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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
"Where y'all been? If you don't attend, whether you are local or not to the meeting, then it is all speculation and heresay on your part and you have no one to blame but yourself."

Oh really? If the meetings are so "open" then why is the date and location of the BOD meeting not listed on the ISSCA webpage?

Discussion Starter · #42 ·
The motion to expel member cam during the part of the agenda called...." c. additional bussiness brought before the board" Fully approved agenda actually.

But I do say again that there will be an official statement quite soon I'm sure.

It wasn't done in secret. Far from it. We know that the meetings are open to the public and that the public would know about the results of the meeting.

I don't know why Mr. Spera wasn't there. Conference call was made available to all who wanted it.

Off topic a bit: Membership rolls being public...I don't know about that being a good idea or not. It may be that it keeps advertisers away from the member name lists.

Karl Ellwein

Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Carla, there is mention of national drag racing champion in the drag racing rules. It is something that I think we want to do.
Let me go find it.....Paste from ISSCA SOP Chapter 8 article XI Sec. 2.
Future National Championship
Any ISSCA member who has received at least 50 points in local club ISSCA drag racing events
for that year is automatically invited to participate in a National Champion Runoff. The Class
Winners of the National Champion Runoff will be declared the ISSCA Drag Racing Champions for
that year. It is the intent of ISSCA to conduct a National Champion Runoff at some time in the
future when a good number of racing events are established so that most of the members have
the chance to be a national champion. Currently there are well established ISSCA drag racing
events in the north east states within the East Coast Impala Racing Series and in Texas with
Impalafest. More events are needed in other areas of the nation so that racers have a chance to
attend at least 2 events to gather points. Unquote.

Let's get some events going gang!!! (how about the MWIRS?).

Karl Ellwein

Discussion Starter · #45 ·
FACT: You were not there and have not been there, therefore you really don't know the FACTS - now do you?

FACT: Your statements are based on what you have heard/have read/have been told by others over the past week or so.

A couple active Board Members have now responded with a 'stand-by'. If one can not live with this then there is not much that can be done about it. We've politely asked all to hang in there. What more can we do at this point?

I ask that this fire not be fanned any further as it accomplishes nothing but hate and discontent and there is enough of that in this thread already. No matter what, some members will continue to be upset over this regardless of what the facts are. There is nothing anyone of us can do about that.

Each member has a choice. There are those that will make their own decision based on the facts WHEN THEY ARE PRESENTED, and others that will decide based on what and how their friends feel. Okay.

If you have something new to offer then offer it. Otherwise.....choose. BTW: you are dead wrong on a couple of your "FACTS" but there is no way any one of us will convince you otherwise.

Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Well I for one and I'm sure I'm not the only one will NOT be renewing my membership and Sine I just paid my membership I don't suppose that I can get my money back because if this is the way the BoD is going to act then I want nothing to do with ISSCA. Besides the club has been slipping anyway.

Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Well, I'm not to the point of asking for a refund yet, but it doesn't sit well with me that ISSCA isn't being forthright with the BOD minutes. Every passing day implies that what's not being told, is worse than it was the day before. As metioned by someone earlier, if everything was carried out by the book, which I can only assume it was, then there would be nothing to hide.

I'm giving ISSCA the benefit of the doubt for now, but this stinks like a fart in a car with the A/C on!

Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Why must the dirty laundry be aired in public? I too ask, what will it change? What will it accomplish?
Neither the board nor Mr spera have issued any kind of a 'public' statement of explanation.
Directors are a diverse group bonded together by a common goal to guide Issca into the future. A diverse group of men will always have conflicting idea's on how to achieve a common goal.
How many on this list have gone through a divorce? After all the dirt and reasons for divorcing are done with sometimes there is this aftermath of hurt feelings, and common thought from both sides wishing they had not gone through
all the dirt. Well, the divorce in this case has already happened, Now there is talk of avoiding a legal battle? I would hope that both sides would have respect for the membership, and the membership in turn would have respect for issca and its directors, Imagine what the b-body world would be like without issca,
I would like to see an amicable settlement to this problem, a settlement endorsed by both Mr Spera and the BOD, without all the conflicting points of views and opinions of the membership at large, then a joint statement saving the national club from a mud slinging match. I don't think personally that this discussion should be conducted on the Internet in a free and open manner for all and sundry to participate in. It would be better served on a mailing list to dues paying members, who could voice their concerns to their director.
It takes two to tango and i don't want to support either side separately but i will support both sides in a united decision.
issca #309

Discussion Starter · #49 ·
To Karl - Well given that I don't know how to drive straight
, my apologies for not noticing that it was still there. The National Champion information used to be contained in the Bylaws. I believe that I am correct when I state that the National Racing Championships (Drag, Road Course and Auto Cross) have not been awarded with any consistency. I know that for 2003 & 2004, I spent a lot of time auto crossing with the intention of competing for the National Stock Champion. All of the sudden this was gone. Grant it, I don't regret the time spent as I had a blast, but it was disappointing to work that hard and then find that the "prize" was no longer there.

I want to make one thing clear from my point of view regarding this entire thread. I am not defending whether Chuck should or should not be serving on the Board of Directors. As I said earlier, there is no love lost between Chuck and I and we have "butted heads" on many an occasion and over many a topic. When I served on the Board with him, there were many online chats when I was screaming at the computer monitor because he could be very infuriating. All that being said, I am having a real issue with why he wasn't simply removed from the board by a 3/4-majority vote. It seems very "back door" to remove him from the membership completely.

Also, there have been earlier comments about micro managing. I think that when the Board exercises their right to throw a member out of the club in its' entirety and given that this action has never occurred before, we the members have a right to know what was so offensive to get a person removed. How do we know that we aren't doing something offensive as well and might be in jeopardy of being thrown out?

Doug, I appreciate your call for patience on this matter, but no one from the Executive Committee being Harvey, Bill, Dodie or Terry are responding to the membership’s questions. Also, I recognize that this happened only a week ago, but if Chuck's actions were so egregious that it merited total dismissal from the organization, then how long can it take to prepare a statement. I mean really, I have prepared several compelling posts here in under a few hours. If the case is open and closed, then preparing a statement shouldn't be that difficult.

Furthermore, if the Board is so concerned about legal repercussions, then why didn’t the Board fulfill their fiduciary responsibility to the organization and hire an attorney to represent them during the proceedings? I recognize that this not an inexpensive proposition, but if this action now jeopardizes the entire organization it could have been money well spent.

Doug, I wish I could sit and wait, but I have seen nothing reassuring from the Executive Committee that would encourage me to do so. So, I must continue to ask questions.

I recently attended a great seminar on successful teams and the speaker said that the first thing is that all members of the team must be committed to cause (or organization) beyond themselves. Is our Board of Directors acting for a cause greater than them or simply fulfilling personal agendas? Just thinking out loud.

Discussion Starter · #50 ·
I am surprised to see Chuck Spera removed from the BOD, although as I think about it, I can’t say I am saddened, and in fact ISSCA just moved up a notch in my book. Let me explain….. A few years ago, when ISSCA was just getting organized, I wanted to become very involve with ISSCA and was working to set up an event here in California to support ISSCA. I went through much leg work, including getting a race track lined up as a location for the event and working with the Southern California folks (I am in Northern California), I even had a trophy girl lined up! :D I wanted the event to be an ISSCA event and set it up that way from the start. I contacted ISSCA to find out how to best proceed and to see if they were interested in this event. Chuck Spera was my ISSCA contact person. Chuck instructed me that I needed to structure the event so ISSCA could make it “transportable” to other locations throughout the country, what that meant and all sorts of details as he helped me develop a vision of the event...yadda, yadda, yadda...... I guess the details are not important forward.....Eventually, I had a phone discussion with Chuck and he informed me that ISSCA had decided that they were not in the position to supporting a “new” event, including mine. I regrouped and gave Chuck one more call to see if there would be a way that I could pull off the vision of my event with ISSCA being a part. Chuck informed me that ISSCA had no intention of supporting a new event but would consider teaming and supporting an existing established event (which wasn’t mine). This took the wind out of my sails and proved to be the end of my event. I was disappointed but not upset. On a side note, I ended up quenching my racing/event planning thirst by volunteered and became part of a (non b-body) racing club.

If you are still reading this, you are probably thinking “what the hell is this guys point”? Well, when I was faced with the fact that I could not get ISSCA support for my b-body event, and didn’t want to get in the position of competing with ISSCA and didn’t feel I could successfully pull off the event without ISSCA support, I eventually sent an email to the people I was working with on the event to let them know that I was officially scrapping the idea and offered it for others to pioneer. One of the people whom I sent the email was another ISSCA member (not Chuck). That day I got emails from several ISSCA BOD members and others in a frenzy wanting to know why I was scrapping my idea with most of them never seemingly have heard of my event. This included Chuck who (in front of his fellow BOD members and president) stated that he had never heard of my idea and would be glad to talk with me about it. WTF! I had been working directly with Chuck on my event, with him eventually telling me ISSCA was not interested in participating and now he says he never heard of my event!? I felt as thought I had just been part of a politically dysfunctional board and really didn’t know which ISSCA organizers were at fault. But, it was clear that the ISSCA managing organization was not something I “fit” into.

All of this left a bad taste in my mouth and I have kept a low ISSCA profile sense (just enjoying the benefits of being a member). I guess my post has ended up being a bitch fest on my part instead of something constructive.
I guess this post just brought back my story for me and made me think that even if a guy is great/nice there could be reasons for him to not be a functional board member.

It is important to remember that there can be good reasons for a BOD to remove one of their own even if they are nice people and have done goods things elsewhere.

It sounds like Doug Wood has the correct view of this situation.


Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Mike -

I couldn't agree with you more that the BoD can remove one of their own from the Board even if the person is a nice person. The problem here is that the BoD didn't simply remove Chuck from the Board, they ousted him from the club in its' entirety. I can only assume that they couldn't gain the 3/4-majority vote required to remove him from the board so they opted to expel him from the club, which then in fact removes him from the Board.

There in lies the crux of my concern that it wasn't enough to throw him off the board, but they threw him out of the club.

Still waiting to hear from the Executive Board.

Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Wow! I can't remember seeing this many low forum member numbers on a thread in a long time.

I think that Rob and Lance and a few other people need to understand Doug and Karl are not in a position to make any kind of official statement on behalf of ISSCA. They are just trying to play peace maker until ISSCA makes a statement. Please don't crucify them.

I have a few things I wanted to add, that hopefully going forward will be addressed.

1. The ISSCA website sadly needs a major updating and also a commitment from a person to keep it up to date after each meeting. Sounds easy but someone has to actually do it.

2. Updates from our ISSCA Director are not in high volume. Even if it's just an email giving us an update saying "nothing is going on" that would be fine. Just keep us in the loop. And Doug, we DO ask, we just don't get much back. If ISSCA could keep the website up to date with minutes, etc, that would help.

3. I don't think I have any idea about when the ISSCA meetings are and how to dial in. That info should be easy to find. If it's somewhere and I missed it, then it should be easier to find or generated in more than one place. Like on the forum.

I agree with all statements above, that all these people who are suddenly coming forward with 'issues', where have they been? Well, that's just human nature, people are generally apathetic until an issue hits close to home, then they rally like you wouldn't believe.

I also understand what Phantom is saying, why make both parties look bad? The damage is done. I agree. But this is a little different, because Chuck's supporters started this thread, they opened up the issue in public while ISSCA sent a private letter to Chuck.

If that happened to me, I would have tried to contact Harvey or Bill first and ask what happened before I went public. Maybe Chuck did, maybe he didn't, but the person who started this thread decided to air this publicly. Otherwise a lot of us may not have found out at all.

I think the one thing that comes out of this is that ISSCA needs to communicate a little better with the members, and make it easier to see what's going on. But again, see above, a lot of people wouldn't get involved until an issues affected them directly. Me included, I am just too wrapped up in the other things in my life to stay on top of ISSCA as much as I would like.

ISSCA #1047

Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Bill -

I think you suggestions are excellent. You know it would have been appropriate on such a sensitive matter for the paid ISSCA members to receive an e-mail or letter from our Region Directors explaining what happened. Unfortunately, one of our region directors claims that he doesn't know how to contact anyone from the GRAIL group., I guess that's why I haven't heard from anyone.

Still waiting to hear the truth.

Discussion Starter · #54 ·
I hope I didn't give this impression, if I did then, Doug, Karl, I apologize.
"I think that Rob and Lance and a few other people need to understand Doug and Karl are not in a position to make any kind of official statement on behalf of ISSCA. They are just trying to play peace maker until ISSCA makes a statement. Please don't crucify them. "

Carla, Bill, are you sure you don't have time to be on the board?? More sense is coming from you two than anywhere else.

Still waiting....

Discussion Starter · #55 ·
ISSCA directors, time is passing and still no FACTS, which is all that is being asked for. I do not see anyone (members) accusing the BoD of anything at this moment. People want information about a BoD action and none is been given, which is casting doubt on the legitimacy of the action. I do see directors not responding to the questions being asked and sidetracking the issue at hand with by-laws and bs. This is not an attack on the directors that have spoken here but you are giving the membership the runaround on this.

Once more, JUST THE FACTS, please.

You do NOT have to a Chuck Spera supporter to have a hand in starting/continuing this thread. Think about what is right/wrong here, an ISSCA member and Director, was expelled and NO ONE will say what the reasons were. When you (a general "you", no names in particular) are expelled and no reason given, wouldn't you want someone to ask why???

Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Back up the BeaSSt!

The 'legal' comment was mine and mine alone. I stated it as it was about the only thing I could think of that would cause a delay in an official response to this.

I have no insight, am not speaking for anyone other than myself - it's pure speculation (NOT FACT) on my part. Most likely I'm out in left field on this.

Again: The reference to legal action was ONLY a guess. I can think of nothing else that would cause a delay from the Executive Committee - and for everyones sake I pray I'm wrong.

The red flag and bullseye is on my back on this one. I have no idea as to what is going on; just trying to provide suggestions and input as has everyone else. I'm as in the dark on this one as you are.

Now I can go back and read the posts of the last hour. My apologies to anyone that has taken this ball and run with it. To do so is at your own risk. And you are welcome to kick my butt at any time for it.

Doug Wood
ISSCA Member 123
Co-Director Region 9 for about another month

Discussion Starter · #57 ·
"I agree with all statements above, that all these people who are suddenly coming forward with 'issues', where have they been?"

My first post on this thread touches on this a bit. I'm actually amazed that this many people have chimed in.

"I think that Rob and Lance and a few other people need to understand Doug and Karl are not in a position to make any kind of official statement on behalf of ISSCA. They are just trying to play peace maker until ISSCA makes a statement. Please don't crucify them. "

Understood. No plans of putting anyone on a cross. Besides, the ground is frozen here! Most of my replies are simply playing devil's advocate, and illustrating the poor communications problem that exists in ISSCA.

EDIT: Like I have said in the past regarding the magazine and membership, if this kind of stuff--BOD minutes, were made promtly availible to the members, and perhaps let members, like those of us on the forum, know when, and where the meetings were, and so on, there might be more interest to participate in different parts of the club. Right now, I feel in the dark regarding ISSCA. I don't know when any meetings are, a ballot shows up in the mail with one name on it, and God willing, I see 6 magazines a month. I'm not saying it's ISSCA's responsibility to brief me on every step they take, but none of this is on the ISSCA website. If it's in the magazine, well, that's another thread...

Discussion Starter · #58 ·
Rob -

Thank you for your kind words. I did an almost 2 year stint on the BoD. I was the Secretary and Event Coordinator for Tulsa. Unfortunately, due to some problems that I encountered with a member of the Board during the production of the Tulsa event, I felt that I needed to resign my position on the Board.

At this time, I have been elected as Secretary for the St. Louis Region SCCA Chapter. I think for me that this is the highest and best use of my time. I am not sure that I could be a productive member of the ISSCA Board as I am still hurt by the events that happened at Tulsa and subsequent comments that I hear about the Tulsa event through the "grapevine".

Discussion Starter · #59 ·
The ISSCA website is under new ownership and under construction.

Yes, the BoD without doubt needs to communicate better and more expeditiously to its members.

Yes, the website should contain the information stated above.

The SScene is doing the best it can. Chris N has been doing a fantastic job and I applaud him for his efforts. But it takes more than Chris to make a magazine. He must receive cooperation from everyone involved, and from the info I've garnered some of the blame falls on the print shop. Another is a need for articles. Club news, member write-ups, specific task write-ups (i.e, oil accumulator article, AN hoses, seat sliders, electric water pump convertion, 6-speed install, push/pull clutch differences & pros/cons...get the idea?). Good articles and pictures won't be turned away. It's just that Chris can't do it all himself as he too has a real job and life. Yes, we can do better.

Okay, so much for the excuses. Sure everybody wants something for their money, but it is a two way street. Without the community, there is no magazine. The B-body world is a world of its own. We make it what it is.

On a very personal note: I love this club, I love the car, I love the community and especially its people. When I retire after young son graduates from high school in a couple more years I intend to devote a majority of my life to ISSCA - and I've made this statement to more than a few in the past - provide there is still a club to play with.

The truth will be known. Appears some of it is just now starting to surface. I hope everyone will accept the truth no matter how painful it is to accept as it is most often a very bitter pill to swallow.


Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Will someone just spill the beans!!!!

Yep! Carla ruled planning Tulsa, Too bad that she didn't get the time to enjoy much of it herself as she deserved...yes there were plenty of people that took the time to make this function go as planned I'm not forgetting them either....

still waiting to hear from the upper party!!!

Also still waiting to renew my dues...tick,tick tick
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