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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Highway;
I hear you. Just to address one comment, based on your address you have probably never been to E-Town but we have events there often and they can easily handle more than one event there.

Roz;
I can't believe I am saying this, but that was a clear, concise, level headed email and I agree with it 100%.

Kamchief;
If changed, Pocono road course kicks ass. The drag racing would be at nearby Island Dragway in NJ, and Island has ALWAYS treated the Impala guys very well. Plus they can give us the whole track that day.
 
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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Paul, good post. Bill DeB said it best so I won't repeat. But very well stated. And kudos for becoming a member of the board.

Karl Ellwein
Region 12 director
(anyone in that region can email me about ISSCA matters)
 
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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
uwascf, you can talk to any of the other directors. Each serve ISSCA as a whole. Someone from your region would be ideal but since you don't have one you can talk to any. (you always could talk to any).
Karl Ellwein Region 12
 
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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Paul & All

While you’re mainly correct the thread is primarily about the expulsion of an ISSCA member there has been an underlying attempt to connect this with E-Town. I thought it would be best to address that point as they are clearly seperate issues.

Also I would echo your suggestion “I'm going to urge every member of ISSCA to get in contact with your Regional Director and ask them what is going on and inform them of how you feel and what you want out of ISSCA” because ISSCA is an organization of the membership for the membership.

It is obvious there is going to be a number of opinions and reactions to the expulsion of a member of ISSCA especially one who has been involved from the beginning of ISSCA. Many will be relived others will be enraged; from their point of view they will be right, that’s what happens when difficult decisions are made and people are involved.


You make an excellent point “If the expulsion was done "correctly" according to ISSCA bylaws and has the necessary supporting hard evidence…”: first the ISSCA by- laws Article VII, Section 2, sub d: Suspension, Expulsion, and Reinstatement by the Board of Directors. States- The Board of Directors shall have summary power by vote of a majority of its members, to suspend or expel and terminate the membership of any member for conduct which in its opinion disturbs the order, dignity, business or harmony, or impairs the good name, popularity, good will, or prosperity of the organization, or which is likely to endanger conduct in violation of these Bylaws or the rules and regulations of the Club which may be taken at any meeting of such Board. After much discussion and taking in account of events that had occurred over the past three years the sitting members of the board agreed that the actions of the member warranted enacting this provision of the by-laws. This is an event that had been brewing for more than a year it was not a surprise to any of the attending members.

Another point worth mentioning is about the “secrecy” of the actions the BoD was gathered to discuss the business of ISSCA the date and place was announce many months earlier and while it is customary to have items on an agenda the BoD is by no means restricted to only those items on the agenda nor required to cover all items on the agenda as was the case in San Antonio. The BoD can and should take up any mater they fell necessary to address regarding the business of ISSCA.

As for the innuendo that all was done as a “Power struggle” or that one was an obstacle to “someone’s vision” is to illustrate one lack of understanding what happens in a board meeting with over a dozen independent strongly opinioned people, all I can say is that to get that many people to agree that an action had to be taken each having their own talking point and all focusing on the best for ISSCA validates the decision. Now let me clarify one point before it is taken wrong. I did not say all agreed to the expulsion as will be noted by the recorded vote, in fact there were at least to members there as board members for the first time that abstained. I did say however is was nearly unanimous that the member was, in the opinion of the BoD disturbing the order, dignity, business or harmony and so on as described in article VII section 2. sub d of the by-laws. Therefore the action was warranted.


Rick "Highway"

Region 6
 
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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Rick,

If this was all done correctly then I see no reason why ISSCA cannot disclose the Date, Time and Documnetation of each of these disruptive events that forced this action to be taken.

Again, I think what people are asking for is an honest diclosure, with no spin attached, of the reasoning behind this course of action.
 
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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Originally posted by HighwaySS:
After much discussion and taking in account of events that had occurred over the past three years the sitting members of the board agreed that the actions of the member warranted enacting this provision of the by-laws. This is an event that had been brewing for more than a year it was not a surprise to any of the attending members.

Another point worth mentioning is about the “secrecy” of the actions the BoD was gathered to discuss the business of ISSCA the date and place was announce many months earlier and while it is customary to have items on an agenda the BoD is by no means restricted to only those items on the agenda nor required to cover all items on the agenda as was the case in San Antonio. The BoD can and should take up any mater they fell necessary to address regarding the business of ISSCA. I did say however is was nearly unanimous that the member was, in the opinion of the BoD disturbing the order, dignity, business or harmony and so on as described in article VII section 2. sub d of the by-laws. Therefore the action was warranted.


Rick "Highway"

Region 6
Rick, obviously you were there yet you do NOT state what or when these actions/disruptive behaviors were exhibited by Chuck Spera to get him tossed out. Tell us in great detail, inquiring minds WANT TO KNOW. A club for the members and by the members should know the details. If the ISSCA BoD doesn't act in secrecy then why is an event that took place a week ago not posted on the ISSCA website (referring to meeting minutes) and why are none of the attending ISSCA BoD's forthcoming with the details of Spera's expulsion? When people do not have the facts and details are slow to emerge it puts the suspicion on the whole event/BoD.

Just the facts, please.
 
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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
This is really ridiculous. Why do they refuse to tell the members (that PAY MONEY EVERY YEAR TO BE A MEMBER) why such an action was taking and for what reason? What is the deal here? I feel sorry for the people that just renewed their membership.
 
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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
“Inquiring minds want to know” reminds me of another famous quote “depends on what the definition of “is” is”.

The board acted correctly, the no spin disclosure of events is: a motion was made at the board meeting regarding the expulsion of a member who in the opinion of the board disturbs the order, dignity, business or harmony, or impairs the good name, popularity, good will, or prosperity of the organization. The BoD debated the issue, a motion was made to vote and dully seconded then a vote was taken and a majority of members of the board voted in the affirmative to expel the member as prescribed in the by-laws.

What I find interesting and somewhat disturbing is the reaction of those who post here on the forum. It appears the majority posting regarding this matter assumes or wants to believe the BoD acted incorrectly which is the opposite of a fundamental principal in this country – the presumption of innocence – or in this instance the presumption of proper acts.

The BoD is elected by the members of ISSCA, to attend to the business of ISSCA, they are guided by the By-Laws. It is not always prudent or proper to provide the minute details “inquiring minds want to know” further the BoD has to operate in a manner that allows them to make difficult decisions with out micro management from the members of ISSCA. If the members of ISSCA are not in favor of decisions their elected representatives’ make then they need to discuss it with that elected representative and / or vote that member off the board.

Rick "Highway"
 
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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
"What I find interesting and somewhat disturbing is the reaction of those who post here on the forum. It appears the majority posting regarding this matter assumes or wants to believe the BoD acted incorrectly which is the opposite of a fundamental principal in this country – the presumption of innocence – or in this instance the presumption of proper acts. "

Please point out where on this thread (from post 4 on) you get the basis to make the statement above. I see about 30 posts, not including your post regarding what makes nationals nationals. That means you need to list about 16 posts.

Using your logic, I should never have to go to court for a driving infraction. If I were to not appear for court, I'm innocent? How's that work?
 
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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I agree with Rob. The BOD isn't Congress, and it isn't the head of a buisness. It represents our wishes. And right now, our wish is to know what is going on with ISSCA. There is absolutely no reason to keep the members in the dark. We are adults, and can take the factual information and make our own decisions on what is right and what is wrong. For God sake, it's a car club. Fun and friendship is the key, not politics.

Mav
 
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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Rick -

Given your numerous replies to this thread, I must presume that you are the new ISSCA point of contact. So, I will direct my questions to you for reply, as it appears that you are the only BOD member willing to at least step up to the plate. Let me state upfront that this is not a personal attack against you, but simply my desire to reach the truth and I am confidant that the membership can handle the truth. If you are not the correct person for me to be addressing this matter towards, please let me know who is the correct person. :confused:

Having been one of the first elected members to the ISSCA BOD, I am appalled and disappointed at the actions taken by this Board at the recent meeting in San Antonio, TX on November 13-14, 2004. While the ISSCA BOD was completely within the letter of bylaws to take the action they did, I find it difficult to believe that their actions were indicative of the intent of those bylaws. I have been involved in many volunteer organizations and had to remove members. However, we never took such cowardly actions as to not notify the member of the problem, allow the member to defend him or herself in person and even work to correct the problem. This seems to be very much like a “lynch mob” mentality.

Since the BOD chose to expel Mr. Spera from ISSCA in totality, I would question how heinous where his actions that it precipitated removing him from the club versus simply removing him from the Board. Did he commit some sort of crime wearing an ISSCA shirt and claiming he was doing so in the name of ISSCA? Did he engage in killing nuns and disabled children while driving his Impala blazoned with ISSCA stickers? My point here is that the actions of the board seem suspect given that if the Board could have mustered up a ¾ majority vote, the board simply could have removed him as a director. (Reference ISSCA Bylaws Article III, Section 1a and Article III, Section 4a) However, it appears that whoever brought this action couldn’t garner such support, so they took the more cowardly approach to simply remove him from the club, as this only required a simple majority vote. (Reference ISSCA Bylaws Article VII, Section 2d). By removing him from the club, it achieved the desired result of removing him from the board. This entire event seems very pre-meditated and suspicious. I am also surprised that this board was able to accomplish this action as the board has experienced severe difficulty having a quorum present to do business. It is my opinion that had a certain Board member not paid for another board member’s travel expenses to get to San Antonio, the Board would not have had the numbers needed and been able to conduct this action.

I can only surmise that Mr. Spera’s offensive actions were to hold a dissenting viewpoint and that he is considered a threat and not an asset. I will be the first to admit that Mr. Spera and I have on many occasions not seen eye to eye. However, I would never support simply removing a dissenting view because it didn’t match my own. Can you explain to the entire paying membership of ISSCA what Mr. Spera did to get himself ousted from the club? This will help the rest of us make sure we don’t do the same actions that would cause us to be summarily dismissed. As a lifetime member, I doubt that that my lifetime membership is a protective shield. It could be that my simply asking these questions and being controversial could get me kicked out.

Rick, the problem here is that we are not hearing anything from the Board other than you to explain what has happened. And candidly, Rick, other than citing chapter and verse to us on the Board’s rights under the bylaws, you have not answer the important question of the cause. While the Board’s position that Mr. Spera’s actions were detrimental to the organization, I would contend that the Board’s lack of response to the membership’s call for an explanation is causing far more damage and is severely calling to question the ethics and integrity of this Board. One could argue that the entire Board is in violation of Article VII, Section 2d by not responding and is “disturbing the order, dignity, business or harmony, or impairs the good name, popularity, good will, or prosperity of the organization”.

You stated that the membership could change this situation by voting out our Directors. I would argue that there is a far more effective method for the membership to communicate their displeasure and that is with their dollars. Let’s keep in mind that “By the members for the members” means you have to have members for it work. Rick, as a Director of ISSCA, your constituency is talking to you. However, you don’t seem to be hearing what we are asking and for; thus we aren’t getting any answers.

If the Board chooses to remain silent on this topic, then you will leave the membership to continue to put the pieces together and we may or may not get it correct. You can put an end to this now, but simply telling us what happened and answering the many questions that have been raised here.

I patiently wait to hear from you. Thank you for reading this post.
 
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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
It has been one full week since the BOD voted to expell Mr. Spera. I know it would be nice to have a full statement the very next day but I'm confident that a statement will be published very soon.
Personally, I am renewing my membership for 2005 because I think that is best for all and for ISSCA and for me. I enjoy the bennefits.
Maybe Mendoza will become a member too? (or anyone else who is not a member right now).
Karl Ellwein
Region 12 Director
 
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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Time isn't gonna change the facts.
Time is gonna make more people wonder.
Time is gonna make it more difficult to address this issue.

Spit it out BOD, deal with it in the light of day to the membership's satisfaction by letting us hear the other side of the story and let the club move on to coming up with a solution for what's gonna happen with the 2005 ISSCA Nationals. PLEASE!

Tick, tick, tick, tick.........................
 
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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Looks like Karl beat me to it.

Before saying anything, I must state that I was not at the San Antonio board meeting due to an overseas work assignment - from where I write this [at great personal expense I might add as the internet is not cheap over here and this is the first time I've seen these threads; my bad, and not an excuse]

Had I been at the meeting I too would have voted 'yea' to the expulsion so this removes any question as to proxy.

I agree with Karl. Answers to all the above do not happen overnight and I can understand the time involved in order to get 'all the facts' straight, of which there are many. Also, due to the nature and apparent business ethic of the subject member there may (or may not) be legal action to follow. A point nobody seems to realize or accept due to lack of information.

Had Mr. Spera been in attendance at the SA meeting, and based on the overwhelming vote of the board members, would it have made any difference as to his presence or not? Spare the 'not on the agenda' point. Obviously there had to be plenty of ammunition to bring this subject to motion. How many votes of the attending members were to expel? There is a CLEAR message here and it seems that most of the replies above just don't see it. The 'majority' obviously had justification or they would not have voted yea.

Okay, I wasn't there. But I had been to just about all of the other face to face board meetings and I can tell you, in my opinion, this action could have and should have been taken long ago based on my experiences to date on the Board of Directors. I can not provide you explicit details because it would take me quite a bit of time to put it ALL down on paper and again, there may be a legal issue here and it would be inappropriate to go further.

For those who question the BoD actions - what seems to all as NOT by the members, for the members - then you are severely mistaken. The action was to clearly improve ISSCA as a whole.

Boys and girls, the vote count SPEAKS for itself. There is no hidden agenda, no power plays, no iron fist actions. The board members voted to better ISSCA and took the appropriate action. When the facts are brought to light then you may see the light - and I emphasize MAY, as some will still not get it due to personal relationships. Just give it some time.

BTW: Board meetings are open to any and all ISSCA members to attend and observe.

Where y'all been? If you don't attend, whether you are local or not to the meeting, then it is all speculation and heresay on your part and you have no one to blame but yourself. I'm not trying to be rude or offensive here to anyone, just stating FACT. Another fact: At no time has anyone, NOT ONE, ISSCA member ever asked me after a face-to-face board meeting "how did the meeting go" or "what was or was not accomplished" - from ANY member of ANY region.

I can say to each and every one of ISSCA's members: hang in there and don't be disillusioned based on what you are hearing and reading. Folks, you just don't know what has been going on, so please save the BS and rhetoric until the facts are provided in whatever form they come in. I know you are dying for information and it will be forth coming. If this were simple you would already know - there is a message here too.

Make your judgements AFTER you have heard BOTH sides of the story. From what I have read above, words have been stated and rocks thrown at ISSCA in a knee-jerk reaction to the side of the story you have "heard".

PROMISE: The actions of the ISSCA Board of Directors were for the betterment of ISSCA and its members and was not based on personal conflicts, or something that happened at just one meeting. It was truely justified.

Respectfully,

Doug Wood
Director Region 9

PS: The ONLY reason I did not run again for a directors seat was because of the many potential long-term overseas work assignments ahead of me, and due to this I felt I could no longer adequately represent my region; it would not be fair to my regional members. It's also the reason I was not in attendance at SSHS4, sponsored by GaSSIT of which I am a founding co-member. If you don't think this hurt, you are sadly mistaken. Hurts as much as the flavor of this thread. dw
 
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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
To Doug: Missed you at SSHS4 very much! Thanks for posting a reply that I know was expensive. You and I have worked together on the board, so you know that I don't take posting to the forums lightly.

I have one question in response to your reply - If all the reasons for kicking Chuck out of the club are properly documented and justified, then why would the BoD have any concerns about legal action? One other question that I have is was Chuck and Dana's proxy votes used against Chuck? If this happened to me and my proxy vote was used against me, I think I would be more than just a little torqued off. How many actual director's were present in San Antonio and how many of the votes that made up the majority were proxy votes? If the item wasn't on the poublished agenda, how could those given their proxy vote properly instruct the proxy holder. Perhaps they would have instructed the proxy holder to vote in favor of expulsion, but they never had that chance.

To Karl: I would love to know what you feel are the exact benefits of ISSCA. All references to National Racing champions have been removed, so obviously the BoD feels this either not important or not manageable. The National Best of the Best car show tropy has never been awarded. Chris does a great job with the ISSCA Scene, but we aren't getting this on a regular basis. We do get to attend a National, but other than the first one that I did, the pricing is now pretty comparable to previous events, so there is no deal there. The Chartered Clubs may get some benefit, but larger clubs like ours don't see near the benefit perhaps that smallers clubs do. Just would love to hear your thoughts on this.

As for being a supporter of ISSCA, let me say that I was a supporter from day one!! I helped Matt Heimerdinger (GRAIL) get the word out to the leaders of the various clubs to get together a leadership meeting at i2K. I sat on the early roundtable discussion before ISSCA was born. I wanted then and I still want now for ISSCA to succeed. I have volunteered countless hours and dollars to ISSCA. I am just terribly disappointed that the BoD assumed that everyone would just take their action and not question it. I am also surprised that they didn't prepare a statement before leaving San Antonio. This would have stopped much of this thread from ever starting. My point to renewing membership is simply that the BoD shouldn't be so naive as to think that the only way the members can make their displeasure known is by voting off their Director. As paying members, we have other ways of making our voices heard. This was my only point.

Still waiting to hear the truth of the events in San Antonio.
 
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