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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Originally posted by Mike454SS:
3600 stall versus my clutch, and 3.06:1 first and 4.56 rear to my 2.66:1 first and 4.10 rear...car wasn't setup to launch...
I had 3.73 gears at the time and a clutch can be dropped at any rpm. Nab is able to get decent 60' times from his T56ed Caprice.

I'm sure if you had full slicks and wasn't affaid to break the drivetrain, your car would lauch decently.
 
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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Originally posted by 96capriceMGR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dan Fahey:
THe big problem with the Hot Cam is that people started eating up their transmissions. They were shifting at 6500. Between the more power and much higher rpm 3/4 gear was getting wiped out.

My original trans was rebuilt at 130k. It looked great inside and with a ton of dragracing laps.
The mechanic said it had another easy 20k to go. Figured it was better to rebuild a healthy trans then a trashed one.

Seems they never get rebuilt right. Mine came with new 5 gear planetaries so it will take the torque better and hi-perf clutches.
Right there is a case of everyone jumping on a bandwagon without anyone really verifying wether it is a good thing. The 5 pinion thig has been proven VERY overrated, depending what one they are more failure prone than the fairly good stock piece. That is exactly the same thing as the HOT cam, people hear about it and their mind is set that is a part they have to have without any further reseaech. </font>[/QUOTE]I did WHOLE lot of research.. my tranny is rebuilt with the 5 Pinion Planetaries and all the other good pieces for $1650. GM added them into the 4L65E and all the top tranny rebuilders are adding them.

Remember; All modern day 3/4 sp transmissions, when you shift from 1st to 2nd, the Gears reverse direction (A Powerglide does not), causing a lot of impact drag.
 
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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Originally posted by Dan Fahey:
......my tranny is rebuilt with the 5 Pinion Planetaries......GM added them into the 4L65E and all the top tranny rebuilders are adding them.......
No.....not anymore.

The 5 Planetary gears haven't been the 'God-send' that they were first thought to be :( .....

KW
 
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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Originally posted by SSKIDMARKSS:
So how does this cam stack up for a smooth idle, stock heads, 1.6 rockers, 3:42 gear, and a little better breathing intake/exhaust ? Reason I ask someone posted it is on sale. I like the idea of smooth idle and more power, but how much more will it deliver ?

http://www.lingenfelter.com/store/lpe-74216.html
That cam is in the ZZ3, Comp 304, Crane 227 Range.
You can use the Stock Spring and Retainers at 1.71 install. Since it will not rev over 5700 Stock Springs are fine at 1/8 turn over lash.
What is the LSA on the 216 cam?
 
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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Originally posted by Ram Air 383:
I'm sure if you had full slicks and wasn't affaid to break the drivetrain, your car would lauch decently.
You're probably right...it did make the flattest torque curve you could ask for.
 
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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Well since we are talking street cams can I ask which one should I run.

Car- 4400 w/o driver, driven daily, snow or shine

Motor upgrades- 30 lbs svo's, cai, f-body MAF, Dans cheap headers and cats (when I get them), Dynomax cat back, PCMforless, stock upper end, tired valve springs at 180k

Suspension/Rear- 3000k Edge, Probuilt Auto, Dennys shaft, 3:73, 400lbs eaton, replaced axles, bearings, 295/50/15 Goodyear Eagles, stock suspension rebuilt with rear spring bags.

Notes- The 295's will roast with the stall, need slicks to run at track, mixed driving of 70/30 city/freeway, cruise little over 2k on freeway, 1500 around town

The car is ready now for motor upgrades. My original plan was the 227 or hot cam along with new springs, rockers, and mild port work on the heads. Perhaps a LE job, I may even spring for al heads.

Once I finish the exhaust, then its springs and rockers. Then pull motor, check lower end, swap heads, and cam.

What do you guys think of my plan. Are there better cams out there then the ones I am looking at.

Thanks
Brett
 
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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Originally posted by lawdog:
.....3000k Edge.....3:73'3......mixed driving of 70/30 city/freeway.....
Well.....if it were a daily driven, non- racer I'd be inclined to do the HOT cam or the CC 305 cam. The #305 is more of a blower grind, but should run pretty clean and yield good gas mileage.

Since (If) you're looking to race though, I would take a look at the CC 502 cam.....or even the 503 cam.

The Comp cam grinds will have a lift at about .510" with 1.5 rockers; .543" with 1.6 rockers.....in case you use the stock iron heads.

KW
 
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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
This is a great thread. Time to resurrect it from the dead.

Originally posted by Mike454SS:
I'm in complete agreement as well...on the street (especially the highway) in a stock bottom end stock heads(but with appropriate gears) car, that cam rocks. Stoplight to stoplight it's not the best, (stock cam is probably one of the better ones for that though) and yeah at the track, you are leaving some on the table...but at the same time, I used to have people at the track that I had just raced say "man, I got you out of the hole but that car came on REAL strong on the top end...must be a blast on the street"...and he was absolutely right...when running that cam, I was able to hang with most stock and mild bolt ons LS1 cars on the highway (once they do headers or anything like that they were out of my league though).
I think what Mike says make a whole lotta sence and when you are racing, street or on the track, having the guy come out of the whole and then get his ass handed to him after about 40mph, is really priceless.

I was doing a lot of thinking lately as well as some searching, searching, and some more searching on this forum.

Here's the way I see it. The stock cam is a GREAT cam for a daily driven street car. My car made 248rwhp and 282rwtq with almost the same bolt-ons as Ed had when I had her dynoed on a Mustang Dyno by The Man (Mr. Herter). Off the launch, she roasts tires all the way through second gear. Meaning, you have more than enough power on the low end than she can handle. Correct me if I'm wrong. Wouldn't it make more sence to put a cam that will get you MORE power in the higher RPM range? I mean, what sence does it make to drop in a cam that will give you even more low end kick when the stock cam is already shredding your tires?

I'm thinking of the HOT cam as a turbo set up. Car starts out "slow" and then you're off to the races once she hits 3000 rpm's. 2400 stall and some 3.73's and you're about right back where you started on the stock setup, except now you are hanging with stock LS1's and pulling away from them on the highway as Mike mentioned.

BTW, all this pondering going on in my head is on street tires.
 
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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
good thinking. When it comes to street tires low end torque is a bad thing. It's harder to NOT spin once you do converter and gears.
 
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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
I don't get the compromise lowend for the street logic. My Caprice hooks pretty well on the street at least in a straight line, all I have done to enhance that is Airlifts which I usually keep the pressure offset in. 89caprice9C1 drove it once and was suprized, it leaves tracks but not sliding strips. My opinion is work on the suspension.

As far as Lenny's comment about a car that came out of the hole getting beat later on, when I am at the track and walk all over LS1 cars and such past the 1/8th and then they run me down. My car is the one that gets the attention in the pits afterwards.
 
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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Originally posted by 96capriceMGR:
As far as Lenny's comment about a car that came out of the hole getting beat later on, when I am at the track and walk all over LS1 cars and such past the 1/8th and then they run me down. My car is the one that gets the attention in the pits afterwards.
Dwayne, I can see that happening in the pits, BUT, we're talking about a STREET car. Perfect scenerio would be lining up to a stock LS1 Z28/TA at the light and giving him a run for his money. Another scenerio would be racing something like that on the highway from a 60mph roll.

Also, I'm podering on a setup that would almost never see the track. I'm talking 3 or 4 times a year. It really wouldn't bother me if my car received no attention in the pits but would be nice to get noticed when I pull off at the exit after smoking some F-body and the guy pulling up next to me and asking "Whacha got in that thing?"

;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
I don't screw around on the street but still torque and traction are the killers stoplight to stoplight. On the highway HP can overcome a lot.
 
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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Hotcam makes a lot of torque, just higher in the powerband. As I said before, low-mid 1.7 60' was not a problem with a 3600 stall and 3.73 gears in a full weight car.

Lenny, as I said before, if you plan on running a 2600 stall and shift at 6200 or less rpms, you will leave power on the table with a hotcam.

P.S. I've beaten a couple stock-ish LS1 f-bodies at the track and on the highway with LE1.5 heads and a hotcam.
 
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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
P.S. I've beaten a couple stock-ish LS1 f-bodies at the track and on the highway with LE1.5 heads and a hotcam.
What are you putting to the wheels? and what kind of E.T.s do you run?

TAD
 
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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
I would choose the supporting mods you have money and confort level for then pick the cam around that.

Stall, CR, cubes, header and intake capability really are going to limit how well each cam is going to perform in a given car / combo.

TAD
 
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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
Originally posted by ProTools4:
What are you putting to the wheels? and what kind of E.T.s do you run?

TAD
I have a new motor now. The old one put 361 rwhp. I was running 13.0s at the track at full weight. That's with the car never wanting to shift from 1-2 at full throttle.
 
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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
Great discussion.

I have gone from a complete stock motor with all the bolt-on goodies minus rockers & springs to a 383 with the Comp 503, thank you KW.

With my new setup, I am now an advocate of the stock motor with the stock cam.

I'm grateful for the Forum and all the members who provided advice regarding my upgrade to a 383. Good thing I listened and researched because anymore of what I have now who have been overkill for the street.

My current setup is on the threshold of being too much for the street. The main problem is traction. Then there piss poor gas mileage and the temptation to get into trouble.

My buddy has a stock motor and I am really encouraging him to stick with it. I told him do the rockers, springs, headers, all the bolt on goodies and wrap it up with a good dyno tune by Herter.

My car with the stock motor was a blast to drive and performed awesome on the hwy. I even impressed a few owners of 993's on a long, fast road trip to Montreal.

Now, my 383 with LE2 heads and the 503 is a new beast that I've put a lot of $1,000's and $1,000's into, that is on the verge of being unstreetable.

I'll be very honest, I wish I had done the rockers & springs and called it a day.

My advice to everybody quick to swap cams, heads and motors be well aware and prepared for all of the extra $, and I mean extra $, you're going to need to BALANCE the setup and get it tuned right.

Now, if your goal is drag racing unlimited, than go for it.

But, for the street, keep it stock with all of the tried & true bolt-on mods and enjoy the extra $ leftover in your pocket.

BTW, just in case if it wasn't clear, I vote for the stock cam.

P.S. Does this counter-culter advice now mean I'm banned from the Forum? :confused:
 
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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Originally posted by Ram Air 383:
Lenny, as I said before, if you plan on running a 2600 stall and shift at 6200 or less rpms, you will leave power on the table with a hotcam.

P.S. I've beaten a couple stock-ish LS1 f-bodies at the track and on the highway with LE1.5 heads and a hotcam.
And in my case, with the T56 sucking up less power, and shifting around 6500 RPM and stock heads...I put only a little less power to the ground and outran my share of LS1 cars on the highway...it takes lots of careful tuning work...and lots of attention to every detail you can pay attention to when putting it together, and a GOOD drivetrain behind it...and then the car is ready to rock.
 
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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Lance I think you could have been happy with one of the MILD cams. Wife doesn't mind driving my car, hell I think she actually likes too and she has never done a burnout or anything. That said the cam I have is about as small I would consider being worth the effort. IMO something between this and the HOT is about right for most "performance" daily drivers.
 
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