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Unless the photo is deciding ( not exactly in focus ) the input is junk.

Question is why .
This is normally and indication of an engine trans misalignment issue .
Are both block dowels in place ?
Are both trans the bell housing dowels in place.
Is there any thing jammed between the bell housing and the block ?
trand wasnt out of a wreck was it?
No welding on bell housing ?

Was the car driven with trans or bell housing bolts loose.

Something very bad is going on
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
Unless the photo is deciding ( not exactly in focus ) the input is junk.

Question is why .
This is normally and indication of an engine trans misalignment issue .
Are both block dowels in place ?
Are both trans the bell housing dowels in place.
Is there any thing jammed between the bell housing and the block ?
trand wasnt out of a wreck was it?
No welding on bell housing ?

Was the car driven with trans or bell housing bolts loose.

Something very bad is going on
So the part I really messed up on was not understanding the initial state of the input shaft when I had bought it, to which I feel like the shop should have made it a case when they were rebuilding reverse. They told me it was worn out but said it wasn't a big deal so I trusted them on it.

This pic below was before it was rebuilt, as you can see it was bad before it was in my car. I just didn't know since almost everything in the manual swap project was a first time so it was an information overload. Didn't even understand half the components involved but in hindsight I should have took a lot more pics and showed it to others to get their opinion and that may have saved all this trouble.


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So the steps I'm taking this time are to 100% verify:
dial indicate the bellhousing make sure it is within spec - reference video
Trans rebuild -
+
Setting the endplay and clearances - Still just youtubing and finding good references on that, only worry here is that the shim kits are all out of stock but guess I'll tackle that when I get there.

Just does not make sense for me to go to a shop again so I will do what it takes to make it happen.
 

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Checking a factory T56 housing is a bit more involved as you not have a machined register.
You end up having to make up a pin that comes right up the center of the trans front cover and reada the front bearing bore.
 

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The fact it was like that before might be a good thing.
Old car might have had a pilot bearing failure.
Or trans bolts were loose, cocking input.
 

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I'm gonna carry the Doug Woods banner into here and just say my favorite T56 upgrade so far was a push clutch with a remote bleeder...

Also don't know if this will be helpful but during rebuild of my GTOs T56 I built a rack of dowels that held all the rings and syncros as I pulled them off their various shafts. Also I wouldn't attempt a rebuild without a press and a some very good bearing/plate splitters. I still ended up having to replace a 5/6 gearset cause my cheap puller ripped some teeth chunks off.

-Brian
 
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Discussion Starter · #66 · (Edited)
I'm gonna carry the Doug Woods banner into here and just say my favorite T56 upgrade so far was a push clutch with a remote bleeder...

Also don't know if this will be helpful but during rebuild of my GTOs T56 I built a rack of dowels that held all the rings and syncros as I pulled them off their various shafts. Also I wouldn't attempt a rebuild without a press and a some very good bearing/plate splitters. I still ended up having to replace a 5/6 gearset cause my cheap puller ripped some teeth chunks off.

-Brian
I just got a pre-bled unit, when you say push you mean the full push conversion instead of the stock pull style clutch hydraulics? I'm all for that but budget right now just wants me to get the car up and running and deal with that later since I already went wayyy over going to a shop to get reverse addressed.

And yea I will have to get a press and bearing pullers for the job, and some good snap ring pliers. Aslong as I'm not dumb about it I think I should be fine, main difference this time and the first time I did the swap is not rushing it, if I don't have the right tool I will get the right tool and not force it lol. Problem with most things for me is I have to do it wrong once to do it right the second time, and that gets expensiveeeeeee.

Just hope when I take it apart I don't see bad gears/synchro sleeves or that's gonna jack up the rebuild cost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
Ok so I guess the main issue with my rebuild is, how do I determine what is bad and if it is bad what the cause of it is, is there some visual guide I can find online. For gears, synchros and synchro sliders it seems pretty straight forward, but in terms of bearings, shims or other items not as obvious there is no way for me to know what is going on other than posting pictures online.


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Some of the bolts to the tailshaft housing have this circle thing going around it, need to look up what that is.

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One of the blocks on the speedometer rotor is grinded down a bit, not sure if that's an issue or a sign of any problems to come.

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Reverse gear (the brand new one) I see scoring on the inner edges, is this going to lead into a failure? what does that mean? I never accidently shifted into reverse.

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As for the rest, I see scoring on the bearings and the edge of the counter shaft gear is grinded down a bit, still not sure if that is normal or bad.
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Tapered Race, Countershaft Extension Bearing - 130 on the tremec manual
Anything odd about this? Reverse idler gear edges grinded down a bit and from what it looks like scoring on the race.



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Race, Mainshaft Bearing - 85 on the tremec manual
Output shaft seal - 99 on the tremec manual


I see scoring on the bearing.
 

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The nicks and burs shown some are manufacturing some are careless handling.
All I see so far are things that you would just dress up with a small hand stone.
The small shaft, think you will find that is a machined relief as it just needs support on the end.
The bearings aren't " new" any more but dirt scratches and the like are not grounds for immediate dismissal .
If you can catch a finger nail , then they need to go. Problem with caged bearings is you often cant inspect the inner race without destroying the bearing.
When in doubt,,,,,,,,

You really should be checking input-output , counter , counter extension end clearances be fore disassembly.

While there are people here welling to help.
Getting the full picture and giving advice over the internet is dicey at best.
Assumptions get made, things overlooked.
 

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Discussion Starter · #72 · (Edited)
The nicks and burs shown some are manufacturing some are careless handling.
All I see so far are things that you would just dress up with a small hand stone.
The small shaft, think you will find that is a machined relief as it just needs support on the end.
The bearings aren't " new" any more but dirt scratches and the like are not grounds for immediate dismissal .
If you can catch a finger nail , then they need to go. Problem with caged bearings is you often cant inspect the inner race without destroying the bearing.
When in doubt,,,,,,,,

You really should be checking input-output , counter , counter extension end clearances be fore disassembly.

While there are people here welling to help.
Getting the full picture and giving advice over the internet is dicey at best.
Assumptions get made, things overlooked.
I see, I was thinking about that but guess I will get the clearances first before taking it apart, just need to throw the housing back on haven't taking anything else off yet. Just gotta figure out that nifty device to find the clearances for the counter shaft & cs extension play.

The more videos and threads I read the more everything is starting to make sense so there's that
 

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Without reading back, in case you dont have.


Clearance vs preload
Do your home work, read multiple cars t56 specs ,peoples builds.

Case in point
Old t56 literature input and mainshaft 000 to .002 CLEARANCE .
2012 Camaro TR6060 ( Same input- main configuration ) 000 to .002 PRELOAD

Cliffs notes , I don't care what official literature says, there is no way I am putting a 2 foot long steel shaft with tapering roller bearings in an aluminum housing with no preload or worse , clearance.
When the trans heats up it grows , more than the steel shafts.
Zero clearance turns into clearance , clearance turns into MORE clearance.
Clearance with tapered rollers, the shafts can move away from each other , throwing the gear mesh out the window.

Ever hear guys talk the t56 sounding like a box of rocks hot ? Clearance !!
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 · (Edited)
You mind reposting that link, it's broken.

Interestingly enough I found an article from 2006 on a t56 rebuild for a 96 impala that says the same exact thing.

In all likelihood, the damage was caused by separation between the input shaft and countershaft under load in the first three gears, which was probably the result of insufficient pre-load on the input shaft and mainshaft assembly. We'll correct that the next time around.

With the countershaft now preloaded, we turn our attention to the mainshaft/input shaft stack. Tremec's specs call for an endplay of 0.000-0.002", but we went the other way and selected a shim to obtain 0.002" of preload. This is done with the shimmed countershaft in place, as leaving it out while setting the mainshaft endplay will cause incorrect readings.


 

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Fixed it.
Yeah, Eric was changing to the one piece counter at the time if I recall correctly.
My T56 is already that type.
I would looking and measuring the counters effect on inputs number before commenting on its effect.
As you can appreciate yoy need to measure clearance and calculate preload.
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
Well figured out my 5-6th gear whine....


Question is, do I get the mainshaft repaired, buy a new one or do I look into a viper main shaft, since I didn't spec out my driveshaft yet might be a good time however I'm not sure if anything else needs to be upgraded for the viper main shaft.
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
Not sure what you are seeing.
The rear cluster is unsupported with the tail housing off

My hand is able to move the 5-6th cluster without the shaft moving with it, seems like a high amount of play for something that should be pressed on no? Plus I was able to take the 5-6th cluster off by hand without any resistance.
 

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Did I miss the part where you said it whined in 5-6 ?

" Funny" story, a friend brought me a t56 for that same reported issue.
I never heard it myself
I replaced 5th gear due to syncro teeth damage.
Preloaded the gearsets as tight as I dared.
He gets it back, couple weeks later he says it still does it hot on the highway.
Hour long road test later,,,,,,, ah ,,,, yeah,,,,, that's your diff !
 
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