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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
follow up: did you properly bench bleed the master? i have found ones that will get firm, yet still make air bubbles.
Good suggestions, but yes - both were properly bench bled. However, now that you've said it - I may pull the other one off the shelf, bleed it and try again when I install the new PV.
 

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this was almost 15 years ago now, but my 89 caprice was near impossible to stop suddenly at parking lot speeds. I replaced the booster which didn't make much of a difference. changing the master is what sorted out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 · (Edited)
Pulled everything back off. The master cyl is in fine shape. The proportioning valve appeared to have rust in it. Not much, but definitely some rusty looking crap. I bought some Nicopp from "4Lifetimes" on Amazon to re-do the lines. Tip: don't buy from them. The line they sell seems to have too little nickel in it and deforms before you can get a good bubble flare on it. I used two different flaring tools and must have tried 10-12 times - never got a good flare. Back to Amazon it goes. I am driving out to Summit tomorrow to pick up some of their house-brand Nicopp and yet another - but far more expensive - flaring tool. Also, as a reminder, all but one of the OEM flares are bubble - not double. Try to save all the OEM fittings as you replace the lines. The master cyl is bubble, but the aftermarket PV is double, so thus the requirement to flare all new lines.

The proportioning valve I am installing is a PV4, which is made for disc/disc cars.

Pic of how the 4Lifetimes line deforms:
Cylinder Wood Gas Font Metal
 

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I've used NiCu from thestopshop on amazon. no issues flairing. Though their flare nut packages tend to have missing pieces lately. Figure it's been covid staffing issues.

One thing i've notice is almost all of the generic double flare kits out there today have dies that don't have the step for correctly setting the height of the tube. Resulting in too much sticking out and getting mangled as you do the first flare
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 · (Edited)
It's definitely the line from Amazon. The stuff I purchased from Summit was a bit harder and flared perfectly.
The tool I purchased made perfect flares from the very first one I put in the die. This bugger was expensive, but after spending literally 4-5 hours fighting with the crappy $60 tool, this was money well spent.
Circuit component Red Engineering Gas Plastic


Here's how Summit's line flared:
Water Wood Metal Cylinder Natural material


And the Amazon crap - same tool.
Cylinder Nickel Metal Aluminium Macro photography


It should be noted that I've never flared a line or make a brake line in my life, so this was all forging new ground for me. If anyone decides to go down this road, bring your patience, your forming pliers and a good tubing bender. The nicopp stuff bends really, really easily so it makes this job miles easier than it would be using steel. Also, you'll probably want to have both a bench mounted flaring tool, and a handheld one you can use on the car. Some lines you won't want to take back off to flare an end. For me, that was the front passenger line. I flared the bubble (wheel side) on the bench, then formed the line, then flared the PV side when it was in the car. The driver's front I flared entirely on the bench.

The lines going from the MC to the PV were the most challenging for me. This was mainly due to the length of the lines and the general geometry. The bends are tight, space is super limited, and since you have to put the fittings on the line before you flare them, actually getting things to fit was a monumental pain in the ass. Hindsight being 20/20, I would have gotten an undermount bracket for the PV and not a side mount. It would have given me some additional space. Now that I've gotten everything to fit properly, I'm going to re-do those particular lines, but they're good enough for now.

The biggest bonus of removing the ABS and re-doing the lines (besides the general tidyness of the engine bay..) is I moved them away from the header. On the original lines, there was a cluster of them that were pretty close to the driver's side header and that never sat well with me.

Hood Black Motor vehicle Automotive tire Gas


Today, I'll run the line to the rear and then see how things all work out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
All in and plumbed. Pedal is incredibly improved - I can actually lock up the rear wheels now which I could not do before. The bias is a bit towards the back, so I may end up putting on the Wilwood adjustable PV eventually, but overall the braking is so much better. I installed some Russell speed bleeders and I'd encourage anyone that's doing brake work to consider them. They make the bleeding process stupidly simple and you don't have to fuss with a Mityvac or a Motive. I don't know if I'll ever use either of those to bleed again.

In the end, I think the issue was a combination of the ABS pump-block being slightly clogged and the proportioning valve also being junked up.
 

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Are the line inner diameters and overall lengths the same as the old ones?

Any ideas how the junk got in there in the first place?
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
The diameters are all either 1/4 or 3/16, which is what was on there. The lengths are all different due to the elimination of the ABS. Each line is shorter by a foot or so. No idea what the gunk in there was from other than age?
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
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