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Discussion Starter #1
After reading in here about how much better 6.5's would sound in the doors (and how they were even better than 6x9's because they were round) I finally built the template, ordered some speakers and installed the first one today.

Wow... am I diappointed. The new speaker doesn't sound any better than the Pioneer (in the stock door size) I am replacing.

I had put the Pioneers in a few years ago, and was disppointed with them, because with the small size you can only improve to certain point. But since they were the stock size and I wouldnt have cut, or build anything I thought Id give them a try. Yes, they were better, but not what I had hoped.

Fast forward to today... I expected a big improvement but saw None. In a blind taste (sound) test, switching balance control between left and right, there was no diff between new speaker on drivers side and old speaker on passengers side.

What gives? Shouldn't I at least had some more bass from the larger speaker, if nothing else??

The new speaker doesn't sound bad, its just not any better. The rear speakers still over power the front, and you must compensate with the faders.
Thanks
 
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Discussion Starter #2
What kind of speakers did you buy, just whatever was on sale or something that is supposed to be decent? I always heard that the 6.5" are better for mids and highs, so maybe you are just not sending the right signals? I still plan on doing 6.5", but I'm going from the stock speakers, so I better hear an improvement.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
2 suggestions...

- Make sure the polarities on the speaker are the same and not reversed. (If you are not sure, switch the leads on one of the speakers and see if the bass improves.)

- Add some type of sound deadener (Dynamat, Grace Ice-Water Shield, etc.) to the door to help "seal" it up.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Did you buy 6.5 speakers or a set of 6.5 components.... If you purchased a decent set of 6.5 components you should notice a decent difference
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Originally posted by Raxstone:
What kind of speakers did you buy, just whatever was on sale or something that is supposed to be decent? I always heard that the 6.5" are better for mids and highs, so maybe you are just not sending the right signals?
Here is the link to what I got.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fUGEoBPpFHk/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=52000&I=113KFC1680

They seem to have good Freq Response, and other people gave them OK/GOOD reviews.

I did try switching the polarity of the wires. I DID notice a difference by doing that, but they way I had them the first time, was the better option.

I'm not getting any bad virbration from the door. Does the sound deadner really help it sound better, or is that just to quiet things down from road noise, and vibrations?
 
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Discussion Starter #6
ehhhh dont know if kenwood was the best choice for your speakers. plus there not componets so the frequencies wont be as good. with components you have the choice of what frequency you want your mids highs and lows to be. they are a little more costly but u will prob notice the difference. i had stock speakers but my friend threw in stock caddy speakers when he sold his sub to me. i replaced my stocks with the caddy stock speakers and they are amazing! very clear sound and no distortion like the caprice stocks.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
I recently changed the stock speakers to alpine components. Just before I did the swap I had the stock speakers running off a 80 per channel (RMS) amp and they sounded good.

When I did the swap to the alpines I was a little dissapointed, they sounded the same if not worse than the stock speaker at first. I noticed they were not as efficient as the stockers. But then I got to playing with the cross over points and gains and go them dialed in. The way I have it setup now sounds incredible for the music I listen to at almost any volume.

But getting back to the OP's problem, I also thought that the new 6.5 had no bass when I first put them in. I think it was just that they were less efficient than the stock speakers so you need more power. Does any know the impedance of the stock speakers?
 
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Discussion Starter #8
"I did the swap I had the stock speakers running off a 80 per channel (RMS) amp and they sounded good."

There is no way that you had over 80 rms running to each stock speaker, that is absurd. Also, what kind of alpine components did you buy? Type E? The type e and s only handle 50rms and the Type R handles 70 watts rms...... Your amp depending on the quality(a real 80rms x4 channel amp is pretty expensive) is overpowering the speakers by a lot. Anyways, all i wanted to say is that i cannot believe you had 80watts rms running to each stock speaker. Impossible.

Back to the original post. I am not sure if this is an option but i would return those speakers if possible and buy a halfway decent set of components for the same price
http://cgi.ebay.com/ALPINE-SPS-171A-6-5-COMPLETE-COMPONENT-SET-TYPE-S-NEW_W0QQitemZ250073091728QQcmdZViewItem

Not the best set of components, but not too bad either you will definately hear a difference. If you are really looking for good clear loud sound you should definately look into getting a nice 4 channel amp and upgrading your front speakers to some nice components, forget about the rears throw a pair of 6x9s in and be done. JUst a thought.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
i installed a set of 6.5 inch cadence components ($79.99 and 5.00 to ship, check ebay) and i have to say that i am truly glad i made the switch. they are being powered by a hifonics zeus zx6400 that is rated at 85 watts/channel at 4 ohms. i used the template that was posted in this forum a while back. the only thing i did not do was drill the hole for the tweeters. i chose to mount the tweeters in the a/c vent. sounds good to me if i must say so. if you dont have an amplifier connected to your 6.5's, then that may be the cause of your dissapointment jmho.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Deadening the door panels will help greatly, as will an external amp, and better speakers...

Usually if you can't get enough lowend out of your door speakers you need to look into proper deadening and sealing of the panels, a la the sticky at the top of this section, or you could have phase issues.

[ 01-20-2007, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: UndercoverPunk ]
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Spellman, I worked in car audio for 4 years in the 90's and one of the biggest myths started by companies like pioneer is that a certain number of watts will blow a speaker. The truth is that clipping is more likely the cause. That being said I've seen many "100w rated speakers" blown by just the power in a head unit (16 watts rms) if you crank it all the way and let it clip for a few minutes.

By the same token you could connect a 200w RMS amp to factory speakers and they will sound pretty good and last unless you drive them really hard for a long time or clip the amp.

I had my stock speakers connected to the amp (High pass)for about 3 weeks with the rest of the system connected (back 6x9s and sub)while I waited for the Alpines to arrive, they sounded descent and didn't blow, they just didn't image very well.
 
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Discussion Starter #12
What pioneer speakers did you have in your doors before you put in those Kenwood speakers?

I've useing pioneer speakers for years. When I first got my SS I changed out the stock speakers with someof these http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=14531 Got'em at walmart for the same price
talk about deference. I was surprised with the sound but almost a year later I scored a set of these http://cgi.ebay.com/PIONEER-TS-C1653-6-5-150-WATT-COMPONENTS-NEW_W0QQitemZ290071682782QQihZ019QQcategoryZ32819QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Hooked up to this amp http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069933_77659852,00.html and it sounds great to me :D


Oh yeah, look into some sound deadening
 
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Discussion Starter #13
I have to agree with Sleestack 71. Clipped power damages speakers not clean power. The problem you may be having is that the woofer is playing the bass that your stock speakers lacked but now there is no midrange to make it loud. If you are using the factory head unit you need to upgrade and use an amp not just power from the head unit. I just installed FOCAL Utopias in the door with tweeters in the A-Pillar I'm going to install 4" speakers in the kick panel. My car is in CAR DOMAIN and I will print pictures when I have kicks finished. I have it playing and it is alot better than before.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
I understand that driving speakers to the point where they clip causes them to blow i just stated that you were overpowering them. Which you would definately agree. Now that you explained you were waiitng for your alpines to come and temporarily had the stock's amp'd i am not as flabberghasted. I was just shocked and thought you had went through the work of installing an amplifier and used stock speakers. Misunderstanding.

Anyways, the consensus for the original post is indefinately to properly deaden the doors, and look into purchasing an amplifier.

SS2HEAr--> Which model utopia's did you get, and how do you like them. Been looking into getting a pair.... Just looked at your cardomain...wondeirng what you used to cut the inset for the speaker in the baffleboard at an angle..looks good.

[ 01-21-2007, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: spellman ]
 
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Discussion Starter #15
I think most people are expecting to much from cheap speakers. If you are buying $69 speakers you are going to get $69 worth of performance.

Deadening the doors will improve anything that is in there. Getting greatly improved sound is going to cost some cash.

Probably not what you wanted to hear though.

Later,
Brad
 
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Discussion Starter #16
Originally posted by PistonHead:
If you are buying $69 speakers you are going to get $69 worth of performance.
There are always exceptions to that rule. But for many people that is accurate.


As for the Clipped power vs clean power statement.... that is not entirely accurate.

Clipping does not, and has not killed a speaker, ever, in life, no matter what.
Overpowering a speaker past it's thermal limits does. When an amplifier is driven past it's ability into clipping it will usually put out much more power, which, if greater than the amount the coil can handle, will kill the speaker. But if you take a speaker that can hadle the power, you can drive it clipped as long as you want to, and while it will sound like ****, as long as thermal limits aren't exceeded, that speaker will not blow.
 
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Discussion Starter #17
tough call, there are exceptions to everything but.....
 
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Discussion Starter #18
More details on what you're thinking? Let's keep the conversation rolling. :D
 
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Discussion Starter #19
Im running 6.5 comp. from rockford fosgate "power series", of course im using a amp and will not go back to stock. you will want to use an amp, just my 2 cents
 
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Discussion Starter #20
Well I don't think you can compare Focal with Kenwood, I would have gone with a better speaker than Kenwood. There are plenty of high end speaker manufactures that make entire level speakers, MBQuart, Focal, Boston Acoustics, Polk Audio, etc. I recently added the Momo Polk Audio 6-1/2" in front and 6x9 in back and they sound really good, they need more power. My personal opinion on Pioneer and that's from owning a pair is they suck!
 
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