Chevy Impala SS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
With all the trouble we have with gunk in our cooling systems on these cars (especially cars we acquire with no/poor maintenance), has anybody considered or actually installed a coolant filtration system? Based on some of what we do in the HD truck industry and some things I have been learning/reading about my Duramax, I am thinking of adding a coolant filter to one of my B-bodies. It would be run in parallel, not series, so if/when the filter clogs, it won't affect the performance of the rest of the system. I searched, and found one thread here with basically no info or discussion.

I figure I would add a tee in the heater core supply line BEFORE the restrictor to supply to the filter and return from the filter back to either the heater core return line or for a cleaner install, install a 95 surge tank with two 3/8" nipples and return the filtered coolant to the unused/not needed port. This way, the heater core is no longer the "filter for the system" as Sherlock9C1 puts it.

Even after 6-1/2 hours of serious flushing of the neglected coolant system in the 96 L99 Civi I recently got with 99k miles, after a couple days, my heat declined and after a couple weeks of driving, there are specs and mini-terds in the coolant. Short of replacing every coolant touching part, I see no way to ever get 100% of that crap out of there, and the filter just seems to make sense and should be an easy install. This way, when the stuff stuck to the insides of the coolant touching parts decides to flake off/let go, there is a place for it to go. Sure this will not 100% guarantee that crap never gets to the heater core or radiator, but it has to help.

Here are a couple posts with pics of the parts needed and the install on a 2002 Duramax truck.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/1306362-post3.html

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/1325314-post14.html

Thoughts, comments? Am I just crazy? Anybody else tried this on a B-body or other vehicle you have owned?

** EDIT: Links don't work if you don't have a diesel place login so:
Debris from 26k miles service on filter, properly maintained coolant system per OEM schedule:


PART NUMBER: B5134
Report this imageDescriptions : Microlite Coolant Spin-on without Chemicals Notes : Can be used with CFB5000 base. Fits : John Deere Equipment Replaces : Caterpillar 9Y4528; Cummins 3300721; Ford E7NN-8A469-AA; GMC 25010844; Hino 16304-41015; John Deere RE11992 Thread : 11/16-16O.D. : 3 11/16 (93.7) Length : 5 13/32 (137.3) I.Gskt : G381-A Related to : B5089 (Short Version)


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,845 Posts
Yes, I have. the thing to realize is that's it's a constant battle and nothing you can merely fill w/ a product or install a mechanism...and walk away from satisfied the issue is resolved. The removal of residue is PART of the flushing procedure because there WILL be residue. Everytime.

http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?p=3321370#post3321370

The eddy effect suspends fine, solid particulates and then gravity allows them to settle at the bottom of the collection tube. No impediments to flow and that's the biggest concern I've w/ a filter. If left unattended too long, it could decrease flow, increase pressure, etc...

This is what you get every 12-18 months if you've an iron block. Everyone. No exceptions. The heater core is the smallest diameter conduit w/ the least flow. So that's where the sediment most readily collects. Eventually though, it collects at the bottom of the water jackets, pump and radiator as well:



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,896 Posts
I have toyed with the idea. It would be best (obviously) on the heater core's inlet side. Which is nothing more than a long bypass loop to the rest of the cooling system anyway. I have a ball valve on mine,and can completely cut the flow. There is no increased pressure when flow is reduced,or stopped. The pressure on both hoses is the same,and the coolant circulates through the engine/radiator regardless what is happening with the heater hose circuit.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I had no intentions of the "set it and forget it" approach as a lot of people do. Having been in the HD industry a long time as well as racing for years, you learn a lot. The HD, and even the MD and LD guys, that use trucks to make a living or put several hundred thousand miles on their vehicles, can offer great insight. From reading up on the Duramax, guys with well used, and properly maintained vehicles, are still seeing significant improvements in the quality of their coolant with the addition of these filters. Guys who have changed/flushed the coolant at OEM intervals, would still see darkening of the coolant and some haziness inside the surge tank. When they added the coolant filters, it started to clean up both, and even get the surge tanks back to "as clean as new."

My thought is on a car that has been properly maintained, this has to help as good prevention for some of the exact reasons you state - there will always be some level of corrosion, sediment, coolant breakdown even during the proper change intervals. For neglected systems, this seems to be a really good additional tool to help clean it up. I don't want to replace the heater core and radiator (because I can't get them completely clean) just to have the remaining goo clog new parts. So using a filter along with some elbow grease of complete flushes has to help a lot. The stuff these guys are seeing in "clean and maintained" systems is amazing to me.

If you put the filter in parallel (as a bypass setup), even if it clogs 100% with zero flow, it will not change the performance, pressures, or flows of the rest of the system. If it is clogged, then the system will be exactly the same as if the bypass filter isn't even there. The key is to make it a parallel installation. If one does it on series, performance/flow could be affected, but that is a different discussion.

For less than $75 and $6-9 filter, it seems to be worth a shot. Even if I can get this new-to-me Caprice clean and good, I don't want to have to clean and flush every 12-18 months. Seems ridiculous. Yes this adds another filter that needs to be maintained, but changing a spin on filter and adding a quart of coolant is a lot easier than 3 hours of full on flushing.

The other thought is that sediments and suspended crap will flow and move through the system as it runs. As soon as you shut the engine down, the moving around stuff - especially sand, dirt, rust flakes, will start to settle immediately, and flushing is less likely to get it out than a system filter.

Of course, all of this at this point is opinion and conjecture on my part based on success from others in different vehicles than the b-body. I have a good B-body (possibly 2) to try this out on and see what happens. I just wanted to open the discussion and see if anybody else here has tried this on these cars or other experience with coolant filters. I know some of the other members here in the HD industry have, but really curious as to results on LD and passenger vehicle applications.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Of course I joined just before the great crash and never saw this one. Does anybody have it archived or saved someplace that it could be shared? Jay, do you recall if there was a consensus "good or bad or neither" conclusion that was derived and/or proven?

Maybe I need to reach out to Pogo or Area 51 since they are both "old timer's" on this forum and both in the HD industry, so I assume they were involved in this type of discussion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,896 Posts
A couple of things that stopped me was the size of the unit,semi-awkward plumbing needed to make it happen,and the need to flush/replace the coolant every several years anyway. It was kinda diminished returns for me once the cost is added in. One thing I always do anytime the coolant is drained (for any reason) is to use a paint-strainer when refilling the reservoir. Costs practically nothing.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Sherlock9C1 pointed out my links don't work if you are not logged on to diesel place. I checked, and the section I referenced is a private section if you don't have a login there. I will find some new links and/or pics and descriptions and edit the first post. Sorry about that guys.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I couldn't find a good link that was viewable without a diesel place login, so I updated the original post with pics. I will keep looking, but this gets the point across.

I think mounting the filter on the RF under the hood near the batter tray or general area will work well.

Thoughts guys?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,358 Posts
I
Of course, all of this at this point is opinion and conjecture on my part based on success from others in different vehicles than the b-body. I have a good B-body (possibly 2) to try this out on and see what happens. I just wanted to open the discussion and see if anybody else here has tried this on these cars or other experience with coolant filters. I know some of the other members here in the HD industry have, but really curious as to results on LD and passenger vehicle applications.
ok, since you asked I'll give my 3 cents worth :D

coolant tech has improved alot to the point that coolant filters are not even being used anymore on the newer diesel engine designs.
used to be the big diesel engine companies had coolant filters designed into the engines but thats a rarity now.

that being said, on a b-body a coolant filter may well help due to the crap built up from the bars leak fiasco or poor maintenance on these almost 2 decades old cars.
its not a proper cooling system flush unless the knock sensors are removed, putting a coolant filter can help clean the system more thoroughly.

the other important variable is checking coolant ph level and changing it out when it is out of spec.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
ok, since you asked I'll give my 3 cents worth :D

coolant tech has improved alot to the point that coolant filters are not even being used anymore on the newer diesel engine designs.
used to be the big diesel engine companies had coolant filters designed into the engines but thats a rarity now.

that being said, on a b-body a coolant filter may well help due to the crap built up from the bars leak fiasco or poor maintenance on these almost 2 decades old cars.
its not a proper cooling system flush unless the knock sensors are removed, putting a coolant filter can help clean the system more thoroughly.

the other important variable is checking coolant ph level and changing it out when it is out of spec.
Thanks pogo. Do you recall any specifics of the previous threads here on this subject? At the HD OEM I work for, when we launched the EPA2010 engines/trucks, we had a coolant filter installed to the truck and attached to the engine on 100% of the 11 and 13L engines. We have since backed off on that, but it is still an option that the truck owner can get and we still sell a LOT of them. As you know, there is a next level of coolant used on HD now called Ultra ELC (ELC is red, like Dexcool) and the new UELC is bright yellow. Even with the much higher quality coolants, we still sell quite a few coolant filter optioned engines/trucks. I can't speak to what the other OEM truck/engine folks do.

So even though coolant tech has come a long way in the near 20 years since these cars were built, on the majority that are still running, just dropping better coolant in won't get the junk out from the Bar's fiasco and poor maintenance.

Thanks for the reminder on the PH. Maybe that is a good way to determine when to change coolant - add the filter and make sure the coolant and system is really clean, and when the PH gets out of whack, change it. Interesting food for more thought.

Two sources for Frantz bypass-type filtration systems:

http://www.wefilterit.com

http://www.frantzoil.com/home.html

Info on converting a compressed air filter, into a bypass-type filtration system:
http://www.garynorth.com/public/9347.cfm

There WERE at least 4 pre-crash threads about using bypass-type filtration systems for motor oil, coolant, and transmission fluids - and yes, TP [for your bunghole] IS the filtration media!
Thanks for the links there Cornholio. :) Do you by any chance have the previous threads archived or somehow available that I could read them?


I am pretty sure I am going to install one of these on m 06 Duramax. Maybe it will help, maybe it will just be extra peace-of-mind for me, or maybe just because it is a stock truck and I have this overwhelming urge to do some kind of mod to it. And while I am at it, just to see what it does, put one on my 96 Civi L99, and possibly two other B-bodies that are local to me. maybe even look at using the "larger base and filter" as clean up tools and try to find a much smaller setup that could be used as a keep it clean setup. We'll see. If I do install to a b-body, I'll post pics here. And if I do, any input on testing or other data points that might make sense?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,551 Posts
[SNIP]

the other important variable is checking coolant ph level and changing it out when it is out of spec.
Good point. In the past I have just blindly changed mine every 2-3 years.

What do you use to test the PH level? I just did a quick search on Amazon, and they only have test strips that are similar to what you use to test the water in a pool.

Thx.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,896 Posts
Test strips are what I use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,822 Posts
Thanks for the links there, Cornholio.
:)
Do you by any chance have the previous threads archived or somehow available that I could read them?
Are you threatening me?
;)
Afraid I don't have them archived in any fashion.
Supposedly, access to the archives is still a work in progress, so if you have subscriptions to threads prior to Aug '09, don't cancel them like I did.

From memory, though, some were changing tp rolls as often as every oil change, probably because the previous bunghole had not properly maintained the cooling system.
My wagon's previous owner was also a bunghole, but instead of adding a filtration system, I just use new antifreeze & add RMI-25 twice a year (only had to change the heatercore I bought the wagon with 11 years ago).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,358 Posts
Thanks pogo. Do you recall any specifics of the previous threads here on this subject? At the HD OEM I work for, when we launched the EPA2010 engines/trucks, we had a coolant filter installed to the truck and attached to the engine on 100% of the 11 and 13L engines. We have since backed off on that, but it is still an option that the truck owner can get and we still sell a LOT of them. As you know, there is a next level of coolant used on HD now called Ultra ELC (ELC is red, like Dexcool) and the new UELC is bright yellow. Even with the much higher quality coolants, we still sell quite a few coolant filter optioned engines/trucks. I can't speak to what the other OEM truck/engine folks do.

So even though coolant tech has come a long way in the near 20 years since these cars were built, on the majority that are still running, just dropping better coolant in won't get the junk out from the Bar's fiasco and poor maintenance.

Thanks for the reminder on the PH. Maybe that is a good way to determine when to change coolant - add the filter and make sure the coolant and system is really clean, and when the PH gets out of whack, change it. Interesting food for more thought.

yes the big R buys alot of your products and I havent seen a coolant filter on one of our cornbinders in years.
I also remember about 10 yrs ago we tossed all the coolant filters with SCA built in and only use plain filters now, everything uses ELC (truck dex) except certain models like powerstrokes.

I would recommend dropping the knock sensors and flushing as a prep.

we also use test strips for ph, I'll try and snap a pic of the bottle tonite at work.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
yes the big R buys alot of your products and I havent seen a coolant filter on one of our cornbinders in years.
I also remember about 10 yrs ago we tossed all the coolant filters with SCA built in and only use plain filters now, everything uses ELC (truck dex) except certain models like powerstrokes.

I would recommend dropping the knock sensors and flushing as a prep.

we also use test strips for ph, I'll try and snap a pic of the bottle tonite at work.
If I do a filter, it will certainly NOT contain the SCA, but a plain, pure filter.

If you get a chance, look at our 13L (2011 or higher). The coolant (on most) is the new UELC, which is the next gen of coolants beyond the ELC (red truck Dex). We still have some customers (I think big R is one of them) that require the red, but we recommend the UELC yellow.

The car I recently acquired (96 L99 Civi), had non-maintained coolant. It was brown and murky/cloudy. I spent over 6 hours flushing the heck out of it including the block drains, t'stat, radiator hoses all removed. Spent an hour just on the surge tank and got maybe 1/3 out of it. I even ran water INTO the block drains and flushed up trying to break stuff loose, then back down through the t'stat port. Alternated plugging one side drain then the other to make certain I had flow through both sides' jackets. I feel pretty good with the amount of flushing I did. However, just a few days later, heater performance dropped. So flushed the core again and sure enough, a huge slug or brown goop. And on the brand new 50/50, specs and floaters. Based on everything I read here and my years of experience on cars, I feel I had it flushed pretty well. Still have some more work to do on the radiator as I NEVER got it to be able to drain out the drain port. When I came across the filter discussions on the Duramax forums, a light bulb went off in my head. We'll see. Worst case is, I waste $60 and a few hours of work, best case a better tool than flushing to get the junk out of there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,845 Posts
You did get the block very good. Problem I can see is you loosened up years of neglect and they tend to migrate to the HC and radiator. That's why you initially lost heat. HC is the first conduit to get blocked. If you resolved the HC, the radiator would be your next thorough project.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
You did get the block very good. Problem I can see is you loosened up years of neglect and they tend to migrate to the HC and radiator. That's why you initially lost heat. HC is the first conduit to get blocked. If you resolved the HC, the radiator would be your next thorough project.
Yep, I agree. My theory now with this car is that there is still caked up stuff in the radiator I didn't get out during the flush that is breaking loose and finding its way to the HC. I need to make time to pull the radiator get it cleaner. I am just thinking that a "smaller conduit" in the system (a dedicated filter), might/should help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
527 Posts
I have used Prestone radiator cleaner
http://www.prestone.com/enca/products/car_care/cooling_system_treatments
in a couple of B-bodies with good result. The kicker with this product is that you have to run it for 3-6 hours with water only, so in Michigan it is a warm weather procedure. Got a lot of junk out and did not have heat problems afterwards. I did remove the knock sensors to make sure the block was properly drained.

Ken
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top