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Discussion Starter #1
Hey Car Showers
Is it just me and I'm not receiving this Forum Again or is it just That Quiet !?!? LOL-LOL
Now that the Discussions of ImpalaFest are over, did everyone go into Winter Hibernation !?!? LOL-LOL
Well...Here's a question that outta Stir Things Up !!
What Do YOU Want to see Changed in the Car Show Classes & Rules for 2003 !?!?
I Don't care How Small You might think it is, I WANT TO KNOW !! I NEED to know these things because I'm in the Process of getting New Proposals ready to summit to the BoD's in January. Speak Now or Forever Hold Your Peace !! For the 2003 year at least.
Once the Changes have been Approved by the BoD's, They Will Stand for the Whole Year !!
SSoo, I am AGAIN Asking For YOUR Input !!
Thanks !!
Have a SAFE and MERRY CHRISTMAS Holiday Season !!
SS-ya
Larry D
ISSCA Head Car Show Judge
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Does anyone know the dates of the shows in 2003. Its time to pick vacation at work so I need to put some time on the board . The show in Daytona is March 21,22,23, TIA
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Do away with the bumping rule if less than three cars are entered in a class. Hopefully at the next show people will see how few cars are in that class and enter their car in that class if it qualifies.

Tricktoo SS, the ISSCA national show is around July 16 at Tulsa.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
An "in progress" award would be cool for those cars which are noticably "under construction" and are pretty much out of the running when compared with other cars in their usual class.

There was some good discussion about this stuff in one of the post-Impalafest threads.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Larry,

Couple of suggestions.

1)Realistic mileage classification.

The NEWEST Impala ss is going on 7 years old.
With a measly 15K a year even that car has
105K on it.
The 50K break is unrealistic.
I know the "Clean is Clean" philosophy BUT there's just no way to clean normal wear and tear.

2) Do away with the minimum number / class entry requirements.

I will not show may car ever again in an ISSCA sponsored show if this isn't done.
If you have a class have at least one trophy for that class.

The 96 owners will never run into this. The 95 owners do occasionally. The 94 owners, like myself, run into it at every show


Just my 0.2
 
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Discussion Starter #7
how about having non-participants vote for who they think has the best car in each class and the winner will be awarded addition points to their total score.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
First off, I'd like to say THANKS to all the hard work that Larry has done in this often thankless role. As an ISSCA BOD member I've gotten to see a small percentage of the "crap" he has to go thru on this one, and let's just say that Larry is an enormously patient guy :D

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>1)Realistic mileage classification.
The NEWEST Impala ss is going on 7 years old.
With a measly 15K a year even that car has
105K on it.
The 50K break is unrealistic.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only thing is that a lot of SS owners drive less than 15K (and for quite a few, a LOT less than 15K) per year. Especially now, as more and more of these cars are becoming "weekend only" toys. But in parts of the country (i.e. where Winter is real, not like here in the Bay Area) cars aren't even on the road for months at a time and then get nowhere close to 15K miles in only 6 months.

Now MY car doesn't fall into this category. Ironically considering the numbers you listed, my 96 IS just over 7 years old (drove off the lot on Nov 24 95) and DOES have almost exactly 105K on it (104500 to be closer)
.

I'd suggest that looking at how many cars we ended up with in the "under 50K" vs "over 50K" classes last year (at both St Louis and Arlington) would tell us whether the mileage break needs to move up or down to even things out. However I suspect you're right (it needs to move up) and that it needs to move up to the 70K or so range.

One thing I've learned from being on the ISSCA board is that it doesn't matter WHERE you put the mileage break, someone is gonna bitch about it....usually the guys who are just under the mileage break :D

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I know the "Clean is Clean" philosophy BUT there's just no way to clean normal wear and tear.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True. I think part of this however stems from our perception that the "winning" car MUST receive an almost perfect score.

Contrast this to the Lowrider world where often a winning car (for example, Moe Reye's award winning 95 Lowrider SS) will only receive 1/3 of the POSSIBLE points in a class at a car show!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>2) Do away with the minimum number / class entry requirements.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with this 110%. No one ever bitched about receiving a trophy, even if they were the ONLY car in their class :D
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Hey Guys
I Figured that I could get a Spark going on this !! LOL-LOL
I have a few questions back to you.


Lovess...Consolation Prizes for All Participants...What do You have in mind here ?? Would you like to see Each Event give Every Car Show Participant a Trophy ?? OR maybe the 4-5th places getting a consolation Award ?? Everone that Enters an Event already gets an Event Dash Plaque showing they attended Said Event, are you suggestion an Addional Award for just showing up and Participating in the Car Show ?? This would be Nice IF IT Could be Done !! How Do YOU Propose Doing this ?? Where is this ADDED Expence gonna come from ?? Are You Suggesting to pay for these Extra Awards that the Event Incures by Jacking Up the EVENT ADMISSION Prices ??

ThreeImpalas...Underconstruction Class
Not a bad idea, what do you concider Under Construction ?? What Guidelines do You Propose ?? My 95 DGGM has 116+K miles, I'm Still adding MODS to it, I would/could concider That UnderConstruction. Give me YOUR Suggestions for Underconstruction.


Rick & Paul...Eliminate the 3 Vehicle Per Class Rule. This has already been discussed and Will be Eliminated in 2003.


Paul...Realistic Mileage Classes !?!?
This IS Probably the Biggest Bitch of All the Classes !! Ed has a Very Good Point, You Folks up in COLD COUNTRY, Don't get to drive Your Vehicles ALL Year Round like Ed or Myself. This has been gone over EVERY Year and SSoo Far, the <50K & >50K Mileage breakdowns have proven to be about the most equatiable for Everyone. I'm proposing a 100+K Mileage Class be Added for 2003, as well as a WAGON Class. I Don't have a problem in Adding ANY Class as long as I can Justify it !! Remember...All I Can Do Is Propose A New Class, and I have to Justify and Sell it to the BoD's !! They HAVE the Ultimate Decission on What Classes and Rule Changes are Excepted or Made !! IF ANYONE has a Proposal They would like to see included for Discussion, then I Highly Suggest that YOU get w/YOUR REGIONAL DIRECTOR and Have Them Propose IT !! OR get w/ME and I will propose it, IF it is JUSTIFYABLE !! Give US All the Pro's and Con's for Changes or Additions and I'll Do Everything Possible to get it Changed or Added !!
Thanks For The Suggestions and Please Keep them Coming !!

Also, I would like to Wish Everyone a SAFE and HAPPY HOLIDAY SEASON !!
 
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Discussion Starter #10
how about a ribbon, a coupon, something for driving 500+miles(showing up), washing, waxing, cleaning for hours(participating)
 
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Discussion Starter #11
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IHALLA:
ThreeImpalas...Underconstruction Class
Not a bad idea, what do you concider Under Construction ?? What Guidelines do You Propose ?? My 95 DGGM has 116+K miles, I'm Still adding MODS to it, I would/could concider That UnderConstruction. Give me YOUR Suggestions for Underconstruction.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, there are 3 examples of cars that were at Impalafest that jump to my attention as being what would fall into an "Under Construction" class. Erik's Roadmaster, Jose's Wagon, and my wagon. Ones that you could just walk within 10 feet of and tell that they were definately have a ways to go before being done.

I don't think cars that people still plan on adding mods to, but could be considered finished by others would fall under this catagory.

If you could take the car as it is at the show and sell it as a finished car, then it's not under construction. If it's covered in primer, the interior is in the process of being dyed, etc, then it would be.
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Hey Lovess
I'll make the suggestion and SSee What the BoD's think about this. Like I said before though, IF You go to an Event, You Always get a Dash Plaque showing that you were there. I'll be willing to bet that the BoD's will also agree with this and that they don't see the need for additional Ribbons, Couponds or Awards for Showing that you Participated in the Car Show. IF Anyone Questions you about wheather you Participated in the Car Show at ANY Event, you can always show them your Dash Registration Card, It will have the Event on it as well as your Car Information and Date.

What I do is, I take a piece of velcro and bond it to the back side of the Dash Plaque then I stick it on my Trunk Lid Cover.
I have Every Major Event I've attended since 1995 velcored up there and its easy to remove them IF you run outta room.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Hey ThreeImpalas
I really knew WHAT you were asking, I just wanted to hear your explanation and make sure WE were on the same track !! LOL-LOL
This IS something that could be concidered, But NOT an ISSCA Car Show Class.
There IS the OPTION of the Presiding Event Chairperson to ADD ANY ADDITIONAL Classes THEY DEEM Neccessary or Wish to Award !! IE.
Peoples Choice Award, Best ????, Under Construction or Whatever. This is left up, Totally, to the EVENT Sponsor. IF ISSCA were to add Every Class or Award We Wanted, it would take ALL DAY, Just to Judge these catagories and then comes the problem of WHO'S Gonna JUDGE THEM !?!? You know How hard it is Now to get enough Qualified Judges just for the Normal Car Show, much less trying to get Judges for Every Speciality Award. Thats why there are People's Choice Awards, You the Contestant Pick them.
Hope this Helps You Understand a little bit more about the Classes. iF you have ANY More Questions, Please feel free to ask me and I'll get you a answer!!
 
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Discussion Starter #15
I like the "Most Unique Modification" award that HOSS has at Impalafest. Chris Cangialosi won it last year with his custom headlights. They were awesome! :D We all love these cars so much and are (a lot of us, at least) looking for those special, unique touches to set our individual cars apart. I like the fact that HOSS makes this a "People's Choice" type of award. Suggestion: This should (IMHO) be a award that participants should apply for. That way people will have a short list of cars with noteworthy mods to look at instead of having to wade through 150+ cars looking at every detail on every car so that they won't miss something. I hadn't spotted Chris' headlights until someone told me about them.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IHALLA:
Consolation Prizes for All Participants...What do You have in mind here ??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How about a 40" wide screen plasma TV? (J/K
)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Eliminate the 3 Vehicle Per Class Rule. ...Will be Eliminated in 2003.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was hoping that would happen.


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>...Realistic Mileage Classes... I'm proposing a 100+K Mileage Class be Added for 2003...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree that this is someting that really needs to happen.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>...as well as a WAGON Class.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, there does need to be a Wagon Class. There are almost always (in my limited experience) enough wagons at just about any Impala show to qualify for a class - even under the old "3+, etc" rule.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SSmokybear:
GOLD CLASS!!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep. That would be a good thing to have.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by threeimpalas:
...there are 3 examples of cars that were at Impalafest that ...would fall into an "Under Construction" class. Erik's Roadmaster, Jose's Wagon, and my wagon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with Mike that those are perfect examples of a car "under construction". I would probably also include Scrapyard's Fleetwood in that list. All of those cars were just about to explode with potential and were awesome cars to anyone who can see beyond the primer (the hood ornament was cool, too, Mike
). The trick here is to figure out just what the criteria should be. Where do we draw the line between "still building" and "still modding"? I agree that the class needs to exist, but what would the rules be? Any ideas?

****EDIT****

I was typing the above while Larry was replying.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IHALLA:
This IS something that could be concidered <(under construction class)>, But NOT an ISSCA Car Show Class.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not an ISSCA class? Not arguing with you, just curious. I do understand about the "one more thing to judge" deal.

Could ISSCA possibly provide a "Suggested Additional Awards" list to the show's host club? I'd love to see classes like "Under Construction" and "Most Unique Mod" be pretty much standard, even if they aren't official ISSCA classes. I think both of those proposed classes represent important aspects of the Impala and B-Body community.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
Hey SSmokybear

Tom, I'm adding this "ClasS" especially for YOU !! LOL-LOL Seriously...I personally feel that there Should be a "GOLD CLASS" or Whatever it would be called. There ARE SEVERAL Impala's out there that Do Belong in a "GOLD CLASS" as they Are a Class by themselves. These Vehicles are the Cream of the Crop and Shouldn't be competing against Your "Daily Drivers." They need to compete against themselves in Their Own Class. I will be presenting this Additional Class to the BoD's as a Permanent Class for ISSCA Car Shows.
Ok, Tom, Since YOU have Suggested this Class, What are Your Expectations as far as "Qualifications" for this Class !?!? I already have Some Ideas for "Rules", But would Like to have YOUR OPINIONS as Well. Please Voice Your Thoughts or Opinions now !! You Know Who You Are and Whose Vehicles Qualify here. How Would You go about Qualifying a Vehicle FOR this Class ?? What Should the Minimun Standards be for this Class or Do YOU want to Have Minimum Standards ?? Since this would be a New Class, it Must have its Own "Rules" just as any Stock, Street or Modified Class. The Door is Wide Open here and YOU Guys are the Ones that Must Live By the Rules YOU Set !! No More Bitching, just Straight Up Competition !!
 
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Discussion Starter #17
Hey Jay & ThreeImpalas
Why add another Class when the Option is already There at ALL the Events. This was put in there to help eliminate SSoo many Classes and to be able to add the Speciality Classes at each Event as Additional Awards.
As long as this Option is avaible, there isn't a Need for Another Class. Judging for Every New Class has to have Guidlines or Rules for That Class just as the New proposed "Gold Class". To Truely Have a Under Construction Class, I would think that the Owned Has A Finished(Product)Vehicle in mind. They Should and Would have Detailed Drawings of What THAT Vehicle Will Look Like when Completed to Show Their Intent.
You can tell everyone What your intent is, but Each Person will have Their Own vision of the Finished Product. I would think that a Drawing or Detailed Layout of you intended work in Steps would Truely SHOW Your Intent and What Stage of Under Construction that Vehicle was already in. Pictures are worth a Thousand Words !!
Ok...Now that I have given You'll a prospective of What I would require for a "Under Construction Class", Please send me Your Other recommendations for Rules in this Class.
I Don't mean to sound like an ******* Here, but You See, Just adding a Class ISN'T as Easy as it Sounds, I have to go through a lot of time and work trying to get this New Class Put Together and I Damn Sure Can't and Won't Do it By Myself !! IF You Guys or Anyone Else feel this Strongly about Having this Class or ANY OTHER Class as an ISSCA Car Show Class, Do Your Ground Work and Present it to ME and Lets Talk about it and get All the Details Worked Out !! Then I will be More than Happy to Present it to the BoD's for Concideration as a "New ISSCA Class" !!

Also Remember...I have a Deadline for getting ALL the New Proposals Together for Presentation in January. I still have alot of work to do and am running outta time !! :(
IF you have a Proposal or want to make a Proposal, I will need it ASAP in Completed Form and Time to Discuss it w/YOU !! Again, What is Voted on in January, Stands for the entire 2003 Car Show Season and Can't be changed until 2004 !!
 
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Discussion Starter #18
Here is the info I emailed Larry back on June 25 of this year.

3 Classes
Impala
Caprice
Roadmaster, Fleetwood, and Wagon

Modification Level
Stock
Mild Street
Street
Modified

Mileage
0-50,000
50,001-100,000
100,001 and over

I figure put ALL Impalas in one category. The difference mainly is shifter, 1/4 windows, and door mirrors. Why have a year breakout?

Caprice and 9C1 could be combined to make one heck of a class

Since not many RM, FW, or wagons show up, put them in a category for themselves. Since each are unique in their own right, make them compete against one another. Clean is Clean!

Just thought I would throw in my .02 since you are the one that submits the classes to the Board of Directors.


Any thoughts on this Idea?
 
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Discussion Starter #19
When Franklin Poole and I were discussing Show Classes in preperation for Bowling Green '99 we "invited" what we considered to be the Best of the Best to participate in what we called the Pro Platinum Class (Gold Class by a different name). These people withdrew from regular judging and competed amongst themselves. Some of the participants were Thomas McElroy's "Presidential" Impala SS, Jim Downum's "Stock" Impala SS, Harvey Clark's "Purpala" (before it became a race car), John Rafteseth's "Bad Bowtie," Cheryl D'Agata's "Bowling Green Customs" Impala SS, just to name a few. These cars were put on display seperately from the rest of the vehicles at the show and were judged more stringently.

At the time, these were the best that the Impala SS ommunity had put together. Since any of these vehicles would have taken First Place in their respective categories, we thought that the winner of this category was more special and that this was a class that more people would aspire to compete in. I am glad to see that there is talk about having a seperate Gold Class . . . Now maybe I can secure that Third Place Trophy in 1996 Modified again, once the trailer queens are out of the running <hehehe>
 
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Discussion Starter #20
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IHALLA:
Hey Jay & ThreeImpalas
Why add another Class when the Option is already There at ALL the Events. This was put in there to help eliminate SSoo many Classes and to be able to add the Speciality Classes at each Event as Additional Awards.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm just wondering how much more of a hassle would it be to add 1 class that would encompass all the under construction cars, than it is to have 3-4 classes for each year, with 2-3 mileage breakdowns in each one? That's like 18-36 trophies right there, plus the ones for Caprices. One extra award (I don't see a reason for needing 1st - 3rd in the UC class) isn't adding much. I don't think judging should be too difficult seeing as how few cars would be in it. Each judge could take into account how much has been done to change it from stock, how unique or complicated what's been done is, and what potential they see in the work so far. If some sort of rendering (or a description of what the owners vision) is needed, I don't see that as too hard of a problem. I've Photoshopped what I'm planning on the car looking like and I could easily tell you what I have in mind for it pretty much down to the last detail.

If the ISSCA were to cut down on the whole year breakout things, that'd cut down on 2/3's of the trophy presentation and make it easier for each show to add in other optional classes they would like to have (such as Unique Mod, Gold Class, Project Car, People's Choice, etc). Less set classes would probably also help to promote each show to have more of the cool optional classes such as the ones listed earlier.

RE: Dash plaques.

Dash plaques are neat, but I think magnets would be soooooo much cooler. Goodguys gives out magnets to it's participants and they work out really slick. You can stick them on your refrigerator, trunk lid, where ever, and not have to worry about stick tape goo or velco.
 
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