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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
Originally posted by Lance:
Great discussion.

I have gone from a complete stock motor with all the bolt-on goodies minus rockers & springs to a 383 with the Comp 503, thank you KW.

With my new setup, I am now an advocate of the stock motor with the stock cam.

I'm grateful for the Forum and all the members who provided advice regarding my upgrade to a 383. Good thing I listened and researched because anymore of what I have now who have been overkill for the street.

My current setup is on the threshold of being too much for the street. The main problem is traction. Then there piss poor gas mileage and the temptation to get into trouble.

My buddy has a stock motor and I am really encouraging him to stick with it. I told him do the rockers, springs, headers, all the bolt on goodies and wrap it up with a good dyno tune by Herter.

My car with the stock motor was a blast to drive and performed awesome on the hwy. I even impressed a few owners of 993's on a long, fast road trip to Montreal.

Now, my 383 with LE2 heads and the 503 is a new beast that I've put a lot of $1,000's and $1,000's into, that is on the verge of being unstreetable.

I'll be very honest, I wish I had done the rockers & springs and called it a day.

My advice to everybody quick to swap cams, heads and motors be well aware and prepared for all of the extra $, and I mean extra $, you're going to need to BALANCE the setup and get it tuned right.

Now, if your goal is drag racing unlimited, than go for it.

But, for the street, keep it stock with all of the tried & true bolt-on mods and enjoy the extra $ leftover in your pocket.

BTW, just in case if it wasn't clear, I vote for the stock cam.

P.S. Does this counter-culter advice now mean I'm banned from the Forum? :confused:
You make several good points. I think the Hot Cam is the limit for a good streetable cam. A bit peaky for a heavy car. You can get a little bit better Torque by Advancing the Cam 2*.

I am kinda like the Silent But Deadly type car. You will get about the same performance from a ZZ3 Cam with 1.6 on the Intake as a Hot Cam. Plus you can get away using the Stock Springs as long as you do not go much over .500 lift. You also will pass Emmission, get the same Mileage, have smooth "Wife" liking performance.

If in fact you want a lot of power to the ground, TurboCharge it. Like having permanent NOS. A lot less expensive then a whole new NA engine.

As far as Cost is concerned the ZZ3 is inexpensive. Believe it or not in the 1/4 mile the ZZ3 will be within a 10th of the Hot Cam.

For now the Stock Cam is fine. With my current Tune and Cecil CO weather my car should be able to hit 13.3'. hot weather 13.90/14.0's
 
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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
CC503 is NOT a big cam for a stroker. It has about as much advertised duration (at 0.006" lift) as an lt4 hotcam, 276/281 vs 272/281.

Lance you might have tuning issues if you consider this setup undriveable. A lack of traction should be expected with a stroker. A loss of 4-5 mpg vs stock mileage should be expected as well considering the difference in power and gearing. But you shouldn't have any real driveability or emissions problems with this setup.
 
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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
The best I got with my stock motor + 3000 stall TC, 373, headers, exhuast, RAISS, OBD1 conversion and no slicks was 14.1 @ 95 - 97 mph.

I feel that with the rockers and spring upgrade, good set of drag radials, plus a good dyno tune, I would have dipped into the mid 13's.

Mid 13's with a streetable and comfortable 2 ton car is awesome!
 
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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
My current setup is streetble, but anything MORE would have been too much. I wouldn't say my current setup is radical. Just close.

I'm glad I listen to KW because he educated me about the 503 in a 383. I was actually trying to rationalize a 396 with 500+ HP before listening to reason & experience.

I've talked with Herter and he says he should be able to diagnose the part throttle misfire and fuel de-acceleration cutoff and fix them.

I just feel that after all the $ spent and time wasted getting to this point, I could've been just as happy if I had MAXIMIZED the stock motor.

People should not be quick to ditch their stock motor.
 
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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
Originally posted by Lance:
.....
I just feel that after all the $ spent and time wasted getting to this point, I could've been just as happy if I had MAXIMIZED the stock motor.

People should not be quick to ditch their stock motor.
I hear THAT, man! I had talked myself into a heads/cam setup already about 4 or 5 years ago (still have those LT1 Al cores lying in my garage!).
But then.....my stocker started talking to me and I've been listening and feeding her whatever she wants ever since ;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
Come on Pat you know you want too. Put in a little 227 cam or something and port those heads and bump King Karl's down to second for stock bottom NA before stumpy does.
 
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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
I did a Crane 227 cam with split roller rockers and CMS springs. Idle and low end were about like stock but it did pull much better from 3,000rpm on up to 5,500. I have always thought that some of the increase was due to replacing the fairly tired stock valve springs. The only down side was it spun some fairly important bearings after a week. On the current motor I am debating installing another set of CMS springs and the 1.6 Elgin rockers but I will not do another cam for a street driven car. I do think that the stock springs are weak and hope that the rockers and stiffer springs will extend the power band a bit.
 
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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
I know many disagree or feel it is a waste of time, but I would like to see what kind of #'s the stock cam could get with a set of stage 1 P&P'd aluminum heads with matching intake bored out for a 58mm TB w/ all of the matching bolt on mods.

Maybe someone has done it. Just curious. My plan of modding was always to upgrade for more performance and lose weight at the same time.
 
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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
Originally posted by Lance:
I know many disagree or feel it is a waste of time, but I would like to see what kind of #'s the stock cam could get with a set of stage 1 P&P'd aluminum heads with matching intake bored out for a 58mm TB w/ all of the matching bolt on mods.....
About as much as it would get with the iron heads and all the other mods you mentioned.

The stock iron heads are VERY good pieces considering that they're stock. Between the cam and heads, it's arguable that the cam is the weaker link between the two.

That said, those who have upgraded the cam and valve train always seemed to yield better results than the few (and only a few that I know of) who have done heads/valvetrain and stayed with a stock cam.

KW
 
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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
Link is on my old computer but I will try to find it again. Karl tried ported aluminums and a stock cam and LOST 2hp. IMO the stock cam will not support anything more than a light casting cleanup if even that. The cam is the weaker of the two.
The aluminums advantages are weight which some will disagree but on a 4200+lbs STREET car who cares and screwin studs. The pressed studs in the irons are safe to the HOT cams .525 lift with appropriate spring pressure I see no reason to go with the aluminums if staying small on the cam and not really reworking. If signifigantly reworking the heads and using a cam that requires more compression and screwin stud then the aluminums make sense, more companies have done the R&D to really wring the most out of them. That is why even though I come across as the irons strongest advocate I have a set of aluminums at the porters right now, going more strip oriented with the car.
If it were staying a daily driver lightly worked irons and a cam similar to what I have now would be all I would want.
 
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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
I think ported heads can work well with a stock cam as long as a good porter ports them. Just look at LSx engines. They have great heads with a small cam and make good hp.

Light LT4 valves, beehive springs, properly shaped ports and a good valve job will make the engine rev much easier and flow much better at high rpms. 1.7/1.8 rockers would need to be used for best results.
 
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Discussion Starter · #72 ·
Karl had a good porter believe Joe Prince Racing did them. I agree though that getting extreme with rocker ratio could make it happen effectively adding some duration and a lot of lift making it act like a much different cam.
 
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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
I think Lance makes some good points concerning the peformance vs streetability balancing act. I've got the 503 in my 383 and it runs hard, but it definitely needs an expert tune to tame some of the cam surge - especially when backed by a T56. My car was a blast to drive with some bolt-on mods and was far easier to drag race than it is now. I still drive it to work every day and enjoy shifting, until I find myself in gridlock somewhere. Then, the 503 and Mcleod Street Twin are no longer my friends! Oh well, the combination has greatly improved the strength in my left leg!
 
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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
"street cam" seams hard to difine. But a street cam to me would: Work with 3.08-3.73(up to 4.10 with T56) gears, unported heads/3 angle valve job, stock-2500 stall, full weight, replacement springs w/1.6 rockers, no machine work needed, stock manifolds-mild headers, full exuast(cut outs not needed), works with power brakes without expansion chamber, optimal shift at 5500-6000. thats what a street cam should do with. IMO
 
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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
Originally posted by MrCadillac (Magnum):
"street cam" seams hard to difine. But a street cam to me would: Work with 3.08-3.73(up to 4.10 with T56) gears, unported heads/3 angle valve job, stock-2500 stall, full weight, replacement springs w/1.6 rockers, no machine work needed, stock manifolds-mild headers, full exuast(cut outs not needed), works with power brakes without expansion chamber, optimal shift at 5500-6000. thats what a street cam should do with. IMO
You just described the stock cam ;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
Originally posted by The Bolt-On Terror:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MrCadillac (Magnum):
"street cam" seams hard to difine. But a street cam to me would:.......
You just described the stock cam ;) </font>[/QUOTE]Yep......and about a dozen other cams that I can think of off the top of my head
......many already discussed in this thread ;) .

IMO.....a stock cam with good aftermarket valve spings and 1.7 RR's would be nice with an otherwise stock set-up!

KW
 
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