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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've owned many b-bodies, but this is my first time doing a cam swap. This post might belong on the fbody forums, but this forum feels more like home to me.

So I am hoping someone will put their .02 in.

So pulled out my LT1 out of my old caprice before i junked the car.
With it being in my storage unit I was itching to find a car to put the engine into.
Came across a convertible 95 Trans Am. The car is in pretty crappy shape, but good to hone my skills on. Apparently it has an engine knock but I bought it for el cheapo so I'm not too upset about it.

The plan is to rebuild my caprice LT1 bottom end (stock parts). Ditch the iron heads and slap the aluminum T/A heads on. I have a very capable machinist that will do some work on the heads before i put them on. The goal is to have a fun, somewhat fuel efficient if need be daily driver. Somewhere around 400 flywheel hp will do. On a budget of course(as usual).

The cams i've considered are XFI 466, LT4 hot cam and the crane 227.
Pretty happy with all of their specs, XFI seems to be most expensive out of the bunch, LT4 is convenient because jegs has a kit with majority of the stuff needed, 227 seems to be ideal since i dont want to do a TC and gears (car is an A4).
It will have supporting bolt ons like intake, headers, tune...

So the list of questions:

1. Which setup is the best bang for the buck out of the three (setup being, cam, rr's, springs, etc) and whats better to try to find a kit or piece things together? does 227 come in a kit?
2. has anyone ran the cheapo knock off of the crane golds rrs or should i just go with the elgin rockers. the RRs will be 1.6 there is no querstions about that.
3. Do i need to upgrade injectors/fuel pump for either/any of the three.

Thats pretty much it. thank you.
I'll be doing all the work myself, except the machine work...
 

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for "your" stated goals, the 466 or 227. easy pics would be Comp cams ultra pro mags and 918 springs but a more economy approach could be springs from Alex. I would not cheap out on RR.

You should be fine with the stock 24 lb injectors for these small cams

400 FWHP is easily doable with a small cam/head package with a very tame, smog legal if that maters, street car

stock pistons are good so if you can get away with just a block hone and re-ring that will save $. Otherwise .030 pistons but don't cheap out on low end heavy pistons. polish crank, new bearings and have rods resized with ARP fasteners. Stock oil pimp with the GM higher pressure spring and a metal oil pump drive shaft

the more "attention" you spend on the heads the better
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks for the reply BallSS.

so the stock TC with the 227 should be fine right?
sorry if this is a stupid querstion but who's Alex?
I'll stick with the all stock bottom end, rather spend more money on the headwork...

the price difference is making me lean more towards 227. whats the cheapest good rr's you'd recommend? the crane golds?
 

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the 227 will be "OK" with the stock stall. I suspect the 466 will make more HP but the 227 is a old solid good TQ cam for a mild LT1 build

Alex parts. I don't have direct experience with them but have read good reviews

http://www.alexsparts.com/lt1-valve-spring-kit-includes-springs-retainers-locks-cups/

I have the Crane Gold narrow body 1:6 RR, no problems, on my original 350 motor that I will put in a 70 Nova. They will clear stock LT1 valve covers without any trimming
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
man this stuff gets pricey quick.

lt4 kit with the rockers for 600 bucks seems appealing too, but because of the tc i have to make the decision on this setup. Thanks for your help BallSS

http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249/07-466-8/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710845531
COMP Cams 07-466-8 - Comp Cams ''XFI'' (Xtreme Fuel Injection) Hydraulic Roller Camshafts

http://www.alexsparts.com/lt1-valve-spring-kit-includes-springs-retainers-locks-cups/
Alex's spring kit and pushrods

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/nal-12499225/overview/
LS7 lifters

http://autoplicity.com/products/423...tent=423656NOFITMENT&utm_campaign=GSNOFITMENT
Crane Gold 1.6 RRs not sure if these will work hope someone will fix me if they dont, not ordering right this second anyway. got to start selling my underware to save up the cheddar.

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/clo-c-3039/overview/make/pontiac
Cloyes Timing chain set

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/mel-55070
high pressure oil pump spring kit? do i need five springs?

think i'll throw in a walbro fuel pump just to be on the safe side.
 

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The 227 cam with 1.6 rockers and LT4 springs?

I wouldn't do it. The LT4 springs (.525" max lift with LT4 valves) won't be able to handle the lift of the 227 cam, particularly with the LT1 (or heavier) valves.

I would predict multiple broken springs on the exhaust valves if you go this route.

I would go with the Comp Cams '918' beehive springs; a bit pricy but worth it.

KW
 

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OP

you don't want to use LT4 springs with any cam you get...period

the 466 will really want 918 bee hive springs, Comp

the crane gold RR you list appear to be for Ford.

the oil pump springs...no. if your stock oil pump is good, just buy the GM spring for it I don't have that part #

I would suggest buying 7/16" ARP rocker studs for your AL heads and get 7/16" size RR. Your build is pretty mild so you could still use SA rockers but many go with NSA and run guide plates (ISKY adjustable) and harden chromolly push rods
 

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Given your stated goals you can save money by having the guy that does your heads set them up with good springs and buy a set of Elgin 1.6 self-aligning non roller rockers. Re use the stock lifters and push rods. Take Rogers advice on the short block. The 228 aka GM 84.5 cam is a torque cam and you won't need high rpms to enjoy the car. The stock Impala converter locked at 2,200 rpm IRRC and with 3.42 gears in back the 227 cam worked fine. You can set the idle at about 800 rpm and its hard to tell the car has a cam in it. Or leave the idle at 650 and it will lope.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Sorry I should have clarified.

I was just saying that at $595 from jegs the lt4 hot cam kit that comes with RR's looked pretty appealing... I wasn't planning on going the lt4 route. just for general knowledge the lt4 springs that come with the kit are not to be used even with the lt4 kit?

I've read that the XFI 466 likes beehives, so I'm guessing Alex's springs wont work? :(

Man I sure am glad I posted my shopping list on here, dont know how well those ford rr's would work in my setup. Thanks again BallSS :)..

AllenIDOXLR8

I hate you (kinda like my buddy hated my last night for not letting him pay for a hooker but thanked me this morning)...

I guess for the T/A in order to justify the project to myself in my head this is the setup...
And please chime in again I really do appreciate your guy's help.

http://www.race-mart.com/Crane_Cams-416811.html
Crane 228 Cam. Dag on 500 bucks just for the cam?! I hope i found the wrong one.
The lt4 cam is only $200 :(, with the LT4 i'll have to get a stall converter right?

http://autoplicity.com/products/189...ent=1899003NOFITMENT&utm_campaign=GSNOFITMENT

non roller elign rockers... :( but it makes sense.

http://www.jegs.com/i/ARP/070/134-7121/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710593351

7/16 arp studs as per BallSS recipe

still
http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...w/make/pontiac
Cloyes Timing chain set

and

http://www.alexsparts.com/lt1-valve-...rs-locks-cups/
Alex's spring kit and pushrods

i'm a little concerned about the lifters tapping... they are only $135...
 

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.......just for general knowledge the lt4 springs that come with the kit are not to be used even with the lt4 kit?.......
Not with 1.6 rockers and LT1 or aftermarker valves. The LT4 springs are barely better than the stock LT1 springs.....I wouldn't use them for ANYTHING more than stock LT1 cams and 1.5 rockers.

Except for LT4 valves, pretty much everything else is a bit heavy for these springs.

And any cam with with 1.6 rockers that gives you lift close to the hot cam will put terrible stress on these springs.

I don't know much at all about the 'Alex' springs.....but I do know that if you cheap out on springs and just one 'gives-up-the-ghost', you could lose your engine.

Comp Cams Beehive Spring; Part #26918-16.

KW
 

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$500 bucks for a Crane 227 cam?? .......skip it! There's nothing magic about that cam. $200 for a Hotcam and installing it at 106-107 ICL would be smarter IMO. If you really want the characteristics of the 227 cam, and a slight bump in midrange torque to boot, get a custom Comp grind "LT1 3312/3314HR112+5". Far less than $500!
The spring kits from Alexparts are used by a lot of people, just not very well known on this forum. Several people I know running them for years with no issues. I'd trust them just as well as the Crane and Comp options. None of those places make their own springs, so they're all susceptible to bad batches, supplier quality issues, etc.
 

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i am planning on a very similar build, or at least dreaming of one. i think the link you have to the 227 is wrong. http://www.race-mart.com/Crane_Cams-416513.html

i have read tons of good stuff about the 227, and the price tag seems to reflect that. i always tune in when i see a cam thread as i like to absorb all the info i can.

i have decided when i get ready to do this, i was going to call Elliots port works, and say "send me stuff".
 

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The 228 aka GM 84.5 cam is a torque cam and you won't need high rpms to enjoy the car..
http://www.race-mart.com/Crane_Cams-416811.html
Crane 228 Cam. Dag on 500 bucks just for the cam?! I hope i found the wrong one.
yes, you found the wrong one. I think Allen was referring to the gm 845 which is crane p/n 109821. SSupercoolSS gave the correct link for the crane 227 (104227). You can get them for less on amazon, but they are still pricy compared to a custom cam.
 

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Sorry I should have clarified.

. just for general knowledge the lt4 springs that come with the kit are not to be used even with the lt4 kit?

I've read that the XFI 466 likes beehives, so I'm guessing Alex's springs wont work? :(

...
LT4 heads had sodium filled valves (lighter) than LT1 solid steel valves. So using LT4 springs on heavier valves is not advised. They are "OK" at best with stock "L4 heads" that have the lighter valves

The XFI grind cams have faster ramp lobes similar to "LS" cams vs older XE grind cams where bee hive springs are used. IIRC some of the custom grind cams Lloyd does uses XFI based lobes. I had Comp 987 springs with 10 degree locks on my heads when I swapped them over to my 383 with the 466 cam. They also worked but I did swap to the 26918 springs and have had those on the car for several years now

IMHO going "budget" on valve train parts is not something I would do. 26918 springs, Comp 7/16" (requires ARP 7/16" studs) Ultra Pro Mags 1:6 RR, Trick Flo .080 thick wall PR (most likely 7.200" stock length) is the way I would go. The 466 may be the least expensive "off the shelf" cam compared to what 227 cams seem to cost. A custom grind from Lloyd though may be the best overall choice.

other things you should do is new Viton valve stem seals (FelPro), ARP or Morosso steel oil pump drive shaft
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
dang $400 for a cam alone is still pretty pricey.

I'm not trying to cheap out on the top end. Just dont want to overspend. I'll be happy with it being a mild engine. So I dont really want to pay top dollar for top end parts when it can get by with decent parts.

thinking i'll roll with 224/230 .573/.568 112 LSA. cam from Lloyd.

still alex's springs. non roller 1.6 rockers the elign ones.

think those will hold up?

thanks for all your help fellas
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks Rocko I always value your opinion.
Do I need to bump up to a bigger tb with this setup or will the stock one will flow enough?
It will get pacesetter headers regardless, just not sure if the bigger tb would be a waste of money
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Think I've got the parts list assembled. Please chime in if I'm missing something.
Hopefully other people that are doing a similar build will get some of their querstions answered here with this.

Rebuild kit:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fem-csmhp765-322?seid=srese1

Cam LE 224/230 .573/.568 112 LSA. it is an f-body so according to LLoyd's site I'll get away with the stock TC
http://elliottsportworks.com/?page_id=32

Elgin 1.6 7/16 non roller rockers
http://autoplicity.com/products/189...ent=1899003NOFITMENT&utm_campaign=GSNOFITMENT

Cloyes Timing Kit
http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts...+Timing+Set+Cloyes+93-94+Chevrolet+Timing+Set

Alex's Springs and probably his pushrods
http://www.alexsparts.com/products/LT1-DUAL-SPRINGS,-BARE-SPRINGS-FOR-UP-TO-.650"-LIFT-LT1.html

Valve stem seals (BallSS are these the right ones?)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-ss72527?seid=srese1

Aluminum heads. I'll post up the details on headwork once we sit down with the machinist. And I'll see if porting the intake manifold would make sense.

Thanks for all your help
 

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rebuild kit: kit may be OK (read not the best pistons)...don't know head gasket thickness it comes with (head & block machining, how far piston is in/out of hole makes a BIG difference). you should not run HV pump unless you run looser bearing clearances. will have to bore block .030 so you will have a 355 with this kit

cam: LE cam is good but you need heads to match

elgin rockers: wtf...stamped rockers. I believe Rocko was referring to "roller tip" ones

cloyes: yes

alex springs: yes

valve stem seals: no. you need the correct ones. if you are having head work done, confirm if the valve stem guides have been machined down or not. if not get stock size full jacket fel pro seals or order the correct size they were machined to
 
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