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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
my drivetrain is about hit its last 140mph. i want to take it out , and sell it as a whole while its still useable though - now heres my situation - i can get ahold of a z28 motor, trans and everything included with it right here in town for relatively cheap. has anyone done this swap? do i need to change my fuel pump? please, im lost on this subject.. cuz i dont want to just put another 265 hp lt1 back in if i can help it. - dave my sn is rokitship
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Stock for stock I think you car would be slower with the Z28 engine. It will lack the lowend torque needed for these cars. It is the same tranny but I believe there are some differences that will stop a direct boltin, tailshaft?. There are a bunch of reasons why throwing Camaro parts at a b-body may not make it faster. For starters stock to stock the aluminum heads flow less than the b-body iron heads. Is your current engine damaged, or are you just hoping to make use of a good deal that presented itself?
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yup. You could take a Z28 LT1 and T56 and just drop that puppy right in there. Might need to get a BBHP 6-speed kit first though. :D ;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
well this deal is what came up.. i mean, you guys obviously have more experience with it than me. obviously i want the most bang for the buck.. im just not happy with the impala motor. so, if im pulling it out, what would you guys suggest? i can get the z28 drivetrain for 1500 bucks with all accessories. plus, whatever i need off my drivetrain. different cam? i drive it every day, on long trips.. im not concerned with gas mileage so much - thanks for the advice in advance - i want to make this swap worthwhile - dave -- also - how much power loss do you think this motor has having 130k on it? it was driven hard.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I don't think there would be much power loss at all on the impala motor at 130K miles. You never know though.

Here's what I'd do if faced with same situation,
I'd get that Z28 motor and tranny.
Put the tranny away as a spare.

Use the z28 motor as the new project.
Take the z28 motor all apart and refresh it with new bearings and leave the rings as found if they are in spec.

Get an LT4 heads cam kit from Dal Slabaugh at 800-362-9494 for about $2100 bucks?

Of just leave the z28 heads untouched and put in a zz3 cam. (saves money).

Of course I'd make my head spin trying to decide on the course of action.

Karl Ellwein
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 96capriceMGR:
Stock for stock I think you car would be slower with the Z28 engine. It will lack the lowend torque needed for these cars. It is the same tranny but I believe there are some differences that will stop a direct boltin, tailshaft?. There are a bunch of reasons why throwing Camaro parts at a b-body may not make it faster. For starters stock to stock the aluminum heads flow less than the b-body iron heads. Is your current engine damaged, or are you just hoping to make use of a good deal that presented itself?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What makes you think that the Impala LT1 has so much more low end torque than the F-body LT1? Would this rational be expected were in a Corvette LT1 instead of an F-body LT1? Show me some imperical data about those iron heads flowing more than the aluminum heads. If they do, it probably won't be more than %5. I seem to remember a lot of Impala owners here switching over to stock F-body and Y-body aluminum heads with no port work. Why would they do that? You can believe what you want, but that doesn't mean it's factual. My opinion is to take that Z28 motor and swap out the valve train with the LT4 hot cam kit and reprogram the PCM. Get some good headers as well.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yes, the Impala LT1 has more torque (and at lower RPM) than either the Camaro OR Vette LT1. It's due to the cam design. And yes, the iron LT1 heads do outflow the (developed earlier) aluminum LT1 heads.

Very few Impala owners swap to UNTOUCHED LT1 Aluminum heads for the above reason. More than a few have swapped over to PORTED aluminum LT1 heads (which obviously are gonna outflow stock iron heads if the head porter is competent) though.

96CapriceMGR is right : a swap to a STOCK Z28 motor (which is what is being proposed here) is gonna SLOW DOWN the car. Not by a lot, but it'll happen. Now swap to a NON-STOCK Z28 motor and the equation obviously changes a bit
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Karl Ellwein:
I don't think there would be much power loss at all on the impala motor at 130K miles. You never know though.

Here's what I'd do if faced with same situation,
I'd get that Z28 motor and tranny.
Put the tranny away as a spare.

Use the z28 motor as the new project.
Take the z28 motor all apart and refresh it with new bearings and leave the rings as found if they are in spec.

Get an LT4 heads cam kit from Dal Slabaugh at 800-362-9494 for about $2100 bucks?

Of just leave the z28 heads untouched and put in a zz3 cam. (saves money).

Of course I'd make my head spin trying to decide on the course of action.

Karl Ellwein
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If this is something that you want to do as a hobbie or whatever, then more power to you.
But if you're just worried that your LT1 has lost all power, just give it a complete tune up and then spend the $50-75 to get it dynoed (a completely stock B-body LT1 will dyno 210-225 RWHP). I'm willing you bet you have at least 50-70K more miles to go before it starts losing power (and possibly considerably more).

SFI engines don't wear out as fast as carbureted ones due to the fact that the gas flow is controlled so well that there's very little extra around to "wash" away the oil on the cylinder walls.

And I agree with Karl, for more power, just put the ZZ3 cam in your current engine. It wakes it up nicely.

Good luck whatever you decide.
-Tim
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
My suggestion: Buy the combo, put it on a stand and rebuild it, hop it up while outside the car, then in another 10k or so miles, swap it in and you'll be smokin'
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I am sure more than a few sets of stock aluminum heads are in b-bodies because people assume they are better. I bet a few have even done the stock F or Y body cam "because it makes more power". I am just glad some people find this forum and ask questions before they try parts. No offense meant to anyone it does sound logical to put those parts on because those cars have higher HP numbers, but there is more to speed than peak HP.
If you are willing to do some work to the motor, like a cam or having the heads ported, the Z motor may be a good idea. I found a low milage RoadMaster engine I plan to get and mod before installing, I am waiting till I start my new job though. If you suspect a power loss in your current motor why not do a compression test, if that is good a thorough tuneup might be all that is needed.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AutocroSSer:
Yes, the Impala LT1 has more torque (and at lower RPM) than either the Camaro OR Vette LT1. It's due to the cam design. And yes, the iron LT1 heads do outflow the (developed earlier) aluminum LT1 heads.

Very few Impala owners swap to UNTOUCHED LT1 Aluminum heads for the above reason. More than a few have swapped over to PORTED aluminum LT1 heads (which obviously are gonna outflow stock iron heads if the head porter is competent) though.

96CapriceMGR is right : a swap to a STOCK Z28 motor (which is what is being proposed here) is gonna SLOW DOWN the car. Not by a lot, but it'll happen. Now swap to a NON-STOCK Z28 motor and the equation obviously changes a bit
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You may be right, but until I see some data it's just another biased and uneducated opinion.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Chris 94Z A4,

Please do search on the subjects before you "call people out". These topics have been discused over and over and over. It has been proven on many of flow tests that the stock iron heads flow better than the stock aluminium ones. Also, there have been many dyno tests showing that the impala makes more down low torque. Which is needed for moving our heavy beasts.
Furthermore calling EDs "Autocrossers" words, or anyones on this forum, "uneducated" is just plain ignorant! :mad:


Mav
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
thanks for all the input guys -- right now, heres what ive got to deal with - im leaning now away from the z28 motor and trans.. i will still need a transmission though, as mine is quickly burning up second gear.. i just changed the filter and fluid, and its already burnt. can you tell me more about the zz3 cam? i pretty psyched if this is a driveable cam. would i need to reprogram the comp too? im lost when it comes to switching cams. ive only done straight motor swaps before. never had the experience with comparing cams before - how much is the zz3, and where can i look for it? thanks again - dave
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I've always been a believer that an engine gains power with time as long as you haven't lost a ring or blown a head gasket. My 93 Z28 ran a 12.9 and a best MPH of 106.7. I had 170k miles before I wrecked the car. I blew a head gasket at 120k (running 13.3's on the stock motor) and after I pulled the heads and port matched to the intake, a [email protected] The bottom end was never touched, never blew smoke, and ran like a raped ape. The fact I had 170k miles on my original transmission ultimately was hurting me, but at last dyno test a few months ago, I did [email protected] RWHP, [email protected] RWTQ (TCI 3500 stall non lockup, slipping tranny).

They're saying you'll lose power with no low end torque, but how many people in here have a CC306 or similar cam in their ISS with a big stall and never complain the car doesn't make power under 3000 rpms. 3.73 gears, 3500 yank or vig stall, you won't cry about not having torque
And you can put the new converter on while you swap the motor...
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DaytonaFBody:
I've always been a believer that an engine gains power with time as long as you haven't lost a ring or blown a head gasket. My 93 Z28 ran a 12.9 and a best MPH of 106.7. I had 170k miles before I wrecked the car. I blew a head gasket at 120k (running 13.3's on the stock motor) and after I pulled the heads and port matched to the intake, a [email protected] The bottom end was never touched, never blew smoke, and ran like a raped ape. The fact I had 170k miles on my original transmission ultimately was hurting me, but at last dyno test a few months ago, I did [email protected] RWHP, [email protected] RWTQ (TCI 3500 stall non lockup, slipping tranny).

They're saying you'll lose power with no low end torque, but how many people in here have a CC306 or similar cam in their ISS with a big stall and never complain the car doesn't make power under 3000 rpms. 3.73 gears, 3500 yank or vig stall, you won't cry about not having torque
And you can put the new converter on while you swap the motor...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Be careful posting those times with the F-body LT1. There are individuals here that will tell you that you can run faster with a B-body LT1 and that you should just accept their opinion as "fact" because of the "cam design" and the "better flowing iron heads".
No data is needed to support these claims because it is well known throughout the automotive industry that all B-body LT1's are more potent that F-body and Y-body LT1's.
Do not deviate from this mentality as MadMav will get mad out you and make a little mean face at you. He did that to me and I am still shaking. What will I ever do now that MadMav has put his foot down?
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris 94Z A4:
No data is needed to support these claims because it is well known throughout the automotive industry that all B-body LT1's are more potent that F-body and Y-body LT1's.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here is the flow data as compiled.
http://www.malcams.com/legacy/misc/headflow.htm

This has been perused millions of times. If you havben't seen it, then try not too look too stupid. Now, remove your foot from your mouth, your head from your ass, and STFU.

[ 08-18-2002: Message edited by: GhoSSt ]
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks Mav and GhoSSt.

Chris : I'd strongly suggest in the future, you research a bit more before making blanket statements......those that know me know that I try and make sure that what I say is RIGHT.....and in this case it is!
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
WOW!!!! "Here's another face" :eek: That hurt!

Unfortunatly I have no life since I am in Korea, without my SS, so I spend all my time reading the forum. I really wish that all this data had been compiled by me, but it hasn't. I just pass on what I have learned. I often misquote people on the forum, but when I do, I am quick to apolgize. Wish others were the same.

Mav
 
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