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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok everyone, I just want to get the ball rolling in a non-confrontational way. This thread is NOT to discuss the Chuck Spera issue, that is on another thread in this section. Chuck Spera / ISSCA Discussion

This is PURELY to discuss the 2005 ISSCA Nationals and the possible venue switch. Here is a post I made on an east coast Impala forum, but it pertains to everyone. I have spoken to Harvey, and I don't think I am posting anything that is not public knowledge. If so, my apologies to ISSCA.

I have been getting a lot of emails and phone calls lately asking if the dates have been nailed down, or if the venue was nailed down. I suppose since LISST is one of the host clubs in the area (along with many others) that people think we know the final decision. We don't, because it hasn't been made yet.

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Here are the choices ISSCA has at this late point:

1. Englishtown July 7-9 2005 but with no road course since E-Town will most likely not finish on time.

2. Move it up the road and have it in the Pocono Mountains in Pennsylvania (great road course) and the drag racing piece would be at nearby Island Dragway in NJ. This event would be the following week if it does move, the week after the dates above for Englishtown.

3. Have it at E-Town and have the road race in the Pocono's, with all road racers having to drive 2.5 hours to get to the course.

My personal thoughts:

A. I think E-Town is a much bigger draw than Island Dragway/Pocono's, if only for the name recognition. To most, especially those who don't know a lot about the east coast scene, racing your car at E-Town is like getting to sing at Carnegie Hall or playing baseball at Yankee Stadium. In other words, it has the name recognition and the drawing power to attract a LOT of people. It is a prestigious track and some of the greatest drag racers in history have raced there.

B. As someone who has raced at a lot of tracks on the east coast, E-Town is no longer the best track around. It's still great, but not the best. Island Dragway treated us very nicely TWICE this summer, plus it was prepped very nicely (read: good starting line). Additionally, they will close the track for us, so we have it all to ourselves, which ETown will not do.

C. If I am going to take my family to an event for 3-5 days, it would sure as hell be nicer to take them to the lovely Pocono Mountains (a vaction paradise for years) instead of central NJ. Sorry NJ guys, but this isn't at the Jersey shore.

D. The Pocono's / Island Dragway will be a lot cheaper, probably about $40 per day including taxes.

E. The drive from E-Town to the Pocono's is not that bad, it would be a lovely highway cruise.

That being said, I don't know what the best decision is.

+ On the one hand, Bill the ISSCA Marketing Guy thinks E-Town is the best draw, it will pull in the most people just for name recognition alone.

+ But on the other foot, Bill thinks that for bringing your family somewhere, or even yourself, the Pocono's are 10x better. Plus, Island Dragway, as stated above, treats us VERY WELL. Plus it will be cheaper.

So, what is the best decision? Englishtown for the name recognition (I truly think more will come 'just' to race at E-Town)? Or Pocono's/Island for a better event, nicer vacation, etc?

Let's hear the opinions ladies!!!!!
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
It's a hard decision, for all the reasons you mentioned.
Good post by the way.

I trust that the Etown staff would certainly be able to complete our event, (2 heads up classes and the one big bracket class). But waiting in the lanes for the "other" cars will be a damper...100+ Corvette Challeng cars, ~100 GMHTP cars, ~50+ test-n-tune cars. And then having the evening session gate open at 3pm and all of them breathing down our necks waiting for us to finish.....eeek
Etown is a nice place.
Island WANTS to do us good. We can tell just by how they treated us and how the owner speaks to us. The actually groomed the track numerous times just prior to some of our rounds when we were there as 30 ECIRS cars. Think what they would do if it were 100 ISSCA cars. (ISLAND dragway reminded me of my home track Maryland Int'l Raceway when they have a national event. The track is groomed many times during the event and the starting line is as good as can be). But that being said, many of us learned that a horrible starting line, (such as the one at Etown during GMHTP-LiSStDragDay), can be benneficial to a few very experienced racers. I say that as an asside and in jest. But we do want a good event for the general membership.

Hotel at POCONO, (much cheaper). I vote for that.

Being near NYC and Etown "Prestige" I vote for that.

People have really began to love road course events. A fast open autocross, (I am told), is just not the same. I think then that for maximum enjoyment, then Pocono raceway road course is a must. (unless some sort of road course can be found near Etown).

We can have fun at either venue so if it turns out to take place where you don't think it should, then enjoy it anyway. I will.

Karl Ellwien
Region 12 director
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What is Pocano, chopped liver???? This is one of the top tracks in the nation, and will have huge draw just on name recognition alone. Unfortunatly I won't have a car again this year, but if I were, I would want to go to Island/Pocano. It's cheaper, you won't have to fight the croud(racers and city traffic), and being as it will be mid July, I might actually have a chance to make it.
Let's hope so!

Mav
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
For those of us who went to Tulsa, it's obvious we're not picky about where we get together, as long as we do get together!

Good formula:

Keep the costs down.--This may allow ISSCA to do some of the "extra" stuff like a dyno, and those kind of things, as we did in Tulsa. Even though Vegas was run/scheduled better, Tulsa still offered more.

Keep it simple.--Who wants to drive all over hell to different parts of the event. If I get clear out there, the last thing I'll want to do is MORE DRIVING!

Keep it familiar--Have BK do the announcing at the racing events.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Bill, thanks so much for bringing this up. I think it's important to make the right choice here to properly represent the East Coast scene.

I'd much rather hold the drag race event at Island for all the reasons mentioned here. Island is the better track for real racers and although it's in the mountains with a higher elevation, the DA is usually as good if not better than E-Town. Likewise, the line at E-Town will be horrible for those not running slicks. You could swing a dead cat and hit 3 tracks with a better starting line than E-Town.

Starting line issues aside, the fact that we have to share the track while paying a high price for it is flat out WRONG! We get ~100 cars at the LISST drag day with ~50 or more that actually race. We pay the $25 entry fee and do our thing. I don't believe that we'll be getting more services for what I suspect will be an exponentially higher price!

I do love E-Town and I've had a lot of fun there, but I think we'd be fooling ourselves if we think we'll get priority over the beloved Corvette Challenge. Waiting in the lanes will be the theme of the day (unlike what we had in Vegas). Since it's gonna be on Saturday it'll be a muffler only day with a curfew. I suspect that if we have a huge turnout it will force the track to push us out even faster in order to get the CC done in time. I'd love for this to be different and I would push just as hard for E-Town if it weren't for sharing the track. But as it stands there are just too many negative factors against them. However, I'll support whatever decision is made and lend a hand wherever needed.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Originally posted by HuSSker:
Keep it familiar--Have BK do the announcing at the racing events.
Only possible if he won't have anything running to race with. In other words, count on the Big Kahuna at the mic.
:D
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Originally posted by 4dr LT4:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HuSSker:
Keep it familiar--Have BK do the announcing at the racing events.
Only possible if he won't have anything running to race with. In other words, count on the Big Kahuna at the mic.
:D
</font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, good call Bob! I NEVER make it to the track!
click here: www.ecirs.org
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hey Kahuna. You missed THE BEST TRACK! MIR!!!
Had you made that trip, you could have had the chance to knock me off that "unbeaten at MIR in the modern era" throne!
Come to think of it, glad you didn't make it.
hehe.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
From what I have read so far I can't see how not to choose Island/Pocano. I personally would not attend a "national event" if there was no road course. A high speed auto-x is not even close! We drove to Tulsa and drove to Vegas so east coast ain't so bad, but driving 2.5 hours I'm guessing each way to a track doesn't sound much fun. Because as we all know these events are'nt a "vacation" they are a lot of work. We could start a poll and let the members vote or send a voting card to everyone with ups and downs of each option.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
SSBoy;

Good email. I want 100 more of these so Harvey and everyone else can make the best decision.

That being said, I just wanted to point out that here on the east coast we drive 4-9 hours for our ECIRS races about 10 times a year. Half the fun is caravanning on the highway with a bunch of other sick B-Bodies.

Of course, that 4-9 hour drive isn't on the heels of you driving half way across the country to get to the event.

Keep the posts coming guys!

Bill
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
"Because as we all know these events are'nt a "vacation" they are a lot of work. "

Yeah, and that's just the car show!
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
At Dreamapalooza, I don't remember how far we had to drive to the dragstrip but it was a ways. Anyway, it really sucked to drive that whole way just to EVENTUALLY go back because of rain. I would HATE doing a 5 hour round trip if the road course got rained out. Please don't have us driving that far for one event.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
One Vote for Pocono/Island.
One Vote for NO MORE PUSH DRAGS!! There's gotta be something else we can do! I have absolutely no interest in this activity. I heard one or two guys even got hurt and many complaints from other members about what a daft activity it was. MHO.

BK, can you post that picture one more time, PLEASE!!! ;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
All the little skinny guys always complain about the push drags...don't worry Zebley, you can be in the drivers seat while the big kids push your grumpy old ass down the track.

Rick;
Can you please advise us when there will be an official ISSCA response?
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Originally posted by Big Kahuna:

2. Move it up the road and have it in the Pocono Mountains in Pennsylvania (great road course) and the drag racing piece would be at nearby Island Dragway in NJ. This event would be the following week if it does move, the week after the dates above for Englishtown.

Dang, even 1 week later will not help me make it. Won't be back till 15 July.

That said, Sounds like Pocono would probably be the better experience for those that can make it. Who cares about "prestige". Tulsa didn't have any "prestige" but I am sure a lot of people showed despite that.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I have to drive all the way across the country anyway. But all I care about is the temperature. How hot does it get?????
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hey Bill,

Here's one more vote for Island Dragway/ Pocono's for all the reasons mentioned. I disagree with the angle that the national notoriety of E-town will make a bit of a difference to any of the B-body faithful that might attend. What I think we all are looking for is a well organized and run event in the best possible venue. If there are other attractions (like the Pocono Mts.) this is a bonus, especially from the family vacation perspective (although Mrs. SSONIC will likely be competing in some of the driving events as well in the Cop Car).

My 0.03


BTW that new sig pic is kinda over the top, don't you think? (braggart
)

[edit] Oh, OK it's not a sig pic, and I guess you did earn it :rolleyes: Congrats again Champ!
 
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