Clear Image Automotive catback system on Fleetwood

Copy all. I certainly would not be suggesting a second crossover if there's already a balance built in there somewhere. On the built-in crossover with extensions and such it just sounds like an expensive and elaborate "solution" to a detail which has never presented a problem in the past. Maybe the pics will show the advantage of Dan's approach.

Nice to hear (for your sake) there may be no "glasspak material" in your muffs after all. lol Chambered/baffled seems to me the only way to assure the same performance and sound as the day you installed everything new. Spin Techs have been associated for so many years with kids hunting for "a big honking 3 inch with dumps before the axle" and "sounds just like open pipes" that I'd be glad to hear they also have products striving for performance but with near oem db's.

//schlicky13//
"And in any case, by not welding anything or using guillotine clamps that would have wrecked the pipes, I can easily remove them at any time and put in different mufflers of my choice if I ever do have issues with them." //schlicky13//

Interesting. Backed up with anti-seize perhaps? If there's enough room fore and aft of the muffs for those wide clamps then this sounds pretty slick for future change-outs indeed.

Finally, without going back to read, did you end up with all 2 1/2"? 2 1/2" in and 2 1/4" out?

96 Black said:

Copy all. I certainly would not be suggesting a second crossover if there's already a balance built in there somewhere. On the built-in crossover with extensions and such it just sounds like an expensive and elaborate "solution" to a detail which has never presented a problem in the past. Maybe the pics will show the advantage of Dan's approach.

Click to expand...

Yeah it wasn't something I really expected. Dan swore I wouldn't need to add length, various forum members swore I would, and in practice both sides turned out to be kind of correct. It was weird, and yeah I'll see if I can get some pics soon. I've got plans most of the weekend now and it's been rainy anyways, so perhaps next week.

96 Black said:

Nice to hear (for your sake) there may be no "glasspak material" in your muffs after all. lol Chambered/baffled seems to me the only way to assure the same performance and sound as the day you installed everything new. Spin Techs have been associated for so many years with kids hunting for "a big honking 3 inch with dumps before the axle" and "sounds just like open pipes" that I'd be glad to hear they also have products striving for performance but with near oem db's.

Click to expand...

I would have preferred an even longer muffler case, basically the same length as stock, but it simply wasn't available. At least not from that company and/or Dan. Even though, the sound is quite good and not obnoxious at all, but I may do a little dynamatting in the future to get just a hair less volume in the cabin. But it's well within acceptable parameters, and I've certainly driven worse things in my time. And I don't know if they come this way, or if Dan modifies them, but they have hangers welded right on them so they hook right into the factory rubber hangers just like OEM mufflers. One of the many things with the setup that made it mostly a breeze to install.

96 Black said:

Interesting. Backed up with anti-seize perhaps? If there's enough room fore and aft of the muffs for those wide clamps then this sounds pretty slick for future change-outs indeed.

Finally, without going back to read, did you end up with all 2 1/2"? 2 1/2" in and 2 1/4" out?

Click to expand...

I tend to put antiseize on everything, and I'm definitely one those, "if a dab will do ya, then clearly a gallon is better" kind of guys, but other than the header bolts I didn't use any. But every single thing is stainless and it will no longer be driven in winter, so I don't really anticipate corrosion problems, so we'll see what happens. But I have enough other things to do under the car in the coming months and year or so, so I'll be able to monitor it and I can always coat the bolt threads at any time if I feel it needs it. I've also noticed that on exhaust components, it tends to burn most of it off anyways, but perhaps by deleting the cats I won't be sending nearly as much heat downstream as before, because those things definitely get hot.

There was definitely plenty of room for the clamps, the only place it got a little tight was the one extension I used because of how short I had to cut it, you'll know what I'm talking about once I can take pictures.

The only thing I wish (and it may exist but I just didn't find it) would be the same clamps I used, but mirror image. They worked great on one side of the exhaust, but on the other I was occasionally running into stuff and had to rotate them into weird positions to get them to clear everything. One or two are a little tricky to tighten and loosen, but with the right wrench and a little patience, they're all accessible. I may research the clamps though and if there are mirror image versions, I might end up swapping a few of them out.

And 100% 2½", not a single thing is less than that. Except the tips, they might be 3".

I think it's about dang time I finally upload some pics. Let's start with pre-install: big box o' stuff. It's like a jigsaw puzzle for men. Also one of the headers and cat delete pipes. Everything is stainless steel, including the headers, all 2½". I also had the headers ceramic coated in black, for looks (I wanted stealthy, they aren't obvious when you pop the hood) and increased protection to the surrounding components from heat. I will say this, don't have Dan ceramic coat your headers. It isn't his fault, he uses a company near where he is, likely out of convenience, but later research on this forum revealed that they aren't any good. Which would explain why they're already starting to peel and flake after only being in there just over 3 months, with no dyno pulls, no racing, just daily driving and an occasional heavy foot.

Do your own research, but the info is elsewhere on this forum, there's a much better place to send headers to for ceramic coating. Had I known that, I would have ordered them bare, and sent them out. Again, not a criticism of Dan, his work is very high quality, the ceramic coating is done by a 3rd party and they apparently aren't very good at it. I can live with it for now, and since they're stainless I don't need to worry about them rusting, but at some point I'll have to pull them and send 'em out to be redone at my expense if I want it done correctly. Just giving anyone thinking about doing it a heads up. Anyways enough of my rambling, on to more pictures.

Laying stuff out, figuring out where it goes, and getting some stuff out. I was trying to figure out how everything went together and lay it out, didn't get it right the first time, obviously. Not sure if I took another pic after I sorted that out. The over the axle pipes are flipped around 180° as well as the short bends. Where I stuck that stuff into the inlet side of the resonators, should have been in the outlet side of the mufflers. It was obvious once I actually started mounting stuff under the car. I had the headers and cat delete pipes in first, and then started working my way back, but I think that ultimately failed, so I started at the other end and worked my way forward to the cat deletes, that worked much better, for me at least.

Fun fact, at least on the driver side you can pull the manifold and cat out as a whole assembly. You can leave the O2 sensor in, since they're a pain to remove, but it would be easier with it out. Also recommend you remove the back two spark plugs. You don't absolutely have to, but if you slip and drop this thing on one of them you'd probably snap them off. Just pull it out the top, you'll need to twist it and wiggle it and curse like a sailor, but it'll come right out. Don't know if you can also do this on the passenger side, because due to previously attempting to disassemble and breaking two of the three studs that hold the manifold to the cat, it was easier to just remove the one remaining nut and take them out separately.

Ah that gorgeous balance pipe, thing of beauty. You can see the extensions Dan added in for the Fleetwood application, still undecided how necessary they are. Ended up not using the extra piece at all, and on the other side where he separated and extended, I cut most of it off. I suspect that if you just don't seat all the pipes all the way in as you go along, you can pick up enough extra length that no added length is needed. I have pics of it under the car, they'll get added here shortly.

And a closeup of the muffler and resonator. Mufflers are from Spintech, although I thought I heard recently that he's making his own mufflers in house now. And the resonators are Magnaflows that he adds the tips and hangers onto.

Driver side header installed. Never took a pic of the passenger side. Nothing special though, but as has been previously covered elsewhere you do need to bend the oil dipstick tube slightly, and the AC lines some. Dipstick tube was no problem, AC lines were a little trickier, still not sure I like where I have them. The outer silver heat shield is very lightly touching the headers and also the upper control arm, so I don't really think it can go anywhere else. I bought some additional heat shielding on ebay to wrap around it if I think it's an issue, but other than some slight discoloration I haven't noticed any problems with it.

From underneath, nothing to really see there. I have some later pics showing where I zip-tied wires so they'd be out of harms way from the headers.

On the passenger side header, there's also the issue of the alternator brackets. Debate all you want, but I opted to retain them. The current (2nd) generation of the tri-y headers don't allow clearance for the bracket that attaches in the middle of the manifold/header so I came up with a workaround. A package of mending braces from a hardware store, 2" x ½" I believe. Clearanced the holes so the bolts would fit through, and rounded the corners off so you won't slice your hand when you're in there working on other stuff. Also needed a short piece of threaded rod, a bolt, some washers and nuts.

Got everything but the braces at menards and got all stainless. They have short pieces of stainless threaded rod, in 1" increments, I think I used 3" but it's been a few months and don't remember off the top of my head. Run the threaded rod into the head until it's all the way in, used a couple of the original cast iron spacers (although I found chrome plated spacers in all different lengths at menards also, so I can dress it up a little, just haven't swapped those on yet). I played around a lot with different combinations of spacers, braces and washers until I found the right amount to get the bracket to line up almost perfectly with its spot on the alternator. Put on two braces and secure with a nut, but leave a little loose until done. I also used lock washers behind each nut.

Rotate the braces up so you can slip the bolt in from the back of the bracket with a couple washers on either side, then the two braces and a nut. Rotate things so that the bracket lines up with the alternator correctly and tighten everything up. Ultimately it's worked well, has stayed tight and secure, but it was a royal PITA to get this together. Requires a lot of patience and dexterity. In the end, it fits perfectly, the bracket is properly lined up and secure and nothing is making any contact with any portion of the headers. Only think I might do is paint those braces so they don't rust. They are zinc plated, but after drilling and grinding on them some bare metal is exposed and will probably rust over time.

There is also some grinding to do at the other end of the bracket. Because I raised it up at the other end to avoid making contact with the primary tube it goes over, it doesn't sit flat at the alternator mount anymore. Grinding down both sides a little bit at the appropriate angle takes care of that fairly quickly if you have a good grinding tool.

For the other bracket, another threaded rod into the head, three of the original spacers, one of which has to be ground down a little on one side to clear the header flange, and I also had to remove a little bit of the gasket frame (I used the good Earls gaskets) but not enough that it'll cause any issues. And everything clears, stick the bracket on and secure it with a nut, but don't tighten. I think I also used a lock washer on there. It doesn't quite line up perfectly with the back of the alternator, but it's close, close enough that you can install that back bolt, and then tighten the nut. I have bunch of spacers to play around with now so I plan to mess with it more when it warms back up so I can get it perfect.

I think that's it for the headers, I think the only other issue I ran into was plugs on the driver side. For the life of me I couldn't get one or both of the back ones started, so I ended up unbolting the header, putting those plugs in and then reinstalling the header. You can definitely get a socket on them to remove, but for some reason I couldn't get them started, it was probably just me though. Also there's some other tight spots on the passenger side. There's a metal bracket with a bundle of wires attached to them, I bent it back some and maybe even unbolted it to slip the headers down into place, it was snug. And I retained my EGR system so that had to be hooked up. Basically the same as hooking up to the factory manifold, so if you've done it, you know just how much that sucks.

These are a cool thing I found. I used them to attach the exhaust to the original bracket after the cats and before the transmission crossmember. I don't know if it was strictly needed or not, but there's otherwise no support from the heads to the hangers on the muffler. I found them on ebay, they come in a variety of sizes. I think they're actually sold by summit, or jegs, or both. I forget who I actually got them from. One side worked well with the middle hole, and the other side used the end hole. Needed a spacer on one, and added a nut to one where it should have threaded into the bracket, but I had standard thread stuff on hand and that hole was metric. It threaded in fine because it was really close, but smaller in diameter so it wasn't very secure so that was why I added the nut behind it.

Thanks for all the pics

Wow that looks to nice to install, Dan does great work, but pricey. I bought lots of Headers from Dan, all are top notch stuff.

Here is my set up going on my Fleetwood Project, Ceramic coated Flowtech's and custom made with 2.5 inch high flow cats which will hook up to a 2.5inch Pipes X pipe, then 2.5 inch Pipes Street Pro Mufflers.
I have installed lots of Flowtechs over the years and they all leak eventually at the 3 inch/3 bolt flange connection, so I cut off the flange, got a 3 inch to 2.5 inch cone reducer and some cheap cats with O2s bungs already installed.
With the extra pipe needed for Fleetwood, it may work out somewhat close and easy to install the Pypes X pipe.

Where you at in Iowa? We have a family farm near Knoxville?

Had some free time tonight so thought I'd get some more pics up. In a couple you can see more of those adapters I found to attach to the original mounts underneath the car by the transmission cross member. Also you can see where I have the added section and it's a bit cluttered there, but I made it work. In order to fit everything I had to shorten up one end of the balance pipe a little bit, an inch or less, don't remember exactly. Also that's where I added the extra section that Dan provided for me, but I ended up cutting a lot of it off, but with how I had it put together at that point I couldn't do without it. I suspect though that if I went back and loosened up every connection I could probably come up with the needed length by pulling each pipe ½" - 1" out from the coupler (they're about 2½" deep, so there's still plenty holding it if I did that). And for whatever reason, I didn't need the extra piece on the other side. Not sure why, but that was how it worked out.

I also may make a few changes yet, contemplating whether it'd be a good idea to add a flex pipe to each side where the cats used to be. The motor torques a fair amount when revved hard and everything is bolted solid, to the motor and to the underside of the car, wondering if some flex would help prevent anything from breaking. Or perhaps it isn't enough to cause any issues. I was also hoping to use the cat delete pipes to graft in some dumps, for no reason other than to make ricers running fart cans wet themselves if they pull up next to me at a light. Or I could possibly use a real short flex pipe along with the dumps. I feel like I'll be giving Dan a call at some point down the road and asking him to make me another set of delete pipes so that I can experiment.

From here, I don't think I ran into any other real issues, so the rest of the pics should just be what it looks like installed, no more explanations should be needed.

Just muffler, ota pipe, resonator.

Resonators, tips, ota pipe. Plenty of clearance between the pipe and the frame back there once adjusted properly. I can easily fit my hand between there and it's very solid. For the resonator on one side, the clamps I used were very close to the inside of the rear fender, but rotated it up a little bit prevents it from contacting anything. This was one spot I was referring to when wondering if I can get these clamps in a mirror image version. I'll have to look that up at some point. The ota pipes were a little snug, but fit fine, just takes a lot of playing around to get everything where it should be. At first after a test drive I had one of them making contact with the rubber boot on the air shock, but a little tweaking was able to correct that. I wasn't real worried about it since they're practically shot anyways and will at some point be replaced with real shocks which won't be nearly as big in diameter.

And don't pay any attention to the fat guy in the reflection. Those chrome panels are rounded and add at least 40lbs, I swear. I mean I'm fat, but I'm not that fat. :grin2:

Mufflers, balance pipe. You can see one clamp I rotated around 180°, one more spot where a mirror image clamp would help. If I had it the other way around, the bolts would contact crossmember, or if I had it rotated 90° the clamp would hang down below the pipe more than I wanted. It probably wouldn't have hurt anything, but I prefer not to have anything on the exhaust lower than the pipes themselves. I do have the tubular cross member from Mike Harris now though, and once I install that, it may eliminate the issue altogether.

Last of the pics I think. A few shots of where I ziptied wires out of the way of the headers. Also now that I think about it, I had to rotate both the clamps under the crossmember 180° so the bolts wouldn't contact, which made one of them particularly tricky to tighten. But I was able to get them both, and I'm hoping that the tubular cross member will simply eliminate the problem. And another pic of an ota pipe and where it sits in relation to the air shock, close, but not close enough to cause any harm. Now I just need to figure out how I want to go about uploading video, since I do have a few short clips that might be of interest.