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How do you get the crankshaft hub back to top dead center?

5035 Views 158 Replies 13 Participants Last post by  BALLSS
The crankshaft seal is leaking oil. I was using a puller today to try to remove the hub sleeve after removing the balancer pulley. When cranking on the center puller extractor bolt the hub moved to the right to about the one 0'clock position from the 12:00 position. The Hayne's manual says not to allow the hub to move from at all once the balancer pulley has been removed. But that's exactly what happened! When I tried to turn the hub back to the 12:00 position by cranking on one of the ring gear bolts it would not budge to go backwards and get the hub back to tdc. Is this because the car tranny is in the park position? If I put the car in neutral would that allow the hub to rotate back to the 12:00 position? How critical is it to keep the hub from turning when attempting to remove the hub sleeve? Will it mess up the timing if moved? Thanks for any tips you can send my way. The hub sleeve is really on there and hard to remove.
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Lets start with hub not coming off.
The puller you need is not a " normal" one because the hole in the hub is only 7/16 .
The " normal" puller has a tapered cone to push on the crank.
You need either 7/16 -20 stud to screw in to push on or a 5/16 pin to bottom in the crank to push on.

It is not critical where the crank or hub sits while just changing a seal.
When you get the hub off you will see a witness mark on the end of the hub where it lined up to the keyway on the crank gear ( reluctor on 96)
This will help you put it back in the same spot it was.
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YES! Great info. I'm relieved I didn't mess anything up with the timing by allowing the hub to move. Why would the Hayne's manual instruct not to allow this to occur? It also advises to remove the distributor and water pump, which I was not about to do and left both in place for this job. I did use the "peace sign" gear puller from AZ. I went to hardware store and bought three 5/16" hex head grade 8 bolts for the puller arms and one 5/16" Allen head bolt grade 8 for the center of the hub bore. The center hub bolt was a little wobbly and it was hard to get it stay centered and steady while cranking on the big black puller bolt with the beveled tip adapter which presses against the Allen head bolt. So that's where I stopped last night and will resume today after some other chores. Is there a special trick to prevent the crankshaft and hub from turning when cranking on the puller bolt to remove the hub sleeve? The manual says to put a screw driver in the teeth of the tranny ring, which is what I tried, but I actually had to use a crow bar wedged against the pavement because a screwdriver was just not right for the proper angle and leverage. Just couldn't get a good bite or place to wedge it against.
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One note on the crank seal - it tends to wear a groove in the hub. Rock Auto and others sell a repair sleeve and tool that just slides over the hub from the rear and provides a brand new surface to seal on. Money well spent (both the sleeve and the install tool).
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Think , the deal is hub flange position to clear the opti on removal.
The hub can go on anywhere BUT there is a reference pointer on it so you can tell crank position ( give or take )with the engine assembled .
Position is important for
pan re&re in the car
Opti re&re if following GM instuctions for rotor alignment ( not really required if one understands the workings)
Being in the right postion for chain re&re .

So you can slam the hub back on anywhere and never tell the difference running wise but best to put back correctly .
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Holding crank while pulling damper,
Kinda whatever works.
My flywheel holder is spring loaded so you can hook it on.
Sometimes you can get a bar across two of the damper bolts.
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I use an old front brake caliper slider bolt as an extension for the center bolt of the puller. The slider bolt reaches to the bottom of the threaded hole in the crank and the hex in the end of the bolt helps keep the puller screw centered.
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OP

Kent Moore makes a puller/Install tool specific to the LT1. Unfortunately they are exploding wallet $ but on rare occasion you can find one on ebay for decent $. I got mine 20 years ago for $50

Otherwise a standard 3 star puller, with right size bolts in hub, will remove it but as mentioned you need the right size large center bolt to nest into the crank without FU the threads...

Its getting it back on you will need to "improvise" by making the home made install tool. Get a piece, maybe about 9-10" long of all-thread size of crank threads, thrust bearing and 3-4 large grade 8 fender washers and a nut for the center all-thread. Screw the all-thread into crank all the way, place hub on end of crank, then fender washer (2) then thrust bearing then 2 more fender washers then nut to then "draw" the hub back on

NEVER use the crank hub center bolt to try and pull hub back on or you will strip crank threads.

There is likely a video or search this forum for a how to making/using the home made install tool

IMHO I would buy a new "keyed" hub for the stock damper or just buy a new damper with keyed hub. If your current damper is original, its trash

Regarding an original hub, it does not matter what direction its put back on but the one "pointed" spoke will not be on the way it was stock but will not affect the timing otherwise
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95wagon, that's quite the tool for the ring gear! Custom made?
BallSS, you lost me there with "9-10" long of all-thread size of crank threads". What is this thing. Can I get it at a hardware store?
Sherlock9c1, I ordered the Fel Pro install tool and a hub sleeve just in case the surfaces are messed up.
Is Permatex Ultra Black Gasket maker ok to use on the outer edge of the new seal?
That is an internet search as I was too lazy to walk down stairs.
The photo is IDENTICAL to my old SnapOn in my box.
The new ones are black and have a plastic handle , for the new "sensitive " mechanics.
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OP, if your hub is scored because of seal wear, just get a new one vs using a speedy sleeve band aide. Ideally one that is keyed

If your damper is original its done. look at the rubber it is likely shrunk and cracked.

all thread is threaded rod. It typically comes in 2'-3' length so you would need to cut it down the length needed for the home-made tool. There must be a thread showing this, I have the proper tool so I have not done it on my Impala with the home-made version however I have made one for a Ford I used to have.

Home depot and other hardware stores carry it along with grade 8 fender washers and a thrust bearing and nut.

Do not beat the hub on with a hammer or try and pull it on using hub center bolt.

Those FlaxPlate/flywheel wrenches like Wagon shows are available at Harbor Freight although nowhere near the quality of a SnapOn one but a cheap one will work.

Not sure how you managed to turn damper hub pulling it off but yeah you would want to use some form of stop to keep engine from rotating.

I assume you verified the crank seal is actually leaking as they generally don't. Typically, the WP drive seal is the culprit, but oil migrates to the lowest point making it "look" like front seal leak. You would need to remove WP & Opti and damper only to replace the WP drive seal. You need to use some form of tool like a Sharpie pen cap to install a new one but a tool is needed and available on ebay for around $20.
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Thanks guys. I got the hub off and the old original seal out today. They actually don't look too bad, not scored or cracked. I'm hoping this seal is the culprit. I had a mechanic replace the opti recently and I'm not sure if he replaced the shaft seal too, or did it incorrectly without the special tool. I want to rule out the harmonic balancer seal before I have to remove the opti and water pump (again). i'm going do a search for that home-made install tool you advise. I would like to see how to make it.
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Ok, I found one I think I can "borrow" from AZ. I like that there are several adapters for it and that it's available at my local store so I can get this done tomorrow.

Won't work.
You need more length of 7/16-20
Couldn't this thing be installed the same way I install them on MACK and NAVISTAR engines? Heat it up a little in an oven and then slide it right on.

Last I knew a leaking seal at the crank snout has been a very common problem on small block chevy engines for many decades. Speedy sleeves work but they suck because they are thin and cheap plus you are making the seal area larger while the seal remains the same size. In the diesel world we use special seals that come with a hardened wear ring when the sealing area is worn. Many engines use them straight from the factory to keep the crank from becoming worn. Thankfully the worn area on this engine is easily replaced.
Here's a good video which demonstrates what you guys are describing (I think).
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Here's a good video which demonstrates what you guys are describing (I think).
That is EXACTLY what they are describing.
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Yeah thats basically it. You can just jam 2 nuts together on top vs welding 1.

The socket part would work or just use fender washers on the other side where it is against the hub. Essentially you are using a piece of All Thread screwed into crank and the thrust bearing/washer combo against the lower nut to "press" damper on

You can push damper on by hand or with a small tap of mallet to initially hold it in place then assemble your tool and draw it on with that

I assume your motor is still installed so just measure how long the all thread needs to be but you need to clear the radiator fans so don't make it to long
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Here are the parts I used to assemble my installation tool. These were ordered from McMaster-Carr. The threaded rod and nuts are grade 8 equivalent to reduce the chance of stripping the rod.
The thrust bearing reduces the force needed to turn nut. I had the bushing driver on hand, You will need something like the socket in the video. The last picture is me shaking the camera.
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