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Discussion Starter #1
My 96ss is on 22" irocs and already has 4 Koni adjustable shocks (set to almost full hard), 3cfab extended rear ctrl arms, and eibach pro springs up front with zq8 bump stops and stock ss springs in the rear (long story on that mix match).

The car still rides like crap, wanders all over the road, and the brakes are terrible. It's time for a serious overhaul underneath this thing. Since I don't have the time, tools, space, or patience to work on cars I will be having my very competent mechanic handle all of this at once. I want to cover all the bases and do it all right the first time. I don't need it to handle like an f1 car, just want this thing to behave better under aggressive driving. I have spent hundreds of hours reading the stickies and threads on this forum and I believe I have purchased a nice combination of parts but wanted to make sure I'm not forgetting anything that should also be addressed while the car is torn apart. I have acquired the following parts list

BMR swaybars f/r with new bushings and end links
Pro touring front frame brace
ES body bushings kit (black)
Hotchkis steering rebuild kit w/ sleeves
New steering box
New lower ball joints
Airlift 1000 rear bags
Will have them do an alignment
Stock replacement rotors f/r (too poor for navylfrs kit:frown2:)
Ceramic pads f/r
SS brake lines
2 bottles of wilwood brake fluid
Brake proportioning/metering bolts

Is there any other crucial pieces I'm missing in my brake and suspension overhaul? I'm open to any and all suggestions. I just don't want to pay to have this done twice. And im sorry for including brake questions in a suspension post
 

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Alignment? Ha. From what ive experienced with these cars is the wide stance and wide tires make it wander. Ive even been pulled over at nite for my 91 'weaving'. That was with factory ss wheels n tires (255/50/17s) and fresh alignment and all new parts. If u look at mist vehicles this day in age they are narrow with skinny tires. That wears a pattern into the asphalt. U have to think how many focuses miatas cavaliers g5s and such are on the road. That many narrow track cars have left a nice groove that ur car wont fit into.

My $.02
 

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My 96ss is on 22" irocs and already has 4 Koni adjustable shocks (set to almost full hard), 3cfab extended rear ctrl arms, and eibach pro springs up front with zq8 bump stops and stock ss springs in the rear (long story on that mix match).

The car still rides like crap, wanders all over the road, and the brakes are terrible. It's time for a serious overhaul underneath this thing. Since I don't have the time, tools, space, or patience to work on cars I will be having my very competent mechanic handle all of this at once. I want to cover all the bases and do it all right the first time. I don't need it to handle like an f1 car, just want this thing to behave better under aggressive driving. I have spent hundreds of hours reading the stickies and threads on this forum and I believe I have purchased a nice combination of parts but wanted to make sure I'm not forgetting anything that should also be addressed while the car is torn apart. I have acquired the following parts list

BMR swaybars f/r with new bushings and end links
Pro touring front frame brace
ES body bushings kit (black)
Hotchkis steering rebuild kit w/ sleeves
New steering box
New lower ball joints
Airlift 1000 rear bags
Will have them do an alignment
Stock replacement rotors f/r (too poor for navylfrs kit:frown2:)
Ceramic pads f/r
SS brake lines
2 bottles of wilwood brake fluid
Brake proportioning/metering bolts

Is there any other crucial pieces I'm missing in my brake and suspension overhaul? I'm open to any and all suggestions. I just don't want to pay to have this done twice. And im sorry for including brake questions in a suspension post


The first thing I noticed was the mismatched springs. I'm no expert but I think you should read the recent posts by Scot. He's the Guru on this.


Mark: Snowman-33
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
"Alignment? Ha. From what ive experienced with these cars is the wide stance and wide tires make it wander. Ive even been pulled over at nite for my 91 'weaving'. That was with factory ss wheels n tires (255/50/17s) and fresh alignment and all new parts. If u look at mist vehicles this day in age they are narrow with skinny tires. That wears a pattern into the asphalt. U have to think how many focuses miatas cavaliers g5s and such are on the road. That many narrow track cars have left a nice groove that ur car wont fit into.

My $.02"



Yeah, it'll definitely be getting an alignment after all this work. And I hear you, wide wheels definitely have their trade offs. And the streets in Fort Wayne are beat to hell so that doesn't help the ride feel. Nonetheless, my 20 year old suspension is in need of a serious overhaul
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The first thing I noticed was the mismatched springs. I'm no expert but I think you should read the recent posts by Scot. He's the Guru on this.


Mark: Snowman-33
Scot actually convinced me to get the front frame brace which I'm excited about. I'm interested in his input here. I remember reading a couple places about the ss rear springs being a decent choice paired with stiffer front springs like my eibachs. I'll also being installing airlift 1000 bags in the rear. I'm mainly trying to see if I'm missing anything from my checklist that should be addressed during a suspension/brake overhaul but I'm also open to different spring suggestions if I'm heading the wrong direction with my setup
 

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Not being an expert on this I did see that you're not putting in upper ball joints. Also what about the spring pads while you're in the neighborhood? How about the brakes line too? Both hard and flexible. Just a thought and then you won't be coming back too soon.
BTW I agree with your signature. Kimber Warrior.:laugh:


Mark: Snowman-33
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Not being an expert on this I did see that you're not putting in upper ball joints. Also what about the spring pads while you're in the neighborhood? How about the brakes line too? Both hard and flexible. Just a thought and then you won't be coming back too soon.
BTW I agree with your signature. Kimber Warrior.:laugh:


Mark: Snowman-33
Already have the 5 ss flex lines purchased and my mechanic mentioned my hardline was almost crushed by my exhaust so that'll get replaced too. Spring cushions are a good idea, I'll add that to the grocery list. And nice choice in handgun sir! I daily carry a CZ 75B 9mm. I know, it's a commi gun but it holds 14 and i shoot better with it than anything else I got.
 

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My 96ss is on 22" irocs and already has 4 Koni adjustable shocks (set to almost full hard), 3cfab extended rear ctrl arms, and eibach pro springs up front with zq8 bump stops and stock ss springs in the rear (long story on that mix match).

The car still rides like crap, wanders all over the road, and the brakes are terrible. It's time for a serious overhaul underneath this thing. Since I don't have the time, tools, space, or patience to work on cars I will be having my very competent mechanic handle all of this at once. I want to cover all the bases and do it all right the first time. I don't need it to handle like an f1 car, just want this thing to behave better under aggressive driving. I have spent hundreds of hours reading the stickies and threads on this forum and I believe I have purchased a nice combination of parts but wanted to make sure I'm not forgetting anything that should also be addressed while the car is torn apart. I have acquired the following parts list

BMR swaybars f/r with new bushings and end links
Pro touring front frame brace
ES body bushings kit (black)
Hotchkis steering rebuild kit w/ sleeves
New steering box
New lower ball joints
Airlift 1000 rear bags
Will have them do an alignment
Stock replacement rotors f/r (too poor for navylfrs kit:frown2:)
Ceramic pads f/r
SS brake lines
2 bottles of wilwood brake fluid
Brake proportioning/metering bolts

Is there any other crucial pieces I'm missing in my brake and suspension overhaul? I'm open to any and all suggestions. I just don't want to pay to have this done twice. And im sorry for including brake questions in a suspension post
Seems like quite a list and maybe a good approach to attack it all at once. Some items I did notice missing but assume these will also be done along with the lower BJs.....upper BJs, inner/Outter tie rods, center link, idler arm, adjusters sleeves (steel or billet). If you are doing the body bushings, are you also going to do the Control arm bushings? I would. New lock nuts on the upper control arm shafts since they will be loosened for alignment or removed for bushing install.....DONT REUSE THESE.

Along with steering and suspension pieces, may not be a bad idea to consider a jeep shaft to to replace the stock b-body steering shaft/rag joint. Not sure I get the wide tire/wandering theory though. After recent overhaul/upgrade to 5/8" lower ball joints and a complete rebuild/replacement of most parts, my car tracks true and straight with good control and no wandering. This is running stock wheels and 255/50/17 tires.
 

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"Let me tellya bout white chiks"

True story. I knew this girl, really kind of cute, not too tall but sleek and petite. Really nice but a little insecure, she got very invested in what other people thought of her. Couldn't leave the house without high heels, make up, just the right rear extended lower control arms. I told her "the only reputation you have that matters is the reputation you have with yourself." Basic truth grasshopper: Cosmetics are always about what others think of you. She couldn't believe she was an approval junkie (she was not alone, approval addiction is the most common human disease, more of it than herpes). Could not hear it until she started having back pain, really hurt. (most people will only change when the pain gets bad enough) Wrecking her quality of life. Took it getting real bad before she could grasp..."those shoes have got to go!". She (like some right here on this site) cried "But people LOVE them, and I look so much cooler, sleeker and people LOOK at me!...whole neighborhoods give me a thumbs up!" Sorry my dear, but have you looked at the unsprung weight penalty they afflict you with? Gruesome. Tram line effect multiplied, totally ruins your ride quality, braking distances miserably effected (did you mention crap brakes? I thought so.) and acceleration slowed down too ( Homer Simpson DUH! here) . Not just from shoes she cried! Sad, but true. "But I saw "The Devil Wears Prada" and EVERYONE had 22" high heels" So eat excrement...A million flies can't be wrong? "Oh my goodness" she exclaimed "I did this to myself!" Ah the self inflicted wound! Often the result of listening to the noballs at all and the slowitted. The sage did opine "find a well meaning fool, there is always one about" and so begins the road to hell (small h, not a religious reference) which is paved with good intentions. Notice how I worked in a street reference there. I would not point it out but they missed my Hedley Lamar reference just yesterday! Want to make it even worse? Just add a 1 1/2" solid rear sway bar to that pert little SS rear of yours. BUTT IMPLANTS! You really won't want to ever leave the house. DO NOT mention the Car-dashians (sic or is that sick?) But wait she said "Look at all these new supercars! 18's are tiny, 20's barely noticed! What about room for BIG BRAKES?" A Jag has... Stop the madness. Every supercar suspension component has to be adjusted by suicidal engineers just so the reptile sales department can sell crap novelty to the unknowing. The 2005 ECIRS championship car cleaned up on 15" wheels (sorry, I get nostalgic sometimes, but yes, the 15's were chosen for their unfair advantage. Physics 101). Was not this little allegory clear?

PS Pictures; No YOU don't NEED 15 X 9.5" wheels or the 15 X 8.5" wheels or even 15 X 8"'s but they all would out perform, hey even 15 x 7' would, in every way, the nightmare garbage you currently run. Yes with any of the currently available tires, and yes those Pirelli P-Zero's and Michelin PS were great in 15's but they are gone so get over over it. AND yes that's a 1 1/2" solid rear sway bar...ON AN 8000 pound FWB STRETCH LIMO DOG CAR! Notice the picture of the 1 1/2" solid front sway bar and (insultingly called by losers here as somekinda homemade) front frame brace. Those little scamps and I do mean little. (See Ghostbusters youtube on a previous post about frame gussets) But I digress.Often for English is now an alien tongue, hard for me. Both F+R sway bars match (among other things, some in the pics) for a neutral handling, as fast around Virginia International Raceway Road Course as a stock Impala SS, dog car. German Shepards, bred by Nazi's, two both over 120 pounds so 8000 pounds really isn't so hard to understand right?

PPS SPRINGS! You want me to write about SPRINGS!?!. The search is your friend. Spare yourself the stream of consciousness.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Seems like quite a list and maybe a good approach to attack it all at once. Some items I did notice missing but assume these will also be done along with the lower BJs.....upper BJs, inner/Outter tie rods, center link, idler arm, adjusters sleeves (steel or billet). If you are doing the body bushings, are you also going to do the Control arm bushings? I would. New lock nuts on the upper control arm shafts since they will be loosened for alignment or removed for bushing install.....DONT REUSE THESE.

Along with steering and suspension pieces, may not be a bad idea to consider a jeep shaft to to replace the stock b-body steering shaft/rag joint. Not sure I get the wide tire/wandering theory though. After recent overhaul/upgrade to 5/8" lower ball joints and a complete rebuild/replacement of most parts, my car tracks true and straight with good control and no wandering. This is running stock wheels and 255/50/17 tires.
The Hotchkis steering rebuild kit includes the idler arm, tie rods, and center link, and pitman arm I believe. I also got Hotchkis tie rod sleeves. I'll add upper BJ's to the list as well as ctrl arms bushings and lock nuts for upper ctrl arms shafts. Good ideas, these are the things I'm looking for. I am aware that our steering shafts suck but I don't think I'm gonna add a jeep shaft to the list quite yet due to cost. I've got a 2k $ pile of parts the way it is and this big install isn't going to be cheap so I might forego the jeep shaft for financial reasons. Great input sir
 

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PS

If in spite of my previous post you just must have extended RLCA's and 22's. You can make your car bearable with FE1 springs (most guys throw them away so a kind soul might just give them to you) F+R. Find my post on springs elsewhere for the rant. Re-adjust the Koni's to almost full soft in the rear and maybe 1/2 full hard in front. The full hard in the rear is messing up your brakes even more than the 22's. I'd bet 1/4 full hard in front would be even better but while taste's obviously differ, you're just constrained by the 22's. The very last new purchase you need or want would be a 1 1/4" solid F sway bar and 1 1/2" solid R sway bar (BMR). A true perversion of the very unfortunate new rear suspension geometry your extended RLCA's have inflicted. In too simple but brief, oem your rear suspension moved up + down in a plane very different and wildly better than the plane it now moves in. Add the 1 1/2" R bar will only exacerbate the distorted geometry. The fact is, not opinion really, I made all these choices and I remember the facts, your car will improve markedly with an FE1 F sway bar and an FE3 R sway bar. True... a 1 1/16" solid at both ends will mitigate those 22's like nothing else you could use and the Pro-Touring brace will fit effortlessly and work great ( yes, boring but only if welded) at taming the impact ratios of those 22's. By all means, ignore all this as you see fit, but "Don't say I didn't say, I didn't warn ya." For all the innocent reading this, you can not just mix and match parts and get great results (physics 101 again) and really don't you just hate to spend money to go slower?
 

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I was only stating my experience as i travel mostly rural roads. I tend to avoid the interstates but i noticed after a good rain that u can see where the depressions are in the road from the traffic. Interstate would be different bein heavily traveld by big rigs. So guess that would come into play with where the OP is driving.

Scot... guess u got lucky n got out of here befor infrastructure got much worse :p
 

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Discussion Starter #13
If in spite of my previous post you just must have extended RLCA's and 22's. You can make your car bearable with FE1 springs (most guys throw them away so a kind soul might just give them to you) F+R. Find my post on springs elsewhere for the rant. Re-adjust the Koni's to almost full soft in the rear and maybe 1/2 full hard in front. The full hard in the rear is messing up your brakes even more than the 22's. I'd bet 1/4 full hard in front would be even better but while taste's obviously differ, you're just constrained by the 22's. The very last new purchase you need or want would be a 1 1/4" solid F sway bar and 1 1/2" solid R sway bar (BMR). A true perversion of the very unfortunate new rear suspension geometry your extended RLCA's have inflicted. In too simple but brief, oem your rear suspension moved up + down in a plane very different and wildly better than the plane it now moves in. Add the 1 1/2" R bar will only exacerbate the distorted geometry. The fact is, not opinion really, I made all these choices and I remember the facts, your car will improve markedly with an FE1 F sway bar and an FE3 R sway bar. True... a 1 1/16" solid at both ends will mitigate those 22's like nothing else you could use and the Pro-Touring brace will fit effortlessly and work great ( yes, boring but only if welded) at taming the impact ratios of those 22's. By all means, ignore all this as you see fit, but "Don't say I didn't say, I didn't warn ya." For all the innocent reading this, you can not just mix and match parts and get great results (physics 101 again) and really don't you just hate to spend money to go slower?
Scot I absolutely respect your input here but I'm trying to make sense of this while pointing out a couple things.

1. I realize bigger rims are a very polarizing subject. To each his own, and I respect your opinion. I didn't spend money to make the car slower, it came with the irocs and Pirellis as well as stock wheels with lame bf Goodrichs, which the car wears about 50% of the time. Right now the car rides just about as bad with the stock wheels

2. I am aware that big wheels detract from the cars handling abilities and create a more harsh ride. I've had a deville on 22s, a park avenue on 22s, and a silverado ss on 24s, all of which seemed ride better than this car currently does. It perplexes me how a front wheel drive grandmas car with 50% more miles could out handle this much beefier car with big wheels, I am convinced my 20yr old suspension components are to blame

3. The eibach front springs and ss rear springs kind of put the car exactly at the height I want, the rear just seems a little soft, hence why I bought the airlift bags. I've heard positive feedback from other ppl about this setup, but I will take into account your advice on fe1 springs in the future if I'm not satisfied after this rebuild.

4. The bmr sway bars (front and rear) are already purchased so I'm gonna try them out and see how they feel since I've already owned them for 4 months and cannot return them. If they throw the car out of whack I'll add an fe1 front bar as you suggested. Also, I will have the front frame brace welded on as you suggest.

5. So the extended ctrl arms are bad? I spent hundreds of hours on this forum prior to purchasing all of my parts and it seemed like they were what everybody recommended to center the rear wheels and stiffen up the rear since the factory ctrl arms were like a wet noodle. Is it possible to have my mechanic adjust these or no? They seemed like a good idea but I've been wrong many times before.

6. I didn't just throw together a list of parts with names that I liked or that looked cool. I spent a lot of time researching and selected parts based on the advice of others on this forum (including you). If my parts are going to make a hodgepodge mess of my suspension than maybe I misunderstood some of the info or took things piece by piece instead of looking at the big picture.

Anyways, I respect your opinions and advice because I know you're much more educated about this than I am. I will definitely take into consideration your suggestions. All that being said, I really don't need this thing to handle like a supercar, I just need it to feel much less sloppy than it currently does. I've got a few squeaks, rattles over bumps, and just general sloppiness from what I believe is worn out factory parts. I want a nice setup, yes, but I do think replacing these worn parts would really make a huge difference.
 

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One at a time

.

1. I realize bigger rims are a very polarizing subject. To each his own, and I respect your opinion. I didn't spend money to make the car slower, it came with the irocs and Pirellis as well as stock wheels with lame bf Goodrichs, which the car wears about 50% of the time. Right now the car rides just about as bad with the stock wheels

2. I am aware that big wheels detract from the cars handling abilities and create a more harsh ride. I've had a deville on 22s, a park avenue on 22s, and a silverado ss on 24s, all of which seemed ride better than this car currently does. It perplexes me how a front wheel drive grandmas car with 50% more miles could out handle this much beefier car with big wheels, I am convinced my 20yr old suspension components are to blame

e.
My Profession , which you are welcome to explore at the Political Instability Task Force web site, requires a very unusual premise:eek:bjective truth. Opinions are universal and like one body orifice sometimes defines a person. "Opinions doth make the man". So professionally we mandate "NO Opinions", and on this topic, I will give you objective, verifiable truth; some science,some experience, all fact. By placing your faith in the opinions of many on this site, you are the victim of their ignorance, inability to judge rationally and in the sub humans here, cranial rectal insertion.
"Right now the car rides just about as bad with the stock wheels"
Please note I never said worn out parts are good. You can see from everything I've posted I'm promoting the Optimal B-body for the ambition of the owner. Not my way, not my opinion, the science that produces what the owner wants. Everything needs to work as designed for that. It is a given, and consistent with all I've ever written here, that you should replace worn out parts.
"2. I am aware that big wheels detract from the cars handling abilities and create a more harsh ride. I've had a deville on 22s, a park avenue on 22s, and a silverado ss on 24s, all of which seemed ride better than this car currently does."
Please reflect: Koni's rock hard, horribly mis- aligned rear suspension geometry on poly bushings and your gruesomely inappropriately mismatched springs (no opinion here:facts) have combined to perfectly answer your question. It is as if you chose a wife based only on how she looks and ignored her crack use, AA membership and terrifying erotic history.
and
" It perplexes me how a front wheel drive grandmas car with 50% more miles could out handle this much beefier car with big wheels, I am convinced my 20yr old suspension components are to blame"
Oh yes those rascally old suspension components have got to go; BUT grandma's car does not have the analog of an after market shock set on "Ultra-violence" nor springs for "Spastic body movement" or a rear suspension, wait for it, with truly retarded re-engineering just so your friends won't realize your wife's clothes don't fit (or your cars body) AND you've bastardized the pinion angle so badly that acceleration, braking and ride are ALL compromised.
Do NOT take offense, non of this is an ad hominem insult or some jerk like put down. The jerks have misled you for various reasons, some not jerk inspired but just ignorant, not even stupid, just lacking facts.
An old book once asserted:"The truth shall set you free"
I give you truth, not opinion. Riffing a little here, it also said "The poor will always be with you" and so ...Those with a poverty of facts will always be with you too. Life is better when you are deaf to them.
 

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"Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up." Fail.

3. The eibach front springs and ss rear springs kind of put the car exactly at the height I want, the rear just seems a little soft, hence why I bought the airlift bags. I've heard positive feedback from other ppl about this setup, but I will take into account your advice on fe1 springs in the future if I'm not satisfied after this rebuild.
A little blast from the past...

The company Coil Spring Specialties has been around a long time, produce excellent products at a reasonable price. They encourage anyone enthusiastic about the performance of their car to always replaced springs in full sets, or at the very least to replace in pairs, both front or both back. Not because they want to increase their sales, but for factual performance reasons. Like worn spring on one end with new springs on the other are no longer bounce frequency balanced. Car will be clumsier than it could be with 4 new springs. They will also confirm that a lot of the information about springs on this site is wrong. (info: some ignorant,as in just not factual; some stupid,as in dumb and proud of it) They will confirm that any cut front spring, by any means, ruins the balance of the bounce frequency between F+R and given the weight distribution of a B-body, it's impossible to find a balanced R spring that is not too stiff. Bone headed idea's like taking 750 Lbs. front springs and chopping off a coil or more requires so hard a rear spring for equal BF that on a road not billiard table smooth rear traction is hopelessly compromised as is rear roll resistance. It may corner flat but it's ultimate grip is reduced and all performance is degraded. You can not jam in spacers, bolt in goofy lifts or even worse "slam it by duh! let's heat up the coils" without ruining the physical relationship between F+R. Want a visual. Take out all 4 shocks and bounce the car. With any matched set of oem or aftermarket springs the car will stay level as it bounces. That's because all of the OEM+aftermarket providers match the BF of their spring sets. With any mismatched springs, cut springs, jam in spacers, bolt in goofy lifts or let's heat up the coils or other perversions, the car will not stay level as it bounces. Back on the road, shocks installed, they are worse. Even if the owner delusionally claims "It handles like a dream" or "it rides so nice"...The handling, ride and braking is only at it's best with the BF matched OEM or Aftermarket sets.
Now take out your shocks and bounce the car. Nice ride height, just as you wanted BUT everything else about how the car moves, STANDING STILL, is a Mongolian cluster f***. Really, no opinion, fact. Spastic? Clumsy? Weird? Oh yeah! "HEY MAN, I saw your wife. She is UGLY!..." Perhaps that's OK because "She sure can cook" Nice analogy huh?
You can not fix a car perverted with mis matched BF springs. Can not. Not with any component or combination of components. End of line.
So remove your springs and replace them with any matched set, oem or after market, and I positively, hand on my heart, insure you will improve your car so far beyond your current set up that words fail me. From now on you want to be as attracted to peoples opinions as you should be to people who's intelligence is in their rectum.
 

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Superior Attitude and Superior Preparation

4. The bmr sway bars (front and rear) are already purchased so I'm gonna try them out and see how they feel since I've already owned them for 4 months and cannot return them. If they throw the car out of whack I'll add an fe1 front bar as you suggested. Also, I will have the front frame brace welded on as you suggest.
The rear 1 1/2" solid BMR bar is my all time favorite rear sway bar for all FWB Limo's that weigh between 7000 and 8000 pounds. For all others it is a wildly difficult item to use effectively, and for you? Never. Those wheels, tires and control arms can NEVER combine with that 1 1/2" bar admirably. Can you locate an opinion that contradicts this. SURE! (opinion/rectum; everybody got at least one) The fact is you need such a combination like a fish needs a bicycle. THE worst idea in the history of bad ideas. So let's find a cost effective alternative:Sell the Jumbo to someone building the ultimate dog car, Limo+Jumbo + Fido= good. So you still have a nice 1 1/4" solid front BMR sway bar and a $$$ from selling Jumbo. Now beg, borrow, steal or buy, even used, a nice solid 1 1/4" rear sway bar. Hotchkis had to give away a whole bunch of 1 3/8" hollow rear bars to customers of theirs that found their 1 1/4" solid rear bar broken on the street, but both have the exact same roll resistance so find a 1 3/8" hollow Hotchkis rear bar and that's perfect too. (TO Mental Defectives: memo: diameter no matter, roll resistance do matter, no care F bar smaller (like you) diameter dan R bar, no matter in *** case. See I only insult those who insult me first but then...hateful)
Worthwhile aside: Duke Wayne famously said in character.."I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to others. I require the same from them"
"I don't do these things to others"... requires extrapolation; I don't initiate these things, but GOD help those who initiate them with me.
My D I ...before the flood, the crash and Brittany...(a Wayne fan, Ya THINK?) told us the only other thing you need in life is "Superior Attitude and Superior Preparation".
Now get those sway bars RIGHT for YOU, Your ambition satisfied by Superior Preparation and you just might find yourself with a Superior Attitude.
 

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5. So the extended ctrl arms are bad? I spent hundreds of hours on this forum prior to purchasing all of my parts and it seemed like they were what everybody recommended to center the rear wheels and stiffen up the rear since the factory ctrl arms were like a wet noodle. Is it possible to have my mechanic adjust these or no? They seemed like a good idea but I've been wrong many times before.
Get ready for the screaming from the cheap seats. "everybody recommended" we have already disabused you of ever falling victim to THAT again. Here is the adjustment you can... cost effectively, have done. Someone here must have a set of OEM U+L control arms. Ask for a donation of same or offer a dollar (full set), ignore the fashion whores who whine about the wheels not being centered, you bought a taxi, the wheels are not centered, get over it. The suspension geometry requires you live with a GM fashion faux pas, man up. Sell the extended to a fashion whore, install the oem U+L control arms. Cheap seats! Shut the hell up. You have concrete wheels and tires that weigh way weigh too much so YOU need the oem junk to compensate. Ugly truth. Those "wet noodles" will filter out some of misery telegraphing from the wheels/tires. You'll also repair the obscene perversion you inflicted on your pinion angle, improve your handling, braking and ride, shove your drive shaft back into the transmission, eliminate weird vibrations from the goofy drive shaft semi insertion (calm down witless) into trans and make the god's of the blessed acceleration (Blues Bros) smile. Nothing but fact, not an opinion to be found. "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered!" Who is number one?
You are,
number six.
 

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Now you know.

Scot I absolutely respect your input here but I'm trying to make sense of this while pointing out a couple things.
6. I didn't just throw together a list of parts with names that I liked or that looked cool. I spent a lot of time researching and selected parts based on the advice of others on this forum (including you). If my parts are going to make a hodgepodge mess of my suspension than maybe I misunderstood some of the info or took things piece by piece instead of looking at the big picture.


As we say here at the shop, your result can only be as good as your information. Trust not the great unwashed. Now you know.

All that being said, I really don't need this thing to handle like a supercar, I just need it to feel much less sloppy than it currently does. I've got a few squeaks, rattles over bumps, and just general sloppiness from what I believe is worn out factory parts. I want a nice setup, yes, but I do think replacing these worn parts would really make a huge difference.
To repeat, replace worn parts = good. But " I want a nice setup, yes,"
Now you know how.
While I was only lurking at this site a few years ago I read a particularly vile group of exchange between a very knowledge rich forum member and a vendor sales reptile with his pathetic gaggle of sycophantically impaired cheerleaders. In disgust I watched the truthful be
insulted, wronged and eventually withdraw leaving the site devoid of the very kind of people you needed when making your choices.
They were the noballsatall, witless and dinky jerks you need never suffer again. Now you will have the nice set up you deserved.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Scot, thanks for your input here. That's a lot to chew on right now but when taken piece by piece I think I can learn a couple things here.

About the swaybars. Is oversteer your primary concern with the BMR swaybar pair? I could see how that big rear bar could cause that. Is that the reason you suggest a smaller rear bar? I'm just making sure I'm understanding this correctly. That sort of makes sense to me but I could be interpreting that wrong. If I don't like them it shouldn't be too hard to find a smaller rear bar like you say

The spring situation really pisses me off bc I should have a very nice set of matching eibach springs but the set I was sent put the rear of my car MUCH lower than the front. I'm just one of many on this forum having problems with eibachs springs. I read about that after it was too late. The front was/is at my desired height and the back was SLAMMED. One of my factory front springs was actually broken so the only thing I could do was put my stock back springs in. This puts the car where I want it but the rear seems soft and can't hold 4 passengers ,thus the full hard shock setting and purchasing the airlift1000 bags. Seemed pretty logical but we'll see. I might have to swallow my pride and get a Hotchkis set or something if I don't like the feel of this spring setup.

About the pinion angle... I understand how extended lca's can put ur pinion angle off a bit. Will a longer driveshaft help with this? During the winter I'm going to get an eaton posi and 3.73 gears put in so I could plan on a nice driveshaft too. I know running a higher gear can possibly cause vibration with a factory DS so I've seen that hidden expense coming.

If i address those 3 areas, in which i think you have a very valid point, i think ill be in better shape. This old girl just needs a little love under there and i think she'll be solid and hopefully be a lot more confidence inspiring. Thanks for the help. Little hard to follow sometimes, but, that's alright.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
And i just wanna say for the record, Scot, since you strongly expressed your negative opinion about my "hot wife's crappy cooking"...... although the irocs may be a bit heavier, I think you would either be a liar or have poor taste if you said they didn't look fantastic on the car. For all the panties theyve dropped I can deal with a small compromise in ride feel :grin2:. And after all, I think aesthetics is one of the biggest reasons a lot of us own these cars. They just look damn good! I know I break necks and get compliments on mine almost every time I drive it. Call me crazy, but I like that! I understand the penalty the wheels inflict and I'll live with that. That being said, I still want to do the best I can at making the car ride nicely. At least thats the goal here. As you say, its not ALL about looks.
 
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