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Discussion Starter #1
Hey folks...

As I prepare to make my Fleetwood faster, I am faced with the reality that my brake lines are old and rusty. I figure I should probably replace them. I also want to get rid of the entire ABS/traction/cruise monster that lives under the hood. Here are a couple of questions:

1) Would it be easier to use a pre-formed kit, or buy a roll of tubing and make my own lines?

2) If I make my own lines, can I put them on the inside of the car? Seems logical to me to avoid rust entirely.

Thanks,

Matt
 

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Hey folks...

As I prepare to make my Fleetwood faster, I am faced with the reality that my brake lines are old and rusty. I figure I should probably replace them. I also want to get rid of the entire ABS/traction/cruise monster that lives under the hood. Here are a couple of questions:

1) Would it be easier to use a pre-formed kit, or buy a roll of tubing and make my own lines?

2) If I make my own lines, can I put them on the inside of the car? Seems logical to me to avoid rust entirely.

Thanks,

Matt

Matt. Why would you want to open up your cabin to possible problems? A kit would include all the lines for the ABS, traction & cruise. Eliminating those will cause you to Roll Your Own. Now you have the chance to put stainless steel in. A roll of 3/16th inch SS https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-Steel-Brake-Line-Tubing-Kit-3-16-OD-20-Foot-Coil-Roll-AN-45-Flare-USA/191718062098?hash=item2ca3497812:g:SagAAOSw-vda1Kss:rk:1:pf:0
I got a line straightener for about $100. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Metal-Coiled-Brake-Fuel-Line-Tubing-Tube-Straight-Straightener-Aluminum-Blue-US/292103459690?hash=item4402b9136a:g:S78AAOSwi0RXw5h9:rk:3:pf:0 It will do up to 1/2 inch. I did have to touch up the spot welds in it though. There are some others on Ebay. Eastwood has one for around $80. Single size only. And too you will need a good flair tool.
Now is a good time for all men to come to the aid of their Caddy.

Mark: Snowman-33
 

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Two things:
1. Look up Nickel Copper (also known is cunifer) brake line. If I was in the rust belt again I'd use that, or buy pre-bent stainless.
2. ABS allows you to continue steering while still full braking. I would keep the system if it's still working. I know many disagree on that, and that's ok, just something to consider.
 

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I think it was my Subaru that had brake lines run inside. I thought it was a pretty interesting idea. The lines inside were in terrific shape compared to everything else.
I've bent up my own lines out of rolls of stainless for other projects. It is kind of tough to work with. Hard to bend. Hard to flare. You need very high quality flaring tools. I was happy with the results, but to do it over again, I'd probably try the nickel copper / nicopp as mentioned by sherlock9C1.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
In all likelihood, even prebent set of new steel lines will out live the car.
That may be true. I'm just paranoid because the power steering lines I bought 2 years ago are already rusted.


And, the ABS provides the function for the unique D body four channel traction control. Just replace the bad lines.
The traction control on the Fleetwood is stupid and dangerous. All it does is kill the throttle when the tires start to slip, which effectively leaves you stranded in the middle of the road all the time like a dumbass. It makes driving in wet conditions nearly impossible.


Just to be clear, even aside from the brake line issue, I absolutely want the ABS and traction control gone from my life.
 

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The traction control on the Fleetwood is stupid and dangerous.
All it does is kill the throttle when the tires start to slip, which effectively leaves you stranded in the middle of the road all the time like a dumbass.
It makes driving in wet conditions nearly impossible.
The Caddy Fleetwood 'foot fighter' traction control system is a pain in the @$$. A good limited slip diff is SO much better than the footfighter.
Just to be clear, even aside from the brake line issue, I absolutely want the ABS and traction control gone from my life.
Nobody needs the footfighter; so stipulated.
The 3channel ABS on the rest of the B-bodies is hot garbage, even with the improvements made in 95, but is the Fleetwood's 4Channel ABS really THAT bad?
(It's been over 10yr since I owned a 94 Fleetwood, from which I deleted the footfighter, but left the 4Channel ABS alone.)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The Caddy Fleetwood 'foot fighter' traction control system is a pain in the @$$. A good limited slip diff is SO much better than the footfighter.Nobody needs the footfighter; so stipulated.
The 3channel ABS on the rest of the B-bodies is hot garbage, even with the improvements made in 95, but is the Fleetwood's 4Channel ABS really THAT bad?
(It's been over 10yr since I owned a 94 Fleetwood, from which I deleted the footfighter, but left the 4Channel ABS alone.)
From memory, I was thinking the ABS and TC systems were tied together, but maybe I am getting them mixed up. Is it the TC and cruise that are tied together?

Anyway, I just hate ABS in general. I don't care if the Fleetwood has the greatest ABS system ever designed.
 

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I sprang for the $200 Eastwood flaring tool and haven't regretted it. If there is any chance you'll need to repair brake lines on another vehicle, I think it's worth having the tool - especially if it's comparable to the price of a set of pre-bent lines.



Also went for the bender/forming units for $35 together.



The NiCopp stuff is easier to work with than steel, but it's also doing that green copper rusting thing, and I'm in the mid-atlantic. Not sure how well it'd last in the rust belt, even though they claim it's better.
 

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If you're going to make your own (and from the discussion, I'm guessing you will). Get a roll of this from your local home improvement store in the concrete materials area



Then you can mock up your lines with something inexpensive to make sure you get it the way you want before cutting/bending the nickel/copper tubing.

I use a Rigid model 345 flaring tool - works well and relatively inexpensive for a quality tool. Any of the benders shown above will be fine for nickel/copper tubing - it bends like a coat hanger.

Bend the wire around the same radius as the edge of the tube so it gets the lengths correct - once you have the wire like you want, just "unroll" the wire on a straight piece of tubing (and add a couple inches :)) to get the length right. Then make your bends to match the wire.







Don't forget to put the nuts on before flaring :)
 

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From memory, I was thinking the ABS and TC systems were tied together, but maybe I am getting them mixed up. Is it the TC and cruise that are tied together?

Anyway, I just hate ABS in general. I don't care if the Fleetwood has the greatest ABS system ever designed.

They are, at least somewhat. The TC system is tied into the ABS, it needs to see wheel sensor info to know that a wheel is slipping, but the ABS is independent from the TC. You can get rid of TC fairly easily a number of ways, but if you don't want to get too complicated I'd check to see if the throttle cable to the ASR is long enough to just attach directly to the throttle body like regular b-bodies and then just leave the rest alone. If you unplug that stuff you'll probably set codes unless you program it out when you do a tune. Pulling a fuse or unplugging the module would probably also set codes. The ABS is I believe a wholly independent system and will work fine regardless of whether the TC system is functioning. At the very least when I've turned off traction using the switch in the glove box, the ABS still works fine. You could possibly remove ABS but keep TC if you wanted, just bypass the hydraulics but keep the electronics in place.
 

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Regarding rolling your own, not sure about caddys, but the b-bodies, 91's for sure, have a mix of sae flares and ISO bubble flares. You'd want to make sure you have both flaring tools.


And technically, the line sizes are both sae and metric. But when I did mine, the sae line worked fine. It's a very slight difference in diameter between the two. Depending on the nut and which way you're going (sae for metric or vice versa) a quick pass of the right size drill bit through the nut may be needed.
 

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If you're going to make your own (and from the discussion, I'm guessing you will). Get a roll of this from your local home improvement store in the concrete materials area
...

Don't forget to put the nuts on before flaring :)
This is genius, I've been doing this the hard way for a decade.

And +1000 to the last line: I would recommend sliding on TAPING the fittings to the end of the line so that you don't forget to put them on or (almost as bad) let them slide down the line just before you bend it, trapping them behind a bend.

If that doesn't make sense, don't worry, it will.

Good luck.
 
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