[94MI9C1]

Hey all, here is the deal. I bought a set of CNC'd heads and a custom grind cam about a year and half ago and I am going to install these over the winter down time that my car is going to see. The springs that were installed on the heads were typical beehives, but the heads were used for what I was told 800 miles or so, well of course I don't trust that so I Am putting new seals and everything into these heads as good insurance.

The cam that I have is used as well and it is a custom grind unit from Lloyd, the specs are as follows and per the cam card, tried to find a grind number, but the number that is on the cam that I can find is a G2690-05, which doesn't come up on Comp's website. I took a crap shoot when I bought this cam so tell me what you think.

numbers:
Duration @ .050 224 intake and 230 exhaust
Lift .568 intake and .565 exhaust
LSA is 108.0

There are some hand written notes on the cam card that state numbers with 1.6 rockers which are
Duration @ .050 226 intake and 232 exhaust
Lift .606 intake and .603 exhaust

Just trying to figure out if one the cam would be good to use on a stock bottom end, T56 car with aluminum heads and two what springs would fit the bill for this cam. Thanks for the help.

 

[eshaw301]

Hey all, here is the deal. I bought a set of CNC'd heads and a custom grind cam about a year and half ago and I am going to install these over the winter down time that my car is going to see. The springs that were installed on the heads were typical beehives, but the heads were used for what I was told 800 miles or so, well of course I don't trust that so I Am putting new seals and everything into these heads as good insurance.

The cam that I have is used as well and it is a custom grind unit from Lloyd, the specs are as follows and per the cam card, tried to find a grind number, but the number that is on the cam that I can find is a G2690-05, which doesn't come up on Comp's website. I took a crap shoot when I bought this cam so tell me what you think.

numbers:
Duration @ .050 224 intake and 230 exhaust
Lift .568 intake and .565 exhaust
LSA is 108.0

There are some hand written notes on the cam card that state numbers with 1.6 rockers which are
Duration @ .050 226 intake and 232 exhaust
Lift .606 intake and .603 exhaust

Just trying to figure out if one the cam would be good to use on a stock bottom end, T56 car with aluminum heads and two what springs would fit the bill for this cam. Thanks for the help.

That cam looks very similar to the 503 im running now with my stock bottom end except for the 108 lea. My 503 has a 112 lsa. Don't know if it will work with the bottom end though. Also, the lift is higher @ .606 and .603.

 

[1FAST94]

eshaw, You don't have to quote a 'single post". The cam he has described has absolutely nothing in common with your 503 except it may fit in the block. You're in about a thousand posts asking questions and in another thousand answering them

 

[eshaw301]

well he said the cam had a 224/230 duration. thats similar to my 503. his lift on that cam is way higher. it looks to me that it is a modified 503 cam because of the lift, almost similar to the one LE was going to biuld for me but i decided to go against because my springs wouldnt support all the lift. thats what i was saying when i said similar. similar does not mean exact, just that they have SOMETHING in common. im in a thousand posts because im constantly trying to learn and gain more knowledge about this car.dont knock me for it, im just a little obsessed thats all and trying to offer as much as i can based on what i have done with my car.

 

[94MI9C1]

eshaw- I did notice it had similar duration as a 503, but as Mike mentioned I knew it would be totally different.

I did get an email from Lloyd this morning saying:

"it will make TONS of mid range TQ and pull to 6500 RPM with good heads.

Make SURE and use a GOOD spring with those lobes. They need 155 lbs of seat pressure and at least 370 lbs open.

The Patriot Gold Extreme springs are a GREAT choice.
DO NOT use bee hive springs with this cam.

Idle will be about 1/2 way between a CC 306 and a CC 503 cam. The tight LSA will make it a lot choppier than a CC 503 cam and these lobes are a lot more aggressive and will feed the engine about like a CC 306 up to 6500 RPM or so. It will have A LOT more low and mid range power compared to the CC 306 though."

Just for someones information. It did put a smile on my face that is for sure, I may go through the bottom end of my block though and make sure all is good, or get a replacement used short block to build everything up on and install that engine in the car instead.

Anybody else have some thoughts on the setup that I am going with, and no I don't have flow numbers on the heads, but I may depending on if I decide to build them up myself or have them sent to Lloyd and have him do the build up. I am pretty new to digging into a motor for performance upgrades, although I have done a TON of other work on every aspect of cars. And swapping heads and cam or the build up of a set of heads isn't rocket science and I am sure that I can figure it out, it is just something that I don't want to risk when installing them on the motor, if I can pay someone a couple hundred bucks to set everything up on the heads and I do the installation.

Another question that I forgot to ask Lloyd about, would you guys recommend new lifters, with the installation, I plan on a new timing chain set, for sure. Also would you guys recommend degreeing the cam in or just put it in as designed and see what happens.

 

[eshaw301]

as far as the lifters, definitely replace those. i used a set of stock factory delphi lifters for my car. as far as degreeing the cam, i dont know. i know that some have degrees built into them. mabe you could ask LE? also, this was my first cam and head build on my car and it was fairly easy. if you feel comfortable paying someone, go for it, but i just used the factory service manual and followed the directions word for word. the stuff i was unsure about, i asked you guys or went to shbox.com. hell, you recommended some stuff to me. i think you should tackle it yourself. you seem like you know a lot. just take your time. dont take two months like i did for only a weekend project, but nonethelss, take your time...you can do it.

 

[Lance]

...I may go through the bottom end of my block though and make sure all is good, or get a replacement used short block to build everything up on and install that engine in the car instead.

Mike, definitely listen to LE about the springs.

As for the SB, depending on the miles, if you have the time and funds, it would be very wise, educational and fun to pull the motor (if you have not done
this before) and redo all of the bearings, seals, gaskets, timing chain and oil pump. Plus is much easier to install a cam in a SB when it's on an engine stand

Degreeing the cam would be beneficial, but not necessary. Karl degrees all of his cams on his builds. He did mine.

Again, if the lifters have high mileage and you have the funds, get new ones. The stockers are reliable, but for less than $200 you can get new ones.

My point is, why risk having to go back into the engine because you cheaped out? Doing it right costs $. Doing it wrong costs more $.

You have about a 50/50 chance at destroying a high mileage bottom end after a cam swap.

Important, start with a very safe tune and work your way up after you have some miles on it. No more than 30 degrees max timing.

If you give Karl or Mike a call, they can probably sell or recommend you a complete rebuild kit. http://www.ellweinengines.com/

 

[Heavy_SS]

Another question that I forgot to ask Lloyd about, would you guys recommend new lifters, with the installation, I plan on a new timing chain set, for sure. Also would you guys recommend degreeing the cam in or just put it in as designed and see what happens.

On my 51,000 motor I replaced the lifters when i did my cam. I figured since I had it all apart why not. I think they were under 200 bucks for a new set.

I did not degree my cam but if you know how and have the tools do it. I wish I did just for the experience of it. If that makes any sense.

 

[KW Baraka]

Mike, definitely listen to LE about the springs......

Best advice evah.....especially if this is a LE cam!

BTW, that intake lobe looks to be the same lobe as my 'high-lift' 503 cam. That exhaust lobe is one that I'm not familiar with......it's lift is between the 503's exhaust lobe and my 'high-lift' exhaust lobe.

Still...........I'm betting that LE did the specs and Comp Cams did the grind......yes?

Also....and as mentioned, get new lifters. It's just the smart/wise thing to do.

KW

 

[94MI9C1]

Mike, definitely listen to LE about the springs.

As for the SB, depending on the miles, if you have the time and funds, it would be very wise, educational and fun to pull the motor (if you have not done
this before) and redo all of the bearings, seals, gaskets, timing chain and oil pump. Plus is much easier to install a cam in a SB when it's on an engine stand

Degreeing the cam would be beneficial, but not necessary. Karl degrees all of his cams on his builds. He did mine.

Again, if the lifters have high mileage and you have the funds, get new ones. The stockers are reliable, but for less than $200 you can get new ones.

My point is, why risk having to go back into the engine because you cheaped out? Doing it right costs $. Doing it wrong costs more $.

You have about a 50/50 chance at destroying a high mileage bottom end after a cam swap.

Important, start with a very safe tune and work your way up after you have some miles on it. No more than 30 degrees max timing.

If you give Karl or Mike a call, they can probably sell or recommend you a complete rebuild kit. http://www.ellweinengines.com/

Very sound words of advice, thanks man. This is the reason that I ask these questions the motor right now has 130K on it, well at least that is what the odometer says anyway. I have to run an oil pressure test on it as I think that there is something a miss internally, it runs strong, well strong enough anyway, but when warm the oil pressure never rises about 20 psi, which has me a bit worried, I know that the senders can be a bastard most of the time, but at cold idle it reads about 45 psi. Most likely to save me from blowing this thing up, I will probably just find a good used short block that I can work on and when it comes time just do a simple swap out. Need to put a new clutch in my car anyway. Yeah and I will never cheap out on something like this that is for sure. I will be ordering the spring kit from LE, actually really pretty cheap, you get the springs, titanium retainers, seal, seats, locks the whole shibang for 265 bucks, not bad really.

Best advice evah.....especially if this is a LE cam!

BTW, that intake lobe looks to be the same lobe as my 'high-lift' 503 cam. That exhaust lobe is one that I'm not familiar with......it's lift is between the 503's exhaust lobe and my 'high-lift' exhaust lobe.

Still...........I'm betting that LE did the specs and Comp Cams did the grind......yes?

Also....and as mentioned, get new lifters. It's just the smart/wise thing to do.

KW

Yes LE did the specs on it and Comp ground it. New lifters on the way

 

[94MI9C1]

as far as the lifters, definitely replace those. i used a set of stock factory delphi lifters for my car. as far as degreeing the cam, i dont know. i know that some have degrees built into them. mabe you could ask LE? also, this was my first cam and head build on my car and it was fairly easy. if you feel comfortable paying someone, go for it, but i just used the factory service manual and followed the directions word for word. the stuff i was unsure about, i asked you guys or went to shbox.com. hell, you recommended some stuff to me. i think you should tackle it yourself. you seem like you know a lot. just take your time. dont take two months like i did for only a weekend project, but nonethelss, take your time...you can do it.

YEah I wouldn't pay anyone to do the installation, I am just talking the head build up, never done it before, but I will probably do it myself, that is just the way that I am

 

[94MI9C1]

Thanks again all for the replies it is greatly appreciated, let's see what numbers I can get on a dyno in spring, well that is if the tax man doesn't take a testicle and half of my arm come April, f'ing bastards

 

[Lance]

...the motor right now has 130K on it, well at least that is what the odometer says anyway. I have to run an oil pressure test on it as I think that there is something a miss internally, it runs strong, well strong enough anyway, but when warm the oil pressure never rises about 20 psi, which has me a bit worried, I know that the senders can be a bastard most of the time, but at cold idle it reads about 45 psi. Most likely to save me from blowing this thing up, I will probably just find a good used short block that I can work on and when it comes time just do a simple swap out...

Install a mechanical oil pressure gauge. I put mine in the dash under the gauge cluster to the right of the steering wheel. Fits perfectly in the black plastic dash piece.

Yea, with a 130K and low oil pressure, it would be very smart to rebuild it or rebuild another SB. Minus well get a new ring set. Again, talk to Mike or Karl about a rebuild kit. Stock pistons, rods and crank are fine.

BTW, here is a decent affordable kit: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEM-CSMHP766-000/

or

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEM-205-6383-00/

Don't forget this for your oil pump pick up:

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/23621/10002/-1?parentProductId=751362

 

[Choose1]

I recently used a 120k short block for my engine build, just make sure to replace all wear items.

I replaced all bearings, piston rings, ARP bolts, oil pump, gaskets, seals, freeze plugs, lifters, had the cylinders cleaned up and re-used stock rods/pistons.

If you plan on spraying it or going Fi then you'll want to upgrade the rotating assembly.

Its not often you hear of bent rods or exploding pistons on a head/cam DD.

Just my experience.....

 

[94MI9C1]

Install a mechanical oil pressure gauge. I put mine in the dash under the gauge cluster to the right of the steering wheel. Fits perfectly in the black plastic dash piece.

Yea, with a 130K and low oil pressure, it would be very smart to rebuild it or rebuild another SB. Minus well get a new ring set. Again, talk to Mike or Karl about a rebuild kit. Stock pistons, rods and crank are fine.

BTW, here is a decent affordable kit: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEM-CSMHP766-000/

or

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEM-205-6383-00/

Don't forget this for your oil pump pick up:

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/23621/10002/-1?parentProductId=751362

Thanks for the links brother, that will help. I will probably call Karl I have chatted with him before about engine stuff. Yeah probably tonight I am going to hook up my mechanical oil pressure gauge and see what it does, hoping it is something stupid like a sender but I doubt it. As when it is really warm or been drving for a bit, idle the oil pressure almost dips to the red, and this is with 10W30 oil in it. So not sure. I will let you know what I find. I should go yank the motor out of a Shaheen rebuilt '96 9C1 that is in the boneyard up the street, wouldn't be exactly sure of the mileage on it, but I could easily tear it down and find out for sure. I would assume the motor has less than 50K on it.

I recently used a 120k short block for my engine build, just make sure to replace all wear items.

I replaced all bearings, piston rings, ARP bolts, oil pump, gaskets, seals, freeze plugs, lifters, had the cylinders cleaned up and re-used stock rods/pistons.

If you plan on spraying it or going Fi then you'll want to upgrade the rotating assembly.

Its not often you hear of bent rods or exploding pistons on a head/cam DD.

Just my experience.....

Yeah I hear you there, I am sure that when I start the rebuild that I am going to take a sh$% ton of pictures. Then I need to find a way to get one of those PCM tuner dudes out my way to dyno tune it the right way

 

[BALLSS]

Mike

sounds like a great winter project.

My $02 is go through whatever block/bottom end you wind up using. depending on how much of the short block work you want to do....but at the least have a machine shop mic all and advise on if just a hone or overbore is needed along with the crank if it just needs a polish or .010 under. All this will effect what bearing/piston & ring package you go with.

degree the cam...well most off the shelf grinds are set up for a 'straight up" install so they generally line up correctly...on custom grinds it may be better to check it with a degree wheel to confirm

 

[94MI9C1]

Just doing some searching would the LS7 lifters be a good thing to use with this cam, I am sure it probably doesn't matter much, thoughts?

 

[94MI9C1]

Mike

sounds like a great winter project.

My $02 is go through whatever block/bottom end you wind up using. depending on how much of the short block work you want to do....but at the least have a machine shop mic all and advise on if just a hone or overbore is needed along with the crank if it just needs a polish or .010 under. All this will effect what bearing/piston & ring package you go with.

degree the cam...well most off the shelf grinds are set up for a 'straight up" install so they generally line up correctly...on custom grinds it may be better to check it with a degree wheel to confirm

Yeah definitely a good call on that one, I called the boneyard where the 9C1 is at and I could get the motor out of it for 150 bucks it looks like. Plus there is an awesome machine shop here in town that would work it over right and not charge an arm and a leg. As far as my original motor I think that it is tired, I put a tune in my 2.56 geared Roady and it seems faster and that damn thing sat for about a year and half. Go figure We will see what I come up with, let alone I need to put the DF disc in the car and new pressure plate, easy enough

 

[94MI9C1]

I got an email back from Lloyd again and I may just send him the heads, he has a trick up his sleeve that would make the car FLY!!! his words I am waiting for a price from him to do what he is recommending. but it maybe a worth while thing to do, he said for 150 bucks he would clean the heads, install the new springs and set everything all up. WE will see. Out to check the actual oil pressure on my car, let's see what it does

 

[94MI9C1]

Well I just read the actual oil pressure at the oil sender with my mechanical gauge hooked up, with it cold it is 40 psi you rev it and it climbs towards 50, I will let it run later and see when the oil is warm what it does, but probably would be best as Lance suggested to go through the motor and freshen it up.