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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
On September 19, 2010 I was interested in soon purchasing some new silicone lines to go along with some items I had ordered from RMS and a couple couplers for the 3 1/2 MAF and filter I had bought recently.

Being very cheap is a weakness of mine and I always try to find the best deal when possible. I knew of siliconeintakes.com from this forum and visited their website to have a look around. I found everything I needed except 12mm black silicone hose.

I started adding items to the shopping cart, the items are as follows:

1) 4 to 3 1/2 elbow in black
1) 3 1/2 inch straight coupler in black
2 feet of 6mm silicone hose in black
2 feet of 10mm silicone hose in black

The total was somewhere in the neighborhood of $37 + shipping.

Feeling content with the price, but needing 12mm hose I closed out the window and IIRC, I came and visited this forum and then Craigslist before going to bed.

Fast forward to yesterday, September 20, 2010...

I get home from work at 5:15 PM to check on my order status from RMS. I open my email to find not one email but TWO emails from: siliconeintakes.com with subjects: "Thank you for your order". These emails were dated September 19, 2010.

These are cut and pasted from my email:
----------------------------------------
Order Number: XX958
Detailed Invoice: https://www.siliconeintakes.com/account_history_info.php?order_id=39958
Date Ordered: Sunday 19 September, 2010

please sending my order ASAP..thankyou
and email me the shipping number at [email protected]

Products
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1 x Silicone Reducer, 2.5" to 2.0" - Blue (SIL000007) = $9.99
1 x 2.0" Silicone Hump Hose, Blue (SIL000012) = $12.99
1 x Silicone Reducer, 45° bend - 2.5" to 2.0" - Blue (BRE000915) = $19.99
1 x 2.0" Silicone Straight Coupler, Blue (SIL000600) = $5.99
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Sub-Total: $48.96
Standard Domestic Shipping/Handling (USPS Priority Mail: 2-3 days): $9.99
Total: $58.95

Delivery Address
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steven halim
159 chestnut st
newark, NJ 07105
United States

Billing Address
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steven halim
159 chestnut st
newark, NJ 07105
United States

Payment Method
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Credit Card

The other email...
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Order Number: XX956
Detailed Invoice: https://www.siliconeintakes.com/account_history_info.php?order_id=39956
Date Ordered: Sunday 19 September, 2010

Products
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1 x Silicone Reducer, 45° bend - 2.5" to 2.0" - Blue (BRE000915) = $19.99
1 x 2.0" Silicone Hump Hose, Blue (SIL000012) = $12.99
1 x 2.0" Silicone Straight Coupler, Blue (SIL000600) = $5.99
1 x Silicone Reducer, 2.5" to 2.0" - Blue (SIL000007) = $9.99
------------------------------------------------------
Sub-Total: $48.96
Standard Domestic Shipping/Handling (USPS Priority Mail: 2-3 days): $9.99
Total: $58.95

Delivery Address
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My address...

Billing Address
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My address...

Payment Method
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Credit Card

===============================

As you can see from the orders they are the exact same minus the address and the order numbers, which are seperated by order #XX957.

Scrolling up in my email I reveal two more emails from them titled: "Order update". Which simply states the two orders' USPS Tracking Number.

I did a little investigating and found that the order Mr. Steven Halim was not charged to my account. He had used his own credit card...THANK GOODNESS!!!

However, when looking into my PAYPAL, I see the account empty. I look into the bank account that PP is connected to and found a $6.28 charge to my checking for using ?PayPal Express?

I called the company and left a message stating the above. I also emailed the company about the incident.

Here is my email to the company:
--------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Me
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 5:13 PM
To: Silicone Intake Systems, Inc.
Subject: Your question from www.siliconeintakes.com


On September 19, 2010 I was charged for products I did not purchase.

You can refer to order numbers: XX956 and XX958.

As you can see from the orders, they are exactly the same, but one is
shipped to a Steven Halim in New Jersey.

I was charged $58.95 for the products + $6.28 for the PayPal charge to my
credit card for a total of $65.23.

I would like the sum of $65.23 deposited in to my PayPal account:
[email protected]

Thank you for your attention to the matter.
------------------------------------------

Fast forward to today...

I recieve a phone call from a customer service rep at siliconeintakes.com. She simply stated that she called to let me know they sent me an email explaining "What we believe happened." Not being happy with the lonely response I proceeded to ask questions.

Me: what does the email state?
Her: its too long to explain.
Me: Can you give me an idea what it says?
Her: Its an email about what we believed happened.
Me: OK. Does it say anything about giving me a refund?
Her: No. We believe you and another customer used the same "Session".
Me: OOOOK? This is my fault?
Her: Its not our fault. We dont have access to your credit cards or paypal.
Me: I never agreed to any charges nor the products purchased. And you just said your program made the mistake.
Her: You can ship them back for a refund.
Me: Whos dime will this be on?
Her: Huh?
Me: Whos paying for shipping?
Her: Its the customers responsiblity.
Me: Do you have a supervisor I can speak too?
Her: He only does emails.
Me: Bye.

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The other half

Here is the email:
Hello,

I'm looking at our orders and I see the issue that you are talking about.
However, I'm also looking at our Paypal account and I don't think the money
was sent from your Paypal account twice.

Please review your Paypal account. If you believe the money was withdrawn
from your Paypal account twice, please send us the Paypal transaction ID's
for both of the payments and we will of course remedy the situation
immediately.

I'll try to explain what happened and how the information was transferred
from one order to the other, and why your payment data is not subject to the
same risk.

Our website, along with a very large percentage of Ecommerce websites, uses
what's called "sessions". Sessions is the way that our website tracks you
while you are on the site - so if you go from looking at a product to adding
it to your cart, our website will know it's the same person, maintaining
your cart contents. Sessions is also the way the system knows if you are
logged in or not, what account, and etc.

Sessions works by putting some info at the end of your URL - for example you
might see a URL like this on our site:
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/index.php?cPath=4&osCsid=c9c3f9f2911bd876f7eb
29f4f4cec105

osCsid=c9c3f9f2911bd876f7eb29f4f4cec105 is the Session ID. Like any other
way of tracking users, sessions has a downside, in that if someone else
happens to get your session ID while your session is still active, they can
steal your session, meaning they will get your cart, and be logged in as you
if you are logged in at the time. The stealing of a session is not usually
malicious. Some ways that someone might manage to get your session ID, in
order of most common to least common:

1. You post a raw link in a forum or website, that still includes your
session ID, like this:
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/index.php?cPath=4&osCsid=c9c3f9f2911bd876f7eb
29f4f4cec105 and someone clicks that link. If your session is still active,
they will steal it.
2. Someone uses the computer you were using right after you and clicks
around in your History, finding the URL with the session.
3. Someone is sniffing your packets, or otherwise hacking around on your
computer or internet connection, and finds your URL with the session that
way.
4. The system accidentally generates the same session ID twice, or uses the
same session generated for two different users (this should never really
happen from a logic standpoint, but you can never be 100% sure.)

Sessions expire soon after you stop using the site, and a new session is
generated each time you log in. As you might imagine, the stealing of a
session is an incredibly rare occurrence. We've processed almost 40,000
orders now and this is the second time it has happened.

Your payment details are never at risk in this scenario. If you pay with a
credit card, our system never stores your credit card details. Therefore the
stealing of a session would never result in another person obtaining your
card details, and would never result in using your credit card to pay for an
order. If you pay with Paypal, our system never has access to your Paypal
login details because you go off-site to the Paypal website to log in to
Paypal.

I'm sorry for this confusing situation. Again, please check your Paypal
account to verify that you only sent us the one payment. I can see when
checking our account that the other user actually paid with a credit card
for their order.

Thanks,

Meredith
www.siliconeintakes.com
----------------------------------

This is all I have to write at the moment other than PP will not request a dispute on my credit card charge. The best possible out come is I get a refund minus shipping and my credit card charge which should not be a hit to my pocket. Their program. Their mistake.
 

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I have ordered and returned items to them 3 times - never an issue
I would order from them again.
 

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As someone who runs a mail order and internet ordering website....that is unacceptable.

If something like that happened in my web store (which uses different technology, so it would not) I would simply apologize, claim the error was all our fault and email the customer a UPS return label and credit their card the moment I get it back. Big deal, I am out a $10 return shipping label. The customer rightfully thinks that I was man enough to admit fault and take action to correct it. My hope here would be that the customer would realize that errors happen and someday when they need something else come back to me knowing I did the right thing.

There is no reason for them to even need to tell you what happened, just admit they were wrong and take action to fix it. Because they have not done that you are on the net keeping multiple people from ever wanting to order from them. It's sad really that they could not simply admit fault and move on.

I wish you luck in your battle!

Doug
 

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Wow, I really don't like when these companies that operate over the internet have such poor and unhelpful customer service.

Please keep us informed of the situation. I had heard of this company through the forum and considered ordering from them.

Good luck!
 
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