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Has ISSCA lost its direction????????

4577 Views 267 Replies 0 Participants Last post by  elixir
If ISSCA is "by the members / for the members" why has an ISSCA BOD members been " secretly voted off" and another resigned from the Board of directors.
I am forwarding these emails that have been on other list for your viewing.
Subject: [Fwd: resignation]

From: dana miller
> To: [email protected]
> CC: [email protected],
[email protected],
> [email protected]
> Gentlemen:
> When I was asked to join the ISSCA BoD I was
> under the impression that I was joining a group of
> enthusiasts who were working together for the
> of all club members. I was proud and happy to be a
> member of ISSCA and certainly honored to be asked
> help guide the club on to bigger and better things
> through the BoD.
> Why in the world would a group such as this use
> meeting such as the one in San Antonio this last
> end to secretly vote off a long standing member of
> BoD as well as his general membership in the club,
> when he has served so long and had the interests of
> the members foremost in concern? Was it because he
> frequently ruffled the feathers of the "power
> on the BoD? Was it because he didn't go along with
> the idea of not adhering to the bylaws originally
> conceived by and put into place by this Bod? Was it
> because certain people on the BoD of ISSCA got tired
> of him stopping them from doing just what ever they
> felt like doing irrespective of the mandates of the
> bylaws. I don't know, because I was not able to be
> this meeting due to prior commitments. But I do
> one thing.........his position as a director as well
> as his membership, and the deciding of whether or
> he was going to continue to be "allowed" to remain a
> director/member was certainly NOT on any agenda of
> items to be addressed during this meeting that I was
> given. I wonder exactly why that was.
> Not only did this "honorable" group of
> slip this action into the agenda when the "victim"
> wasn't looking, but they decided his fate by vote
> he wasn't there to defend himself, or given the
> opportunity to make his own case. He was tried,
> judged guilty and summarily eliminated all without
> knowledge. He was then mailed a letter informing
> of this decision without anyone on the "honorable"
> having the decency to face him. Is this any way to
> treat any member of a club that claims to have the
> member's best interests at heart, let alone a
> distinguished founding board member?
> It seems to me that if this BoD undertakes to
> operate in this "cloak and dagger" manner towards
> of it's own, what would it deem appropriate
> of a "lowly" member-at-large? Seems to be a
> worthy of consideration by all you
> think???
> Based on the deplorable actions of this BoD,
> my inability to fathom any justification for this
> behavior by the BoD, I hereby give notice of my
> resignation not only from the ISSCA BoD, but also my
> membership in ISSCA. I will not be assiciated with
> any club that acts this way toward any member.
> Dana Miller
> ISSCA #0256
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Well... Having seen the official release, it looks to me like they did what they had to do. I am happy to see they called an earlier meeting to deal with this.

I was unaware that Chuck had been warned previously. He may have known it was coming... Anyways, I don't need to know what he did. If he wants us know, he'll post here. I was just concerned with how his dismissal was handled. I've met him a few times in person and he seems like a nice guy, but if he needed to be removed as badly as it seems, then so be it. I still hope to see him at the events that I normally do.

Seems to me like the BoD did what they needed to do. 3/4 vote or majority... Doesn't seem to matter at this point. The 10/2 for/against says it all. Does it seem shady? Not as much as it did, now that the "reason" is out. Could they have handled it better, with a chance for a rebuttal? Possibly? Would it have made a difference? Doesn't look like it.

I like Carla's (and other's) additions to the by-laws. Maybe they could be the topic of the next meeting?

Time to put it behind us and move on.
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Tell the issca bod, Thanks for the revised version of the minutes...

We will move on.... NO Doubt at all...
I am sure that the truth will prevail...

Originally posted by LT4 INSIDE:
...Well done to all who have wrote their comments... the word is spreading quickly and people are part of the cause... A BIGGER CAUSE...
Originally posted by LT4 INSIDE:
.....Everyone has their point of view... so if this is how you saw Chuck, fine, you don't need to blast Chuck when you have only known him from issca over a short term basis.....
Well...let's see.....encourage support for a friend....turn a blind eye towards those who blast the BoD (maybe give them a bit of encouragement too); but then tell a guy who had a negative opinion of your friend to (in effect) shut-up :confused: :confused: ???

Sorry....can't have it both ways Sir

A man has an opinion; let him express himself. If Mr. Spera cares to rebute what's said or done....let him defend himself.

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Originally posted by KW Baraka:
From: Somewhere in Kuwait | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged |
Get home safe ok?
I second that Bill, when ya coming home Kevin?
Originally posted by Rob Hamilton:
I second that Bill, when ya coming home Kevin?

Should be stateside first week in March. My work will be done in January but the way me orders are written, I have to stay at least six months.

No biggie....I knew that from the onset and when I left I was really prepared to stay until June so I guess I'm gettin' off light!!

Anyway....looking forward to seeing you ALL in New Jersey/Pennsylvania next July!!!

Take care!

I guess in my eyes the bylaws are very flawed.
If by voting by a majority to remove a member removes them as a director/officer etc then the bylaw sections that outline the proper way to get rid of directors and such which outline a required 3/4 vote is worthless and means nothing.

And the way it's done now (apparently) would allow anyone to get rid of any BOD member they see fit. All that is needed is to keep bringing up the vote every meeting. If you get the right people gone from the meeting then you can vote that person out. Done deal end of story.This encourages a yes man only BOD which is by far NOT what we need in a national group.

Personally I do not care "why" chuck is kicked out. All I care about is the "how" he was kicked out. Having been a member of my union for 13+ years and a steward for 4+ years of those I have seen alot of "politics" in my time. If in fact the current BOD cares any at all about a group that is By the people and For the people (Or whatever) then the bylaws need to be redrafted in full.

When an elected official is voted in office the voters fully expect them to stay in office until the end of their term unless there is a good reason for it and not just a personality conflict.

The facts that the current BOD are not producing on the promises of the Bylaws should be enough to vote pretty much the whole list of officers off. Things such as the late magazine deliveries... Or not having shows that are required etc... In "real life" if such promises were made and not kept then the persons responsible would be fired. The fact that a variety of things that are promised in the bylaws are over looked and just not done leaves one to wonder why we even have a national club.

Is it so the lucky few who have the time to go to shows and the money can be showered with trohpies paid for by those of us who can't?

I guess this thread in my mind has brought up alot more problems with the club then just the fact they used an improper portion of the bylaws to kick Chuck out of the club.

I have a few ideas of my own about changes but this thread is not the place for it. But in the mean time you can expect that I won't be rejoining ISSCA anytime in the near future. Not until the BOD realizes who's club this is.
Oh and although I will be suggeting to anyone to join their local groups I can not with good conscience suggest to anyone to join ISSCA.
In my mind if the recent stuff posted is any indication of what this group is about we are better off if it dies. (That includes the post about what chuck supposedly did which basically made a show not happen. If it did indeed happen it is an example of bad direction of the BOD and Chuck by far is not the only one responsible. ALL of the current officers are responsible.)

Would be nice to have a group that truley is for the extension of our enjoyment and not just so the officers can have a power trip.

(My appologies to those directors who give their all and get shot down because it doesn't help out the "good feelings" of the BOD.. )

Oh as an example of how our union gets rid of people... Its much like a court case. The accuser lists the actual factual reasons why charges are to be brought against one. The accused is allowed time to respond (Say they agree and resign or that they disagree) If they disagree then the president appoints a "jury" who will hear the "case" Both the accuser and accused present their sides, the "jury" asks their questions if there are any then the accuser and accused then are asked to leave. The jury has to reach an agreement on the accused guilt or innocent then if guilty discuss the proper penalty of the "crime". The BOD are not involved at this point and they have to stand by what the "jury" decides. The jury is supposed to be made up of unbiased members who are not directors or officers etc. It works out real well and takes the politics right out of it. (Except for the fact that the president has to appoint the "jury"...)

But since the BOD have decided the bylaws are made to make the BOD a yes man forum to the presidents whims (Or whoever "takes charge" as someone always does and it isn't necissarily the president. ) you won't see me support this club any further or want any part of it.

Diversity and arguing on a board is necissary to grow and provide new ideas. Compromise is always important but there is no compromises made if there are no new ideas or "two sides" to the story to work out. But it is important to reach a compromise of some sort.

The removal of Chuck as a Member period by the board and how it was carried out regardless if it was warrented or not opens my eyes to the idea that the board only cares about having yes men and don't truley care about the members as a whole. For one if that was the case then they would have voted to remove Chuck as a BOD member but not as a ISSCA member. Good luck with the club. This action as a whole is just an insite to this clubs future failure as the club it was intended to be and it will soon become just another NAISSO... Lots of promises and no results. Or atleast not the results the members desire.
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You know, I'd hoped this thread would go silent.

One thing I'll highlight now is that Chuck had a major say and was very instrumental in the construction and wording of the ISSCA by-laws. If you have a problem with them ... ask Chuck!

We are not a union, we're a car club. We aren't a member because we have to be, it's because we want to be ... we're car nuts.
Originally posted by elixir:
................. :cool: .................
Hey Elixer, you have it wrong simply.
We are not anarchist. The club cannot run and conduct business if all the members are involved in every decision. We MUST be run by our officers.
It is plan and simple.
Karl Ellwein
I think Elixer point was it appears that the BOD, or some portion of the BOD, have their own best interest at heart and not that of the members.
Originally posted by DonL:
I think Elixer point was it appears that the BOD, or some portion of the BOD, have their own best interest at heart and not that of the members.
I can understand that this has hit close to home for you folks. I can assure you that ISSCA has always been about the members. ISSCA is an non-profit national club. The only agenda the present BoD has is to see that ISSCA is a success as a national club and that the members receive a value for their membership and that we can attract vendors to help us support our addiction to this car series.

Many have said that the BoD volunteered for their duty and you would be correct. It sure doesn't help when others sit back and throw stones at their efforts though. Walk a mile in their shoes first. It's like saying "they asked for it, so they had it coming". What if there was no one to step up to the plate and take on the task? Answer? There would be no national club.

The problem is, no response outside of MISSL will satisfy this issue for MISSL. For that I am truly sorry.
Pst.... Im not an MISSL Member...

Yea and I guess DonL said what I said in a sentence that I took a little more then a sentence to say...

I was also pointing out that if they are willing to "work around" the Bylaws on this issue what else will they do that on?

Before I spend money on a membership I like to know that my money is being spent in a responsible manner and that I will be getting what I paid for. I would like to believe what I read as being true.

And so you know, I have never gone to a MISSL Meeting, the only contact with Chuck that I have had was at the "dreamapalooza" where I had no direct contact and I bought a power stearing pump from him. As I said before, wouldn't matter if it was chuck or harvey who was voted out in this way to me.

But why have bylaws if you are not going to follow the intent of them. After all if it is just a car club...
Originally posted by elixir:
....Before I spend money on a membership I like to know that my money is being spent in a responsible manner....'re saying they are mis-using club funds :eek: ??? How so :confused: ?

Elixir wrote:
This action as a whole is just an insite to this clubs future failure as the club it was intended to be and it will soon become just another NAISSO... Lots of promises and no results. Or atleast not the results the members desire.
You are just wrong. And the reason you are wrong is because there are a lot more of us out there that are willing to do what it takes to make the club successful than there are guys like you pointing out "minor" issues (yes, I believe this to be a minor issue) and trying for some reason to drive the club into an early grave.

It's obvious to me from your post that you have never been part of a non-profit organization like this. People who expect ISSCA to be run like a Fortune 500 company will be continually disappointed. But this doesn't mean that the club cannot succeed at its intended goal of being a National rallying point for a great line of cars.
I get it now!

Is this like a Pro Abortion organization with Ted Kennedy as spokesmen for their Board?

Elixer - please consider renewing your membership and then run for a Directors position on the ISSCA Board. Then revisit your words a year later. Talk about one contradiction after another. Be a solution to all the problems you think exist. Your (ex-) member number indicates you've been around for a while. Is helping ISSCA a bad thing?

Doug Wood
ISSCA Member #123
Co-Director Region 9
Well first of all I get the impression you need money to be going around the country to go to these meetings quarterly. I would rather spend the money on my car at this point.

After my first post where I mentioned I would be interested in doing something if someone else was paying my way to get to and from the location we were going I really thought about it and watched what other people said and such and realized that I could be spending my time and money to try to help out on something that I would likely get frustrated with.

I am not a yes man in anyway and I let people know that up front. If I see something wrong I don't shut my mouth. Not an obstructionist but I do get my own thoughts once in a while...

(Heh heh is funny at work when I suggest things and the boss who doesn't like me says it would never work then I find us doing that specific thing the way I suggested and he takes the credit for it. Don't bother me. )

I just see myself getting frustrated with the things I have seen and heard that go on. I would likely give it my all (As I did when I was a steward) and just get flustered in the end.

As I said, I haven't renewed my membership due to not having my car on the road much the past 2-3 years. I am taking it to the shop this month for a major working over. The interior is stripped and getting body work to get it roadable again. I had been looking to renew my membership ahead of time while getting stuff together... But as you can probably see I recently changed my mind. As I see it today I see no reason to do anything other then stay with my local group (GVBBC) and stay active in this forum, the NAISSO mail list and the 9C1 mail list. ( I will be selling my house next summer then I will be possibly be looking for an Impala to go alone with my Civi Bbody and my 9C1 but not sure if my GF is gonna like that many Bbodies in the yard especially since she is scared to drive one. She currently drives a Geo Metro and feels my cars are just a tad bigger.. LOL)
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Originally posted by elixir:
Well first of all I get the impression you need money to be going around the country to go to these meetings quarterly. I would rather spend the money on my car at this point....
I thought the volunteers on the BoD pay their own way to the quarterly meetings. If not, I still see nothing wrong with the club paying the tab....that is if we truely expect the BoD to ever meet....

I was wondering if you would consider editing your signature. Your are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I am a bit offended. And I'm sure I'm not the only one... a lot of us aren't "yes men" and are active ISSCA members.

On what are you basing this claim in your Sig? After reading your last post, you seem to be somewhat neutral and leaning away from re-joining ISSCA. It also sounds like you haven't been a member for the last couple of years. So how do you claim to have this knowledge of the current body of ISSCA members?
I've stayed off this thread (for various reasons......I'll mention I DO have strong opinions about this issue though!). However.....

I thought the volunteers on the BoD pay their own way to the quarterly meetings. If not, I still see nothing wrong with the club paying the tab....that is if we truely expect the BoD to ever meet....
Put it this way : my expenses to get to the BOD meetings when I was on the board (initial meetings, 2 yrs on board, 4 meetings/yr at that point), well.....

Let's just say I've nicknamed those expenses "SStroker motor" :eek:

Would I do it again? Yes. However, I can tell from the responses I've seen on this thread that many folks really don't have any idea what is involved (and that is putting it mildly ;) ).
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