just used the castle nuts that came with the PPM BJ's instead.

EDITED: To Clarify Balljoint brand
 

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Fuzzcar--

I did discover something, but I will say that my findings do not agree with what you stated.

I had enough different parts on hand to do some checking.

1. Moog 6141 5/8" BJ

2. ACDelco (Raybestos) 5/8" BJ

3. PPM 6141 5/8" (?) BJ

4. GM 14054921 5/8 thread castellated nut for lower BJ stud

My findings:

A. The nut in the Moog box and the GM production nut BOTH fit on the Moog and ACdelco 5/8" BJ without any problem.

B. The PPM 5/8" nut would not fit on either the ACDelco or Moog 5/8" ball stud. Likewise, the Moog and GM OE 5/8" nut would not thread more than a turn onto the PPM 5/8" ball stud.

C. Comparing threads, the thread pitch of the PPM ball stud is definitely not the same as OE. Not sure if it's metric or something else--appears to be somewhat coarser than both of the US branded parts.

Just to be sure--you weren't possibly using a PPM ball joint, were you?

Not quite sure I grasp your comment "It also appeared that the BJ stud was not tall enough to work with the GM nut"--the OE ball joint stud typically has an extended shank with the threads cut back (for easier assembly)--you are correct that the OE nut is taller, but there should be no issue with the flutes or castellated part of the nut being above the end of the (aftermarket) ball stud, which doesn't know the difference--there is still more than adequate grip on the stud, and more using the OE nut than with the nut that comes in either the Moog or ACDelco box. Actually, it appears to me that once installed & tightened, the OE nut will be just flush with the end of the ball stud.

What is (your) requirement as far as the ball stud length or nut height/thickness? Are you assuming the same drag strip/NHRA rule about wheel stud length (stud must extend beyond end of nut) applies in this case--or is there some other standard or rule (written or otherwise) that I'm not aware of?
 

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Fuzzcar--

I did discover something, but I will say that my findings do not agree with what you stated.

I had enough different parts on hand to do some checking.

1. Moog 6141 5/8" BJ

2. ACDelco (Raybestos) 5/8" BJ

3. PPM 6141 5/8" (?) BJ

4. GM 14054921 5/8 thread castellated nut for lower BJ stud

My findings:

A. The nut in the Moog box and the GM production nut BOTH fit on the Moog and ACdelco 5/8" BJ without any problem.

B. The PPM 5/8" nut would not fit on either the ACDelco or Moog 5/8" ball stud. Likewise, the Moog and GM OE 5/8" nut would not thread more than a turn onto the PPM 5/8" ball stud.

C. Comparing threads, the thread pitch of the PPM ball stud is definitely not the same as OE. Not sure if it's metric or something else--appears to be somewhat coarser than both of the US branded parts.

Just to be sure--you weren't possibly using a PPM ball joint, were you?

Not quite sure I grasp your comment "It also appeared that the BJ stud was not tall enough to work with the GM nut"--the OE ball joint stud typically has an extended shank with the threads cut back (for easier assembly)--you are correct that the OE nut is taller, but there should be no issue with the flutes or castellated part of the nut being above the end of the (aftermarket) ball stud, which doesn't know the difference--there is still more than adequate grip on the stud, and more using the OE nut than with the nut that comes in either the Moog or ACDelco box. Actually, it appears to me that once installed & tightened, the OE nut will be just flush with the end of the ball stud.

What is (your) requirement as far as the ball stud length or nut height/thickness? Are you assuming the same drag strip/NHRA rule about wheel stud length (stud must extend beyond end of nut) applies in this case--or is there some other standard or rule (written or otherwise) that I'm not aware of?

You are correct! I am using PPM Balljoints. I assumed (ass-u-me) that because the part number was the same that it was a Moog BJ. In retrospect I never saw the name Moog on the box or on the website. It would be cool if Zack could chime in and let us know more about his balljoint.
 

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You are correct! I am using PPM Balljoints. I assumed (ass-u-me) that because the part number was the same that it was a Moog BJ. In retrospect I never saw the name Moog on the box or on the website. It would be cool if Zack could chime in and let us know more about his balljoint.
Zack has acknowledged previously that his parts are not made in North America. I'm just as surprised as you to learn that the threads are unique to his supplier/source--and I'm curious what the specs are, too.
 

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Link to torque specs added

http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=233186&highlight=torque

Reposted from the original article:

Q: I've heard there are some problems with the ball joints in the Impalas. Is this true, and is there anything I can do about it?

A: Many Impala's and Caprice's come from the factory with improperly torqued upper and lower nuts on the ball joints. In addition, some are not properly greased. For the upper nut, the proper torque spec is 61 ft-lbs and requires a 7/8" socket. As per specs, tighten until the torque wrench "clicks", then continue the turn until the next notch in the nut comes clear for the cotter pin to go through the knuckle. Make sure not to exceed 60 degrees of additional rotation.
For the lower nut, the proper torque spec is 83 ft-lbs and requires a 15/16" socket. Just like the upper nut procedure, tighten until the "click" and continue to rotate until the cotter pin is cleared, and don't exceed 60 additional degrees. While you're down there, retorque the sway bar insulator bushing nuts to 18lb-ft. It should help out with steering feel, ride, handling, and the tendancy to "wander" on ruts or crowns. Here’s a List Of Torque Settings (Check All Of Them).


Front Suspension Torque Settings

Description and Torque

LH/RH lower ball joints nuts - 83 lb-ft

LH/RH upper ball joints nuts - 61 lb-ft

LH/RH front caliber bolts - 38 lb-ft

LH/RH front sway bar nuts - 18 lb-ft

Steering gear box bolts - 64 lb-ft

LH/RH steering linkage outer tie rod nut - 35 lb-ft

LH/RH steering linkage inner tie rod nut - 35 lb-ft

Steering linkage relay rod to pitman arm nut - 35 lb-ft

Steering linkage relay rod to steering linkage idler arm nut - 35 lb-ft
 

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I just caught this thread and thought I'd offer a little something I came across while replacing the entire front end on my FWB. I got these parts as a complete set from PPM (except for the new steering shock) and have had them in storage for a couple years and just now installed everything. I can't profess what brand all the parts were (are). I recall looking for AC or Moog labels and could not find any identifying marks. But, who would have thought cotterkeys would ever become noteworthy? I initially noticed different size cotter keys for the outer and inner tierod ends. I'm like WTF is that all about?

The outers barely did not fit the larger of the two sized keys (what I'll call a 'normal size' key that we're all used to seeing). There were these teeny skinny little things that were WAY undersized even for the 'undersized' hole. The only plausible thing I can come up with is there may have been some kind of quality issue back then on the cotter holes. If I'd caught it earlier it would have been easy to dress the hole, but as it turned out I used 1/2 of a larger cotterkey I had laying around. A finishing nail would have been just as easy. All I know is there's no way I was gonna use the small keys supplied. They wouldn't have stopped the nut one second from backing out if it wanted to.
 

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So Delco replacement suspension parts Are made by Dana/ Spicer? Do I have this right? I know that Spicer makes Napa's NCP (napa chassis parts) line.I have no idea who makes Napa's other (master ride) line. I get Delco parts cheaper than NCP, So if it's all the same (GM/ NCP / Spicer)I'll use GM. I've been hearing not so good things about Moog lately.
 

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9two9,

If you read through the entire introduction in the first post--now several years old--you'll see this statement:

"They were Dana/Spicer aftermarket (now Raybestos, part of the Affinia Group, a spin-off from Dana several years ago)...."(posted/updated in May 2009)

"were" being the operative word.

As far as I know, nothing has changed--yes, the original product design was accomplished by Spicer, and there has been no further advance or change in the design or configuration since the introduction of the Spicer "Professional Grade" line in the early/mid 2000's.

I have not priced any of these items recently, but my recollection is that if you can find a source selling the actual Raybestos item--ie. in a Raybestos box, rather than NAPA or ACDelco, you'll get the best price. The difference can be dramatic, or almost inconsequential, depending on where you go.

For example--Rock Auto--5/8" lower ball joint:

RAYBESTOS Part # 5051024 Professional Grade
Front Suspension; Lower; Police Package
$30.89

MOOG Part # K6141
Frt Susp; Lower; Police
$31.79

ACDELCO Part # 45D2024 {#88911522}
JOINT,FRT LWR CONT ARM BALL -; LOWER; 4 DOORS; w/POLICE
JOINT,FRT LWR CONT ARM BALL -; LOWER; STATION WAGON; w/POLICE
$31.79


GM Parts Direct: (before markup for shipping)
GM PART # 88911522
GM LIST: $60.66
OUR PRICE: $30.94

NAPA listing - O U C H!

Amazon listings:



Lower ball joint - Moog K6141T (5/8)



Lower ball joint - ACDelco 45D2024 (5/8)
photo is not representative of actual part

Pep Boys
LOWER BALL JOINT

* LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY
* FRT SUSP ENH DESIGN - POLICE

K6141 MOOG 2 $15.99

Go figure!!!

And when you can, support Forum advertisers!

http://www.rmsautoparts.com/proddetail.php?prod=45D0016

http://www.rmsautoparts.com/proddetail.php?prod=505-1024&cat=10

http://www.rmsautoparts.com/proddetail.php?prod=45D2024

http://www.rmsautoparts.com/proddetail.php?prod=K6141&cat=10
 

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PART UPDATE - FRONT SPRING INSULATOR

The original thread is not available for updating (by me), and I wanted to bring this to the attention of anyone who is doing a front-end overhaul.

Since the demise of the "old" GM, getting the OE front spring insulator (a flat rubber ring) from GM has been un-doable--the part has not been discontinued, but there doesn't seem to be any effort or urgency to restock it....OK, understandable in the "real world". So, the GM parts bin has come to the rescue.

OLD (as listed in first post in thread)
13. Insulator, front spring upper (2 per car)
GM 15597425


GMPD listing
GM PART # 15597425
GM LIST: $8.60
OUR PRICE: $5.10
DESCRIPTION: INSL-FSPR


NEW used on numerous GM coil-spring truck applications--this is a molded urethane part, with a locating "flange"--looks to be very tough, and will stay in place during spring installation far better than the original part--and not much difference in money, to boot.

GMPD listing
GM PART # 15737908
GM LIST: $9.89
OUR PRICE: $5.86
DESCRIPTION: INSULATOR
Sorry to bump a 2010 thread but Bill, do you have any info on the thickness of the truck spring isolator?

I was about to purchase ES part number 96101 for my car (3/8ths) but I am trying to get the lowest possible stance with the springs I am using as I think they may be a bit high for my taste. I was considering going with the GM isolator (1/4 thick, rubber so it should compress) but being that I have never seen one come out of a car that didn't look haggard, I wanted something a bit more durable.

Any help is a appreciated! PS awesome info as always! It's crazy that 9 out of 10 times when I search for a hard to find/identify part for our cars on google, I come back with one of your threads listing part numbers of various brands and detailed information. You are one of those guys that all the other car brand guys get jealous of for not having you in their own group lol
 

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The OE production rubber cushion (fabric reinforced) is about 0.280" thick at the flange.

The recommended replacement - OE for trucks (the blue molded part) is right at 0.250" at the flange....use it!

Appreciate the support--I try! :D

Nice! Thank you again! I jumped the gun and ordered the 3/8ths ES ones and a set of Moog rubber ones from summit racing. I just ordered the blue truck ones you listed above as well. Before I send the ES/Moog stuff back i'll take some measurements and do some comparisons on them just for reference.
 

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I just ordered a "Power LEE Steering box" for my Impala and would like to replace the Pitman Arm which as a bit of loose in it when I install the new Box. I can't seem to find any aftermarket ones. Does anybody have a little more info on these.

Thanks
 

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Steven, I responded in the e-mail back to you with body mount info.

Unless the pitman arm is actually damaged in some way, the more likely cause of your "loose" condition is the center link, which does wear.

If you're still intent on getting a pitman arm, try one of the circle track racing suppliers:

Lefthander Chassis

Howe Racing

Speedway Motors

Not saying ANY of these will work--the OE pitman arm is no longer available, so you either have to find one in a salvage yard, or come up with an alternate source
 
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