Based on advice from friends, it looks like this engine will be coming out for the cam install. Since I am also replacing the trans, I have been convinced it is less work this way. The silver lining is that I get to paint the engine.
Back from the dead
81 - 100 of 135 Posts
Engine and trans will be out tomorrow. We almost finished today, but ended up needing to make a Harbor Freight run... then it started raining.
With the engine and trans out, I will take care of all the grinding/painting/etc. that needs to be done in these areas. Floorboards, crossmember, core support, body mounts, and frame. I will definitely document this process with pics.
With the engine and trans out, I will take care of all the grinding/painting/etc. that needs to be done in these areas. Floorboards, crossmember, core support, body mounts, and frame. I will definitely document this process with pics.
Just degreased the engine bay for the first time since it became empty. More degreasings will be needed. I can't believe how shiny this frame looks underneath all the crap. I'm also in the process of removing all the excess junk that I don't need. Anybody want an OEM Fleetwood air compressor assembly?
I've been doing a bunch of reading the past couple days, and I have decided to perform a couple of small modifications aimed at efficiency and longevity.
First, I'm going to delete the entire oil cooling assembly. With a 160* thermostat and synthetic oil, I don't think it's necessary. I'm going to use a filter adapter from a first gen SBC, so that I can use the bigger first gen filter (PF454). By eliminating all of the cooler lines and fittings, I'm eliminating both clutter and potential leaks. Additionally, I should see a bump in oil pressure as a result of having less plumbing.
Next, I am going to run my power steering return line through what used to be the factory oil cooler. I will also add an inline magnetic filter.
Finally, I'm adding an external trans cooler (Hayden 405). This part of the plan is not new, but related. I will be running my own fresh lines directly from the trans to the cooler and back. I am using 3/8" rubber line, and 3/8" inverted flare fittings that have 5/8-18 threads (the size needed for the cooler lines on our cars). Personally, I don't like the idea of running any other fluids through the radiator other than coolant. Considering coolant is generally much hotter than other fluids, I worry that I will be heating these fluids more often than cooling them. I prefer the idea of keeping each system separate.
I've been doing a bunch of reading the past couple days, and I have decided to perform a couple of small modifications aimed at efficiency and longevity.
First, I'm going to delete the entire oil cooling assembly. With a 160* thermostat and synthetic oil, I don't think it's necessary. I'm going to use a filter adapter from a first gen SBC, so that I can use the bigger first gen filter (PF454). By eliminating all of the cooler lines and fittings, I'm eliminating both clutter and potential leaks. Additionally, I should see a bump in oil pressure as a result of having less plumbing.
Next, I am going to run my power steering return line through what used to be the factory oil cooler. I will also add an inline magnetic filter.
Finally, I'm adding an external trans cooler (Hayden 405). This part of the plan is not new, but related. I will be running my own fresh lines directly from the trans to the cooler and back. I am using 3/8" rubber line, and 3/8" inverted flare fittings that have 5/8-18 threads (the size needed for the cooler lines on our cars). Personally, I don't like the idea of running any other fluids through the radiator other than coolant. Considering coolant is generally much hotter than other fluids, I worry that I will be heating these fluids more often than cooling them. I prefer the idea of keeping each system separate.
Joined
·
641 Posts
Yes please...
Joined
·
8,860 Posts
Porting and blueprinting the factory oil pump and rear main cap is an easy and fun mod while the motor is out. I just used a Dremel and it was pretty obvious how to get oil moving more smoothly through there. I even radiused the oil ports in the block where the filter/adapter screws on.
Agreed on removing the oil cooler and running synthetic. That's what the Corvettes had, and the PCM can monitor oil temp if you want to add a temp sensor to the port next to the oil filter. You may have to run a wire to the PCM but the capability is there.
For the trans, the biggest heat generator is the torque converter. If it's locked, it's not generating heat. Shifting is a momentary heat load, and I'm convinced that proper shifts will never overheat the clutches. I disassembled my performance rebuilt 4L60E after running 71 drag strip runs back to back one cold november day and there was no evidence of overheating on the band or clutches.
Do remember that oil temp (engine and transmission) needs to be at least 150 if not higher to get to the correct operating viscosity. And the transmission has no ability to remove internal condensation/moisture if it doesn't get close to 212F now and then. That's why it's valuable to have the transmission oil run through the radiator. Heat exchanger failures, while fatal, are also rare.
Agreed on removing the oil cooler and running synthetic. That's what the Corvettes had, and the PCM can monitor oil temp if you want to add a temp sensor to the port next to the oil filter. You may have to run a wire to the PCM but the capability is there.
For the trans, the biggest heat generator is the torque converter. If it's locked, it's not generating heat. Shifting is a momentary heat load, and I'm convinced that proper shifts will never overheat the clutches. I disassembled my performance rebuilt 4L60E after running 71 drag strip runs back to back one cold november day and there was no evidence of overheating on the band or clutches.
Do remember that oil temp (engine and transmission) needs to be at least 150 if not higher to get to the correct operating viscosity. And the transmission has no ability to remove internal condensation/moisture if it doesn't get close to 212F now and then. That's why it's valuable to have the transmission oil run through the radiator. Heat exchanger failures, while fatal, are also rare.
As far as porting the oil pump, I am clueless. I also don't own a Dremel. Maybe that is something I will do to the engine that I will be building on the side.
The "oil cooler" I deleted turned out to be full of trans fluid. I didn't pay attention to the lines, I just assumed it was an oil cooler. I've included a picture below. Is this cooler factory? Or is it from a 9c1/ss? It is run inline with the radiator cooler. The only oil cooler on this car is the one in the radiator.
As far as preventing fluid from getting too cold... I did spend some time thinking about that. In this part of the country, it gets brutally cold (like -30*F without the wind chill recently). I have had problems with both my trans fluid and power steering fluid freezing. It makes it very difficult to drive the car first thing in the morning after sitting. Running either of these fluids through the radiator may have some benefit in such conditions... But, my concern is I may be trading some performance on the track, when trans and power steering fluid are being pushed to the limit thermally.
The "oil cooler" I deleted turned out to be full of trans fluid. I didn't pay attention to the lines, I just assumed it was an oil cooler. I've included a picture below. Is this cooler factory? Or is it from a 9c1/ss? It is run inline with the radiator cooler. The only oil cooler on this car is the one in the radiator.
As far as preventing fluid from getting too cold... I did spend some time thinking about that. In this part of the country, it gets brutally cold (like -30*F without the wind chill recently). I have had problems with both my trans fluid and power steering fluid freezing. It makes it very difficult to drive the car first thing in the morning after sitting. Running either of these fluids through the radiator may have some benefit in such conditions... But, my concern is I may be trading some performance on the track, when trans and power steering fluid are being pushed to the limit thermally.
Attachments
Joined
·
2,065 Posts
It's the OEM factory external transmission oil cooler. RPO KD1, standard with all LT1 sedans (and non-KNP wagons).
Transmission oil is BOTH internally warmed and then regulated by the set of lines that go to the tank on the radiator's passenger side, AND THEN externally cooled by that cooler.
So far as I know, only 9C1 sedans and 1A2 wagons got external engine oil coolers.
All civilian LT1 cars got engine oil routed to the driver's side radiator tank.
You may want to consider separate winter and summer setups?
During hot summers that demand constant MAX AC, trans oil does not need to go thru the radiator sidetank, but the external trans oil cooler is absolutely necessary. It's actually a great idea to upgrade it, add a fan to it, or both.
During winters where an OEM 180°F thermostat and GM's pretty hot fan-on thresholds actually become a great idea, the OEM arrangement is ok. You may want to consider a 195°F thermostat when it approaches arctic.
Some people even block off airflow to a small portion of the radiator. Maybe you'd only need to block off airflow to the external trans oil cooler.
Transmission oil is BOTH internally warmed and then regulated by the set of lines that go to the tank on the radiator's passenger side, AND THEN externally cooled by that cooler.
So far as I know, only 9C1 sedans and 1A2 wagons got external engine oil coolers.
All civilian LT1 cars got engine oil routed to the driver's side radiator tank.
You may want to consider separate winter and summer setups?
During hot summers that demand constant MAX AC, trans oil does not need to go thru the radiator sidetank, but the external trans oil cooler is absolutely necessary. It's actually a great idea to upgrade it, add a fan to it, or both.
During winters where an OEM 180°F thermostat and GM's pretty hot fan-on thresholds actually become a great idea, the OEM arrangement is ok. You may want to consider a 195°F thermostat when it approaches arctic.
Some people even block off airflow to a small portion of the radiator. Maybe you'd only need to block off airflow to the external trans oil cooler.
Good to know.
As far as winter/summer setups, it probably would't be practical with this particular car, just due to the way it will be used. It will be mostly stored during the winter, but I will take it out sometimes when the roads are dry. I am building a twin turbo Audi for slick conditions.
As far as winter/summer setups, it probably would't be practical with this particular car, just due to the way it will be used. It will be mostly stored during the winter, but I will take it out sometimes when the roads are dry. I am building a twin turbo Audi for slick conditions.
I just chopped off the big ABS connector and removed the wires from the engine harness. I read on the forum that none of the wires go to the PCM, but I guess that was just on the Impala. I am left with two wires that are attached to PCM pins... one in the red connector, and one in the clear connector.
Could somebody send me an accurate PCM pinout for a 95 Fleetwood? All I can find is B and F literature, which says that one of these occupied slots is unused.
Could somebody send me an accurate PCM pinout for a 95 Fleetwood? All I can find is B and F literature, which says that one of these occupied slots is unused.
As it turned out, there were actually 4 wires going to the PCM. Oh well. Key word there is "were".
In addition to the ABS connector, I also removed the pigtails for the traction control, air pump, EGR, and steering line switch. I'm also going to remove the pigtail for the power steering pump, but I need to make sure I've got the right one, since there are two identical connectors in that area.
The ABS, traction, and cruise units have been removed from the engine bay for good. I've got to splice the brake lines together now, in absence of the ABS unit.
Yesterday I finished grinding the floor pan, the core support, and the frame area in the engine bay. Time to do a final cleaning and then start spraying. I did finally find a decent sized hole. It's near the front passenger's right foot, just below the body mount. It's no big deal... I will patch it. There were also a couple small holes that were not big enough to fit a finger through. Overall, I'm very happy with the condition of everything, given the circumstances.
In addition to the ABS connector, I also removed the pigtails for the traction control, air pump, EGR, and steering line switch. I'm also going to remove the pigtail for the power steering pump, but I need to make sure I've got the right one, since there are two identical connectors in that area.
The ABS, traction, and cruise units have been removed from the engine bay for good. I've got to splice the brake lines together now, in absence of the ABS unit.
Yesterday I finished grinding the floor pan, the core support, and the frame area in the engine bay. Time to do a final cleaning and then start spraying. I did finally find a decent sized hole. It's near the front passenger's right foot, just below the body mount. It's no big deal... I will patch it. There were also a couple small holes that were not big enough to fit a finger through. Overall, I'm very happy with the condition of everything, given the circumstances.
Joined
·
1,673 Posts
Caddy, you have some unique problems with your cooling requirements. Here in Oklahoma the weather is not as extreme. (Usually) You may want to consider something like this.
Dakota Digital SEN-04-10 Dakota Digital Transmission Temperature Sender Manifolds | Summit Racing
Find Dakota Digital SEN-04-10 Dakota Digital Transmission Temperature Sender Manifolds and get Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing! Available in a choice of line diameters, these Dakota Digital transmission temperature sender manifolds make plumbing your line easy. Senders must be...
www.summitracing.com
As far as the power steering cooling you could go with this. Summit Racing® Heat Sink Transmission Coolers SUM-331000
With this you have a dual pass and with both fittings on one side you will keep the plumbing to a minimum. It should fit pretty nice up underneath out of the way.
Be sure the trans cooler is placed correctly in line. If I remember correctly, hot fluid goes to the external cooler before the radiator.
Mark: Snowman-33
As of now, I plan to use the factory trans cooler for my power steering, and the external Hayden for the trans. Both will be plumbed independently. With the factory setup, the trans fluid goes through the radiator first, and then the external cooler.
I wonder if there is some kind of block/accessory heater I could use for the extreme cold days? I shall Google.
I wonder if there is some kind of block/accessory heater I could use for the extreme cold days? I shall Google.
Joined
·
1,673 Posts
Caddy, You're right on the cooler placement. I had it saved on my old computer but I had a "senior moment". I did a quick check and found this. Transmission Cooler Installation | How To Install A Transmission Cooler Just remember that the top fitting on the transmission is the return. My plan is to run -6 AN lines to the frame and then run 3/8th stainless steel lines the rest of the way. I have one of those manifolds that I referenced to control the fan.
Best of Luck my Friend,
Mark: Snowman-33
I think some sort of heating pad for the trans pan would be a good move. The engine, too, I guess.
Maybe I can find a tiny one for the power steering res.
EDIT: Amazon.com: Kat's 24025 25 Watt 1"x 5" Universal Hot Pad Heater: Automotive
Maybe I can find a tiny one for the power steering res.
EDIT: Amazon.com: Kat's 24025 25 Watt 1"x 5" Universal Hot Pad Heater: Automotive
Joined
·
1,673 Posts
Hey Caddy, How about this? It's 12 volt and you can put a controller on it. https://www.amazon.com/12V-Flexible...P2GNETX2RCF&psc=1&refRID=PZRZ2ZMEMP2GNETX2RCF
As far as the others I thought of that too but figured you knew of them. You can get the controller for those too. You could plug both into it and only have one plug to undo BEFORE you drive off.
Or you could move to Oklahoma and not have to worry about it.
Mark: Snowman-33
As far as the others I thought of that too but figured you knew of them. You can get the controller for those too. You could plug both into it and only have one plug to undo BEFORE you drive off.
Or you could move to Oklahoma and not have to worry about it. Mark: Snowman-33
I was thinking that I didn't want 12v... The whole point is to be able to plug in at night, right? If the car were running, I wouldn't need a heater. If it wasn't running, I would be draining my battery.
Anyway, here are a few new pics. I'm ready to start spraying the engine compartment. Floors are basically ready to spray as well, I just need to clean them a bit. I'm waiting on paint and such from Amazon. Oh, the cross member is also ready for paint. I grinded it and sprayed it with rust reformer.
Anyway, here are a few new pics. I'm ready to start spraying the engine compartment. Floors are basically ready to spray as well, I just need to clean them a bit. I'm waiting on paint and such from Amazon. Oh, the cross member is also ready for paint. I grinded it and sprayed it with rust reformer.
Attachments
Joined
·
1,673 Posts
I understand about the 12 volt thing but I think the controller would limit the "online" time it was operating. IDK. I was mainly looking at the small size. I look at the work you're doing and see where I began. You certainly are coming along here. Just wondering what color you intend to paint the underside. I have been considering a dark color then think that a lighter color may reduce heat reflected from the road surface. I could be reading too much into all this but I try to think out & research everything.
I have to wonder if after November we may all be driving electric cars and all our work is in vain.
Mark: Snowman-33
I have to wonder if after November we may all be driving electric cars and all our work is in vain.
Mark: Snowman-33
The "top coat" of the underside will be rubberized undercoating, like I used in the trunk area.
Overall, there are a handful of different products that I'm using. From Mastercoat, I have a quart of their rust sealer, as well as a quart of their gloss black top coat. I plan to use the rust sealer on the body mounts, and any other areas where I feel like I need extra security. Then, everything will get sprayed with a "foundation" coat of Rust Reformer. The gloss black top coat will be used on the control arms, and the top of the core support. The tops of the inner fenders will get sprayed with the fancy Rust-Oleum (the stuff for painting cars). The underside of the inner fenders will get coated in rubberized undercoating. Other stuff, like the frame in the engine bay, the lower part of the core support, and random odds and ends, will be painted with regular semi-gloss black Rust-Oleum, in addition to the "foundation" coating of Rust Reformer.
Joined
·
1,673 Posts
I had to laugh here Caddy. Your list of different paints sounds like mine. I'm leaning toward using a truck bed liner to do the underside (black) or Eastwood Platinum Encapsulator (silver). I used that on my frame and it's some awesome stuff. I may do the interior floor with POR 15.
Keep em coming.
Mark: Snowman-33
Keep em coming.
Mark: Snowman-33
81 - 100 of 135 Posts
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!