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Discussion Starter #1
I'm looking at a '95 Roadmaster, March '95 build, LT1, 2.56 rear axle, blue leather interior, same shade as my '95 9C1 blue cloth, FE1 suspension, no heavy duty cooling (in south Texas???), 45 K miles, automagic air conditioning, wire wheel covers on steel wheels. No G80 posi. $11,000 asking price.

What should I look out for/avoid.

I would put the 9C1 springs, shocks, sway bars, and rear lower control arm kit on it. Also probably 3.23 or 3.42 rear axle.

Will I have to do the body bushing mod?

I figure I can install the left side (secondary) 240 watt heavy duty cooling fan.

Will a '95 9C1 PCM program run the Roadmaster or is there some equipment/
indicators that will be messed up?

Thanks in advance,


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Rowland Hill, '95 9C1
 
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Discussion Starter #3
It's a sedan.

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Rowland Hill, '95 9C1
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Id slap in a 3.73 and some headers on that bad boy,it can be one BAD A$$ sleeper!!

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Shane Cobb
96 Impala SS "Big Green and mean!"
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Rowland,

Sounds like a pretty fair price for the car. Mine's white w/grey leather, and I paid just under 10 and it has 70,000 on it now. You will need to do the bushing mod, all the b-body's except 9C1 need to have it done. Most of these cars were pretty well taken care of due to the usual elderly owners. I looked at about 6-8 cars before I bought, the worst problem I saw being random paint removal from all four corners and the ends of the mirrors.

I have SS sway bars, springs, shocks, ready to go in. Gears and disc rear are next. I can't help on the PCM, my knowledge on the electronics are not to that level yet. Even without the SS parts, I have a blast surprising the hell out of those that don't know!

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95 Roadmaster Sedan
95 Roadmaster Wagon
 
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Discussion Starter #6
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>by XWrench:
Rowland,

Sounds like a pretty fair price for the car...I have SS sway bars, springs, shocks, ready to go in. Gears and disc rear are next...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like you have similar plans to mine. The over drive trans gear and 2.56 rear end seems way too high to be of much use. I don't like to run my engine below 1500 steady state and 70 in OD works out to something just under 1500 RPM.

What do you plan as your source for the rear axle?

One out of a totaled SS sounds good because it would also have the G80 posi.

With two B-bodies LT1 Edit starts to make more sense.

The only caveat in my case is that if my wife decides it is too big or the rear visibility is not adequate, I told her we could get rid of it in a couple of months or earlier if she wants. I would have preferred to get another '95 Chevy due to the better visibility to the rear, but she has liked the Roadmaster since it came out in '91.

Now to see if my new sig works. After a couple of months and I bring the Buick up to mostly 9C1 specs, I plan to make it '95 Chevy 9C1 and '95 Buick 9C1.


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Rowland Hill, '95 Chevy 9C1, '95 Roadmaster
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Rowland,

The plan is to sort of make a pseudo-SS (GS?) out of it. Both cars of mine have the 2:56 rear - more suited for Bonneville. Several yards in town here have the 3:08 posi disc rear available - for about a grand. I don't really know if that's a fair price or not. I started pricing all the separate components for adapting the drum rear over, but after dealing with purchasing a posi, and the gears, the complete swap may make more sense.

Can you elaborate a little on LT1 Edit? I'm pleading ignorance on that.

Well, it's funny you mention the visibilty thing. my wife drives the sedan most of the time. She really likes the car, but about a month ago backing out of the driveway she misjudged and hit the basketball pole (Buried about 6 ft. down in concrete) with the RR corner. Ouch. Not too bad, but needs to visit the body shop for couple days.

Keep me posted on any progress on your "updates".

Mark

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95 Roadmaster Sedan
95 Roadmaster Wagon
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Probably a GS.
I remember when those first came out in the mid '60's.

My family and I had a 1965 Tempest Le Mans for 13 years and 125 K miles. Unfortunately, It got bad rust problems at the base of the windshield and rear window, and in the trunk floor and rear fenders.

Part of what turned me on to these B bodies is that I was thinking that what I would really like to buy is a four door 1965 GM A body and then I found that the mid 90's B bodies weren't that far off in dimensions. The Impala is too flashy (don't want to go out of my way to attract thieves and law enforcement attention), too expensive, and for safety reasons and in South Texas I only buy white cars.

These B bodies have it all over the mid 60's cars with the suspension, tires, wheels, electronic fuel injection, corrosion protection, paint, etc.

LT1 Edit is used to edit or reprogram the program in the PCM (Powertrain Control Module), primarily for keeping your speedometer correct when changing tire overall diameter or rear axle ratios, changing the temp at which the cooling fans turn on, and maybe shift speeds. If one wants to experiment, they can fiddle with the air fuel ratio and ignition advance. The 108 mph limiter can be raised; whether it makes sense to do so depends on one's tires' speed ratings and the pressure carried. I doubt I will ever see the far side of 100.

I am happy with the factory ignition and fuel mapping, but want my fans to come on at lower temps. The factory PCM programming has the passenger side primary fan coming on at 225F and the driver side secondary fan turning on at 232F. I don't want my engine running that hot. It may help fuel mileage marginally by using less electrical energy to run the electric fans, but I am more interested in miles per engine than miles per gallon. If I put in a different rear end ratio, I will use it to correct the speedometer.

One can get this done by others for a fee, but with two cars I think it will be cost effective to do it myself.

Realistically, although it would be fun to hot rod one, the LT1's have enough power for me for any practical use. I bought the 9C1 for all of the heavy duty stuff, like engine oil cooler, power steering fluid cooler, extra capacity cooling, four wheel disc brakes, 3.08 rear axle (makes it easier on the engine), etc. The factory made the 9C1's to be bulletproof maintenance wise in pursuit. The 9C6 taxis were built to provide 200-300 K miles with minimal maintenance. I figure the factory made the Roadmaster to get maximum fuel mileage, and get through the warranty period and hopefully the first owner's ownership without any bad maintenance bills.

I plan to replace the black plastic front air dam outer sections with the 9C1 pieces for better brake rotor cooling. When I replace the front rotors, I plan to get the thicker 9C1 front rotors. I may have to get 9C1 calipers also.

Anyway, these are my plans, if my wife decides she likes it. I expect to have the 9C1 for at least ten if not twenty years. The only thing that would knock me out of it is if they triple the price of gas.

Keep in touch.


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Rowland Hill, '95 Caprice 9C1, '95 Roadmaster

[This message has been edited by Rowland Hill (edited March 04, 2001).]
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Rowland,

Thanks a bunch for the info. LT1 Edit is on the shopping list. I didn't know the 9C1 had different rotors & calipers either. The sedan has some awfully warped rotors right now, and I was going to replace them anyway. Nice tip.

I'll post when the first wave of modifications is finished. The snow is just starting to melt right now, I don't plan to work on them until sometime in April (probably after the 15). One more thing, one item I haven't purchased, and haven't seen any recommedations on, are stabilizer links or the front bar bushings. If there is something that works better than others, please let me know. Thanks again.

Mark

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95 Roadmaster Sedan
95 Roadmaster Wagon
 
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Discussion Starter #10
The 9C1 bushings and end links will reduce slop over 70,000 mile stock bushings and provide more front sway control and are an easy install. You can use also use the SS bushings and end link assemblies. For safety, you want to put the car on jackstands.

I am happy with the level of control provided by the 9C1 bars and bushings. The 9C1 bars may be the same as the GM SS bars. More control = stiffer = more harshness. Add the 9C1 front bar, and it will be noticeably stiffer. There are stiffer bars than the 9C1 and harder bushings. It is all a compromise. Does your Roadmaster wagon have the Firm Ride and Suspension package?

Have you contacted Dal Slabaugh in Ohio? He is the man for the right GM parts at the best prices, unless your local dealer is willing to give you wholesale. My local dealer is willing to give me 20% off, but that is not wholesale. I only use the local dealer for cheap items.

There is a GM $30-40 rear lower control arm upgrade kit that has the installation hardware for the GM rear bars on the sedans. Dal can tell you whether the GM rear bars will bolt on the wagon. The wagon rear axle is about three inches wider than the sedans. I expect the GM bars will work on the wagon though. I think the only difference is the axle shafts. I think the housings are the same.

If you don't have a GM 1995 B-Body Factory Service Manual (FSM), you really need to get one. It is three 8.5 x 11 inch books that stack about 4 inches high. The Haynes doesn't compare. Dal can get you an FSM, or you can order one from Helm, Inc. at helminc.com

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Rowland Hill, '95 Caprice 9C1, '95 Roadmaster

[This message has been edited by Rowland Hill (edited March 06, 2001).]
 
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Discussion Starter #11
All the sway bars are the same on sedans. Suspension differences are bushings, shocks, and springs. The Wagon has a different axle housing than the sedans, it is not just the shaft length. Sedan sway bars will NOT fit, nor will the axle bolt in. See related thread in WAGON section. $1000 is really high for a disc brake axle from SS/9C1. They can be bought for ~$450. 91-96 9C1 and 94-96 SS had discs. Keep in mind that the factory Auburn doesn't last forever. Any axle with more than 50,000 miles will probably need a new posi relatively soon.

The 9C1 brake air dams will keep the brakes cooler, but they also will be wetter and dirtier. Driving through large puddles may cause momentary reduced braking. Just a note.

PCM engine tuning is close to the same, but trans calibration is different on the Buick. If you buy the LT1 Editor, you can copy your 9C1 cal onto your Buick. Then you shouldn't need another 9C1 PCM.

Yes on the body bushing mod.
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Correction : only the 94-96 9C1s got rear discs. The 91-93 9C1s got rear drums.

As for swaybars, stock SS (and 94-96 9C1, AND the "ride/handling" package on the civilian Caprice) are 30mm front and 26mm rear. They should make a nice upgrade on the Roadmaster Sedan (unless some of the Roadmasters came with those bars as well?...not sure).

IF you are sticking with stock SS rear bar, then the control arm package ($35 for a pair of new lower rear arms with ALL the hardware) is a steal. They are NOT strong enough to deal with "big" rear bars, but will be just fine for the stock SS rear bar.

Also, ALL of the LT1 B-bodies (Roadmaster, Caprice Civilian, Caprice 9C1/9C1, Impala SS, Fleetwood, Wagons) got IDENTICAL front rotors as far as dimensions (12.0" diameter, 1.0" thickness). There are minor cosmetic differences on the SS rotors only, but that's it. So replacing your Roadmaster rotors with "9C1" rotors will get you EXACTLY the same rotor. The 9C1 DOES use a different front caliper (accepts thicker pads), but it has no performance benefits other than allowing you to go longer between front pad changes.

Hope this clears up some misconceptions....



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Ed Runnion -- Santa Clara CA -- 96 BBB, Many Mods
[email protected]
www.runnion.net
ROD, HAIL, SoCalSS, ISSCA, NAISSO
 
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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for the info, Ed. The '95 Sales brochure does not show a handling package for the Roadmaster Sedan. Maybe there was one available in other years. The '95 Roadmaster we are buying does not have a rear sway bar, so I expect the front sway bar is smaller than the SS/9C1 bar. If what I think is true, I plan to get SS/9C1 bars, bushings, front bar link kits, and rear lower control arms, and put them all on the Roadmaster along with the 9C1 front springs and Bilstein 1516/1517 shocks.

Mark, see the following link for info on shocks...
http://www.b-body.net/Technical/Suspension/BilsteinShocks.html

I can air bag the rear springs so that I can adjust for loads. Or, Ed, do you think the 9C1 rear springs would have a definite advantage over the bagged stock rear springs?

Thanks much for your info.

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Rowland Hill, '95 Caprice 9C1, '95 Roadmaster
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks Rowland/Ed/Sleeper for the additional information.
I have only seen ONE Roadmaster with a rear sway bar, and he blew by me at about an 80 mph clip on the interstate while I was on business trip. So I don't know what the options were either. The little dash strip on the sedan says "DynaRide" - the wagon states "GranTouringSuspension", but they must be kidding about that.

Sleeper, if you can find a posi/disc rear for me for 4-500, the check would be in the mail.
Also, I heard or read something at one point that Totally Stainless makes a bolt/washer Kit for the rear sway bar and control arms.

I have the FSM's for the 96 cars (when I had a 96 SS) Is it necessary to get the 95 set?

Ed, you always seem to clear up the misconceptions, have you considered writing a book yet?

Mark

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95 Roadmaster Sedan
95 Roadmaster Wagon
 
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Discussion Starter #15
Yes, Sleeper. Thank you also. I apologize for not mentioning your info. I read Ed's post after yours so it was freshest in my mind. Comes with being 56.


Mark, re FSM's, unless you plan to get another '96, you might consider offering the '96 for sale here and then get a '95. Otherwise, you are hoping your '95 is the same as the '96. And, most often, it probably is. But sometimes it probably won't be.

FWIW, the '95 sales brochure shows the Dynaride suspension standard on the Roadmaster Sedan and Limited Sedan, a heavy-duty suspension standard on the wagon, and an automatic level control suspension available on all three. My sedan has Dynaride on the dash also, and the code FE1 ("Suspension System, Soft Ride" according to the FSM) on the Service Parts IDentification (SPID) label on the underside of the trunk lid. Code G67 is the Automatic Level Control. I don't have it. I prefer air bags in the rear springs.

I plan to use the 9C1 springs instead of the SS springs because I want the greater ground clearance of the 9C1 front springs. Depending on what I hear from Ed, I can use bags in the rear springs to adjust the rear to loads and to the height of the front.

I understand the Bilstein 1517 rear shocks have a greater extension than the SS shocks to provide more room for tire changing, perhaps a factor on the Roadmaster, since it doesn't have the full rear wheel cutouts of the '93-'96 Chevy's.

If you email me your snail mail, I will copy the pages with the option codes from the '95 FSM and mail them to you. Or, you may have similar pages in your '96 manual.

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Rowland Hill, '95
9C1 (mine), '95 Roadmaster (hers)

[This message has been edited by Rowland Hill (edited March 06, 2001).]
 
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Mark, on the FSM's. One of the differences is the trouble codes, they use a different # system.

I can get you an disc axle for ~$450. They aren't uncommon in the local junkyards here. I am sure shipping costs would be expensive, even MI to MN. I bought a spare rearend (I didn't want to take apart a perfectly good 3.42/Eaton axle) to put a 4.10 in. It had a 3.23 w/G80 from a 92 Caprice. Drum brakes (11"x2") were so-so, one axle shaft was bad, everything else ok. Paid $150.

Roland, no apology necessary. My wife bought me a day planner after I almost forgot to pick up my sons from school
(I was only late by 4 minutes). And I am 31. Did not exactly put me in as a contender for father of the year.
 
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Discussion Starter #17
Sleeper and Rowland,

Could you guys send your e-mail & snail mail information to me at [email protected] so we could discuss some of these things further. I would appreciate it.
Thanks.

Mark

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95 Roadmaster Sedan
95 Roadmaster Wagon
 
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Discussion Starter #18
Do you guys know where I could get the LT1 Edit?

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1994 Caprice Classic 9C1
~White, spotlight, no mods yet.
1991 Caprice (civilian)
~Black, no mods yet.
ISSCA member #00320
 
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Discussion Starter #19
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> by El_Dude_2k:
Do you guys know where I could get the LT1 Edit?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go to www.carputing.com

Have fun.




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Rowland Hill, '95 9C1 (mine), '95 Roadmaster (hers)
 
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Discussion Starter #20
The only handling package was called the towing package, there was some problem within GM regarding Buick having a sports handling package, thus they accomplished this with the tow package. Check out my signature, I would be happy to give you any info regarding the mods I have made.

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1995 Buick Roadmaster (without vinyl top)K&N filtercharger, 2 1/2 exhaust with x pipe & Flowmaster,stainless Z28 style tips, "Buick brace" Autometer, SS springs (1 1/2 drop), 3.73, Auburn posi., black out grill, Camaro elbow, Hotchkis sway bars, hpp111,160 degree t-stat,TB bypass,dynoed 250 rwhp 313# torque back when only mod was exhaust 14.70 @ 92.74
 
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