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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Had a drop spindle break on me so I'm putting the factory spindles back on. I have global west springs in the front & needing to cut them to drop the front of the car back down. What are the coil cut formulas; ie 1 coil 2 inches or?? Thanks
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
FYI : if you want to ask a question to ONE person, e-mail or PM to that person alone. It is VERY VERY RUDE to the other 10K members of the forum otherwise (basically, you're telling them to F-off, and that their info/opinion doesn't matter).

On the GWs, 1 coil is a 3 inch drop.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well, since he got his answer, we can turn this thread into something useful for others as well?

I wonder about the non-mounted, uncompressed length of the GW 750lb/in springs, how many inches?

My Caprice is just a low-buck beater project, so keeping costs down is one of the important priorities. An incredible amount of stock car parts fit our vehicles, as the popular (in circle track racing) 70-81/2nd gen F-body shares lots of parts with our platform - picking parts from the same bin is an easy choice.
Stock Car Products - Street Stock springs

If 12" is too short, there are lot's of spring shims that are adjustable, to get the desired height. If too tall, the 9.5" springs and tall adjusters can be used - all dirt cheap.

Most anyone with B-bodies seem to prefer doing everything to their car suspension-wise with springs, bars and other bolt-on parts, and love tubular arms for the wow-factor, despite that other than the corrected UBJ mounting angle, no real geometry gains are had other than easier alignment when lowered. The most technical thread involved with suspension must be the one with the (crappy) spindle-spacers, where increasing rollcenter height, and shortening the front view swing arm (help negative camber-gain) were barely mentioned. Someone should really map out the front suspension at stock ride height, and ~1-2" lowered, and find the best compromize using bolt-on parts (Tall upper/lower balljoints), correcting bump-steer and rollcenter height. (Hard-core guys can move/lower/whatever (cut & weld) their upper control arm "towers"/mounts for even better results).

This is not meant to badmouth anyone, just that this forum has a lot of members with lots of knowledge about dragracing and drivetrain, but the auto x-ers and road racers must feel a little "outside" the main group...
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Stock Car Products has hypercoil 12" springs from 800 to 1500 lbs. for only $39.95 each. Has anyone else considered using these springs?
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Originally posted by boojum:
Stock Car Products has hypercoil 12" springs from 800 to 1500 lbs. for only $39.95 each. Has anyone else considered using these springs?
Yep... they're too short.
But, they would work if you bought or fabed up a "spacer" to take up the extra space. Remember that your spacer has to allow the shock to run through the center of the spring.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Then buy the short one here:
Speedway Motors - Spring shims
Stock Car Products has them as well, but I found a better picture here.

Or buy the tall one, and cut to suit your needs. From the photos, it looks like the tall one has a bigger hole/threads and more shock clearance. The text only states one size for the hole, so...

I'll go this route when I start on my beater Caprice.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
There are a couple of issues with those spacers for a street car.

The first of one is that it requires welding (maybe). If you can do it and have the equipment, that's great. If you are willing to pay to have it done that's great too. I put maybe in parentheses because I've been told they will/can ride in place without welding them in... but I don't know if I'd be comfortable with that on a street car.

You will need to find a way to keep the unit from changing it's own setting. I have played with these a little and I think a LARGE dose of loctite MIGHT hold it in place. Or maybe even a shot of RTV on the threads when you find out where you like it. Otherwise it will rotate under vibration and gradually lower your ride height.

Trust me... I've looked at these options long and hard.. and they look cheap and easy. But once you pay $40 each for the "cheap" springs and $30 each for the spacers you've got $140 in the pair... plus the labor to make it happen.
Since I sell "race" springs for $135 that are a drop it fit... it just doesn't add up in my book.

On the other had... if you think you are going to tune your suspension to the point that you need a shelf full of springs for every 50lb and you need the ride height adjustment... it may be worth your effort.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Originally posted by Rustic:
The first of one is that it requires welding (maybe). If you can do it and have the equipment, that's great. If you are willing to pay to have it done that's great too. I put maybe in parentheses because I've been told they will/can ride in place without welding them in... but I don't know if I'd be comfortable with that on a street car.
They are somewhat common on more "hardcore/P-T/AutoX" cars, and I have yet to see anyone with this problem, but I see what you mean. One solution is welding on a bolt to the spacer, and bolting it to the frame, an other is what I'm planning - just a couple of tack welds to ease adjustment (and so they don't fall out during suspension work)

You will need to find a way to keep the unit from changing it's own setting. I have played with these a little and I think a LARGE dose of loctite MIGHT hold it in place. Or maybe even a shot of RTV on the threads when you find out where you like it. Otherwise it will rotate under vibration and gradually lower your ride height.
Ok, unless the spring is loose in it's pocket when the suspension is in full droop, or you go jumping curbs all the time, this won't be a problem. I assume you know what a motion ratio for a suspension is, and what kind of leverage it creates between the CA and frame (and why we have springs a lot stiffer in the front) given your background on this forum. I have a lot more worries about it rusting solid in my nordic climate, and hope copper-paste or grease will suffice on keeping it loose.

Trust me... I've looked at these options long and hard.. and they look cheap and easy. But once you pay $40 each for the "cheap" springs and $30 each for the spacers you've got $140 in the pair... plus the labor to make it happen.
Since I sell "race" springs for $135 that are a drop it fit... it just doesn't add up in my book.
This is true to US-citizens, but to get these parts over here, spacers and other small items will go in my luggage (My father is american), and the springs by mail/etc. Coming over here, 25% tax is added to the total (the part itself and freight), then that won't work for me. For most people with B-bodies, your springs are great, but some might want to consider what their options are.

On the other had... if you think you are going to tune your suspension to the point that you need a shelf full of springs for every 50lb and you need the ride height adjustment... it may be worth your effort.
To each and their own I guess, I want to accurately set ride height for other reasons, and want to play around with corner weights, so my choise is clear. There's no "one size fits all" to our cars, I assume you agree to some extent. I'm not out to prove you wrong, I just people to know there are options out there - and that they decide for them selves what suits them best.

Oh, one more thing Rustic; I've tried to read about your "test-beds"/race cars, but all I found previously was scattered all over - do you have a site or a place somewhere with more spesific info? Maybe I'm just blind and have stumbled my way past this earlier. There's not much on the net regarding to B-bodies doing anything other than accellerate in a straight line...
EDIT - Forget it, I feel too dumb for not seeing it on your "business-page"
But I'm still interested in more details regarding suspension, thoughts on this, solutions for the rear, etc.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have the tall shims and 9.5" springs in the Chevelle right now, and another set on the shelf for the wagon going in when I'm done working on the Chevelle.

The short shims need to be welded in, the tall ones do not.

I cut my tall ones down 1" and had an initial setting of 2" (11.5" free height) but that's about 1" too low. Setting them at 12" free height will have my Chevelle sitting right where its needed.

I will never do another car without these. They require some effort to adjust the height, but for the money saved over coil-overs, I can do a little work.

I will tune my suspension, way more than just slapping on some band-aid sway-bars and calling it good. I'm starting with 700# on both cars, and I'm expecting to not be satisfied with the chevelle - probably will end up at ~950# eventually, but I intend to play with the rates a while to get it balanced. The wagon needs to ride a little better, so I'm hoping I'll be satisfied with the 700s. That car won't be tuned as well anyway since it will have those impossible-to-tune non-linear-rate rear helper air bags in it for towing.


As you can see, I'd be spending a bunch of money again if I didn't have the adjusters, since I was about an inch low in front on my calculations. Doh!

 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
To each and their own I guess, I want to accurately set ride height for other reasons, and want to play around with corner weights, so my choise is clear. There's no "one size fits all" to our cars, I assume you agree to some extent. I'm not out to prove you wrong, I just people to know there are options out there - and that they decide for them selves what suits them best.
I agree with you completely... everyone need to decide for themselves what they want/need and what they are willing to go through to get it.
Options are good for everybody.

Ok, unless the spring is loose in it's pocket when the suspension is in full droop, or you go jumping curbs all the time, this won't be a problem. I assume you know what a motion ratio for a suspension is, and what kind of leverage it creates between the CA and frame (and why we have springs a lot stiffer in the front) given your background on this forum.
This is what I assumed too. But in talking with the guys around here that run those on dirt tracks... they tell me that they commonly have to be "re-set" after a couple of weekends. So, based on that... I had to assume that a daily driver would have the same issues over time. But I don't personaly have any experience with them. Your right on the rust... that might even be worse!!

On my road race car... the American Iron rules states that you must have 5" of clearence at the lowest point of the frame (or unibody)... this doesn't include things like exhaust.

So i'm somewhat limited on that adjustment. But beyond that we can do almost anything as far as suspensions are conserned. I'm currently running the arms that I sell... for obvious reasons. But at the end of this year I may remove the stock upper arm mounts and weld them in a better location.

In the rear I will also be running my new rear arms... again for obvious reasons. Once they have proven themselves I may scrap them for a more race-derived rear. But I have yet to determine that what I have is a limiting factor to my lap times.

Since we can't run a tire wider that 275... that's my big limiter.... so I need to keep as much of that 275mm on the pavments as often as I can ;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Originally posted by Rustic:
they tell me that they commonly have to be "re-set" after a couple of weekends. So, based on that... I had to assume that a daily driver would have the same issues over time.
Check out Denny's daily-driven '68 el camino. He's running 950# Tru-Coil springs and the tall adjusters here: http://www.onrails.us/index.html

Again, that's daily driven (with a 2.5" front cross-member height :eek: ) with no problems whatsoever with the adjusters.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for all the comments.

I admit I don't know nothinig about suspension tunning. I do know that with a stock 9C1 I just plow right through all the tight autocross turns with any speed at all. I know a couple people here have suggested 1000# front springs. I have also found other even lighter cars running stiff springs. I don't think of these 12" springs as cheap just less expensive than Global West. Just a few weeks ago someone on eBay had 1000# used AFCOs for $10. I'm just looking at my options. A bigger sway bar isn't exactly cheap either.

I didn't know Chris had racing springs. That's great, another option to choose from!

5" clearance on American sedan class. I don't think my son's Camaro will make that. Oh well it has a LT1 in it now anyway.

I don't have any real set goals. In autocross I would like to get my times a little closer to my Son's in his Camaro. Besides having a car that weighs about 1000 pounds, less he's a better driver. :mad: Maybe the 275/40/17s I just got will help. There are also a few local hill climbs that look interesting.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Originally posted by boojum:
I don't think of these 12" springs as cheap just less expensive than Global West. Just a few weeks ago someone on eBay had 1000# used AFCOs for $10. I'm just looking at my options. A bigger sway bar isn't exactly cheap either.

5" clearance on American sedan class. I don't think my son's Camaro will make that. Oh well it has a LT1 in it now anyway.

I don't have any real set goals. In autocross I would like to get my times a little closer to my Son's in his Camaro. Besides having a car that weighs about 1000 pounds, less he's a better driver. :mad: Maybe the 275/40/17s I just got will help. There are also a few local hill climbs that look interesting.
When I used the word "cheap"... I didn't mean that they were poor product... I just meant that since you had to buy spacers to make them work that they aren't really cheaper than the others.
The 750# "race" springs I sell are basically the same as the GLobal West parts. And my 850# springs are over 900# once you trim them down.

Please note that the 5" rule is for NASA American Iron.... not SCCA American Sedan... they're are many differences between the 2.

Yep.. more rubber on the ground will help you out. Please keep us posted on your progress... on the car and the driver ;)
 
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