[ProTools4]

LT1 OBD1 computer max rev 7150
LT1 OBD2 computer max rev 7150

Past 7150 the LT PCM sees the optispark input as half and reads 3600ish rpm at 7200RPM
It is a max resolution frequency problem when shooting for the moon
this does not effect stock cars that shift around an underwhelming 5200RPM

 

[popo8]

My camaro was a stroked and boosted lt1. Lots of good parts. P1sc was maxed out at 10 lbs of boost through afr 227s and a custom cam. To the wheels it made 602, so crank hp wouldve been just shy of 800 if u figure 25% loss. Never had it on an engine only dyno.

Now that my camaro has been totalled, I bought her back and plan on putting the heart into the impala with a larger blower.
We will be doing that swap this winter...

Anyways... 385ci, and boost... but its not cheap to build.

LTX tech.com is my drug

 

[popo8]

Oh... and btw... I daily drove the camaro with exception of winter time. No breakage, very reliable, includimg a 1400 mile round trip to KY and annual 200 mile trips to OCMD.

LTX tech.com is my drug

 

[popo8]

Oh yeah... and they are right... my motor alone had about 20k in it.

LTX tech.com is my drug

 

[rodney]

So since I have similar questions I should present what I have now and where I want to be...

I have a '94 9C1. Currently sitting with interior pulled and broken transmission. (Will move in 2nd gear only)
Rear end is a 10" rear end with upgraded Posi (Not the factory one, don't recall the brand) 3.73 gears and 23 spline Mosher axles. Ford outer bearings... Was rated to take 800 hp.

Aluminum Drive shaft. Was used due to installation of extended lower arms.

Currently running much larger solid sway bars and upgraded rear arms uppers and lowers.

Lowered variable rate springs.

Have made use of some other upgraded components such as brake bolt mod (both bolts) and front arms from Bill Harper.

Currently the engine is stock and before the trans blew I was pulling 13.5 1/4 times and getting 18mpg. Top speed I ever ran was 140 mph but still had another 1000 RPM to redline.

I want to build a beast of a car that gets as much power as possible while being street drivable and as durable as possible. I mentioned the CTS-V as a target for this engine but wouldn't mind going further.

Yes I expect this to be expensive...
When I retire and start my second career I will be pulling between $150k - $200k a year so I am not concerned with it. This is a car I have emotional attachment to and will be for summer enjoyment only. I also hope to do some course racing with it and some drag strip runs. If I do this I certainly will be making it show quality as well. I will be doing most of the mechanical labor myself other than rebuilding of components, body work or paint work. I expect to be a proficient welder by the time I retire so I will box my frame and strengthen it myself while adding the things they expect on a sub 10 second car. Such as roll cage.

While I certainly can do a lot of the work myself I MAY farm out some of the labor to people that do this sort of stuff all the time...

My expectation as I mentioned already is to go with a Magnuson style SC and a built engine to match. I am comparing this to a $15k quote I got for a similar LSX 6.0 engine setup for my Truck. For which I should be expecting 700-800hp. (And a bunch of driveline upgrades to match..)

I will likely end up with 4 vehicles in my possession.
Built 1994 Caprice 9c1. Built to be a sleeper but no holds bared... (summer time weekend fun)
Build '03 Avalanche for off road usage. Beast off road in the sand, mud, whatever. (summer time weekend fun)

The other two will likely be (May renew these vehicles to keep them 2-5 years old to reduce maintenance costs.)
CTS-V - kept stock but will be my main summer time daily driver.
CTS-4 or other AWD vehicle - Might boost up a little power... Intended for winter / bad weather driving.

So I will be used to handling the power...

So looking at the 9C1 I need to look at how to obtain it... The 9C1 will be my first vehicle to upgrade fully. I MAY work on the truck as well but doesn't need nearly the work the 9C1 does up front.

 

[Dan Fahey]

Making Mega Power

IF you have the bucks.
Our cars can handle a BBC.
You can get those mega sized, boosted and/or add Nitros.

Based on the conversation about power....is more about reliable consistent power.
A full Aluminum BBC block is about the same weight as an Iron LT1.

800hp out of a BBC is a more reliable solution IMHO..

d

 

[The Impala Guy]

Grasshopper, you need only read...

Go here & read: 1996 Chevy Impala SS - Unlimited Supply - Featured Vehicle - Hot Rod Network

It lays it ALL out for you, parts and all (bring $).


DONE.
.

 

[rodney]

That is an old article.
As to a BB, I did see someone at the MMM drags a few years back. He was having fueling problems. His started out as the 500cc high performance block with a blower on top. The type with the big "bug catcher".

Not sure the BB is the way I want to go but certainly worth looking into. I also don't see 1200 hp as being practical either. Want to be able to run at the drags sure but also want to be able to run road tracks and such without too much loss of traction. So I will likely stay in the 600-700 hp range. But we will see... Since a high performance BB from GM will run close to that without any modification it could be another route.

 

[The Impala Guy]

Cap't Obvious jumping in here:

Making the power is only one aspect of making 'useable' power ('getting it to the ground').

Behind the motor, the tranny, driveshaft, u-joints, posi, gears and axles have to be able to handle the increased loads.

And the suspension, trailing arms, bolts, bushings and frame need to be up to the task, including the body-mount bushings, to transfer that power (tire selection is its own topic).

And now that we have two-plus tons of fun to rocketing down the road/track.. is NOT the time to be thinking "Maybe I should have improved the brakes..?

.

 

[rodney]

For my vehicle I already had the driveline beefed up. The suspension is also beefed up. One other consideration is that if you stay in the 600-700hp range it is much easier to keep strong parts available. Once you start reaching 1000 hp you are looking at custom components and someone to fabricate stuff.

"MY" plan is to do a frame off restore and while off the frame box the frame and add additional bracing, replace all worn out components and make as good as new. I LIKELY will stay with the LT1 and have it built up and slap a Magnuson or similar blower on top. I COULD end up with an LSx swap and or a BB swap but if I can have an engine built that can handle the power and still be durable I will likely go the LT1 route simply to keep it the "same" although I would upgrade to the LSx style ignition system.

I would also add things like a roll cage and driveshaft loop and anything else required for a vehicle in the 10 second in 1/4 mile range. Brakes will be the biggest upgrade to make.

Again personally for me I am roughly 5 years out from touching my car. It will need quite a bit of work. I could buy a car that needs less work and start there but I am thinking I would be happier just fixing the car I already own. I am learning how to weld now so I should have enough practice to be able to do the welding myself by then and follow what others have done.

I do understand the issue of being able to put the power to the road and if traction becomes an issue have to consider a method to detune for use during a road type event compared to a drag strip. I won't likely tub my car but I could consider something that allows me to run wider tires in the rear to help. I am sure my car wouldn't be the first high powered B body and others have had to tackle this issue.

Rodney

 

[gbhs72]

Not being a SA. But you indicate that $ is not a problem. Why not get this to handle the HP you're wanting? Moser Engineering Ford 9" Rear End | 1977-1996 B-Body Impala Caprice
It should handle about most you could reasonably put to it.

Mark: Snowman-33

 

[rodney]

Not being a SA. But you indicate that $ is not a problem. Why not get this to handle the HP you're wanting? Moser Engineering Ford 9" Rear End | 1977-1996 B-Body Impala Caprice
It should handle about most you could reasonably put to it.

Mark: Snowman-33

At this point in time the rear end is the last thing I need. Was told this was as strong or stronger than most ford 9" and if broke this wouldn't be worth going to a ford 9" as can't build them much stronger...
Last new Bbody rear end housing in existence. He bought the last 200 rear ends GM made and I got the very last one he had.
The internals were upgraded to heavy duty versions of the next size rear end. Gm 10" if I recall? (Told me same size as in 3/4 ton pickup)
The posi is NOT the OEM version but again can't recall the brand. (Probably Eaton if that's not the OEM version.)
33 Spline Moser axles (Standard is 30 spline. The rear end tubes were bent in my car due to being a MSP 9C1. The 30 spline axle would have fit the housing but the 33 spline barely fit in a new housing so he gave me the one he was saving for his car.
Ford 3/4 ton truck outer bearings. Because of the internals being much bigger there is no room for a C clip and these are much beefier and are tapered bearings.
Also 373 gearing to go along with it...
Aluminum cover with bearing supports

Was told to expect to be able to handle over 600 hp easily. We shall see... He told me if I break this to go to a Dana rear end...

 

[FaSSt9602]

Have you ever driven an 800hp car? Have you ever driven a true 400 REAR WHEEL hp car? People get caught up in big horsepower numbers because factory cars are coming with 500, 600, and 700 FLYWHEEL hp, but you have to remember, our cars are dinosaurs compared to these. The ONLY way people aren't killing themselves in these cars is the modern torque limiting, traction control, drive by wire, etc in the new cars that makes them manageable to drive. Since money is no object, you could go with an aftermarket engine management system that incorporates these new features, but that project wouldn't be for the faint of heart...

I promise you that a well built 450hp B-body will be a handful as it is...If you really need more, a 200 shot of nitrous will take you over that edge...

As for throwing a Maggie on top of an LT1. That isn't going to happen unless you develop a kit to do so. LT1 never had the positive displacement following that the newer platforms have.

 

[95wagon]

At this point in time the rear end is the last thing I need. Was told this was as strong or stronger than most ford 9" and if broke this wouldn't be worth going to a ford 9" as can't build them much stronger...
Last new Bbody rear end housing in existence. He bought the last 200 rear ends GM made and I got the very last one he had.
The internals were upgraded to heavy duty versions of the next size rear end. Gm 10" if I recall? (Told me same size as in 3/4 ton pickup)
The posi is NOT the OEM version but again can't recall the brand. (Probably Eaton if that's not the OEM version.)
33 Spline Moser axles (Standard is 30 spline. The rear end tubes were bent in my car due to being a MSP 9C1. The 30 spline axle would have fit the housing but the 33 spline barely fit in a new housing so he gave me the one he was saving for his car.
Ford 3/4 ton truck outer bearings. Because of the internals being much bigger there is no room for a C clip and these are much beefier and are tapered bearings.
Also 373 gearing to go along with it...
Aluminum cover with bearing supports

Was told to expect to be able to handle over 600 hp easily. We shall see... He told me if I break this to go to a Dana rear end...

Well, I take issue with the statement about it being as strong as a 9"
With the corporate 8.5 you are saddled with the OD of the diff side bearings.
They are small.
Did you at least put a steel left cap on ?

If I were doing a 8.5 ( oh wait , I am ) I would start with a wagon housing due to the axle tube size.
I wonder about the 33 spline eaton posi as the ends have to be bored and you loose some strength there but people say it is OK.

I seem to remember something in the thread about cost not being an issue, why did you use Moser axles ?

Good luck with your build

 

[rodney]

My rear end is not a 8.5 GM.. The housing is but not the innards. He sacrificed the C clips in the process and we went to the 33 spline axles for more strength. But they are significantly bigger than the stock 30 spline axles and should hold much more power. If this were an engine it would be like stroking it out to a 396...

As to the SC, if a roots style blower can not be used then I will be looking at doing a LSx swap. ATK Performance engines has a 6.0 for $4k that does in the neighborhood of 500hp without doing anything to it. I already asked for a ball park quote when intending to install a Maggy on it. For THAT setup we are talking roughly $7k for the engine and another $7k for the SC. This is the setup I am looking at doing for my truck which already has a 5.3 in it now. This should be putting out over 600hp. Not planning on going as insane as one of the guys in my Avalanche group who has taken his LSx to over 7L and installed 2 Maggies on it. One for each head. He figures his truck is putting out over 1000 hp and he has a run of 10.x seconds in quarter mile with his truck. NOT planning on going that crazy...

Big block is still an option too... As I mentioned, I want something that is durable but as powerful as I can get. If Traction becomes an issue then I will need some method of dialing down the power for racing other than strip. And of course Brakes will be very important...

I should mention that I plan to spend the cash to go to a high performance driving school. Cadillac offers one that is like $3k so you can better control a CTS-V. I believe they may even give a free spot in the class if you buy one new. CTS-V's are over 600 hp and top speed of 200 mph.

 

[The Impala Guy]

I guess all of this makes me the resident dumda$$...

Tranny's built and guaranteed for 750HP/750T for life, by Lonnie,

'Drive shafts Unlimited' shaft and u-joints are good for 1500 HP,

Jeff Green's 'meanest 10-bolt', 33-spline Mosler's, C-clip eliminators, Strange spool, 3.90 rear-end, good for 1500 HP,

And I'm only putting about 375/650 to the ground.

Oh well, it leaves room to grow, 'cause we all know about that gap between enough and more...

Yeah, brakes are done, as is the motor, exhaust and programming,

But I still have the Energy Suspension body bushings in the box...

And the cut-outs (with two wiring harnesses, for selectable left/right 'added bass' when dealing with the thumpty-bump).

It's a B-Body thing, ya'll understand.
.

 

[rodney]

ya know, I was thinking the other day that someone in Detroit actually fabricated an adapter to allow a ford lightning SC to be bolted onto a modified LT1 intake. I could very well use this type of setup...

Or the guys at ZZ performance are just down the road and they play with the 6.2 with super chargers... I could find out how those work and see if there is any chance to bolt onto the LT1... or just grab one of their LT style 6.2 engines and super charger combo and drop it in... I believe those are putting out close to 800 hp...

Rodney

 

[dwascher]

I had an 05 GTO with stock LS2, only fuel system/ignition upgrade and a better set of valve springs, still with stock cam with a pair of 40mm turbos on it and it made 650rwhp with a RAM clutch and muffler delete...never a problem. Course that's about as far as you want to take a stock engine but it was a fantastic streetable car that was reliable and still got excellent fuel mileage. I plan to do an LS2 build with LSA blower on my Caprice, collecting parts now and I'd like 800hp too...I think it can be done. Stock cranks are actually good for close to 1000hp, but with upgraded rods/pistons it should last. Just got a set of L92 heads for the motor. Stock bottom ends with upgraded bearings rods/pistons should hold 850hp. Just depends if you abuse it or not.

 

[dwascher]

I had an 05 GTO with stock LS2, only fuel system/ignition upgrade and a better set of valve springs, still with stock cam with a pair of 40mm turbos on it and it made 650rwhp with a RAM clutch and muffler delete...never a problem. Course that's about as far as you want to take a stock engine but it was a fantastic streetable car that was reliable and still got excellent fuel mileage. I plan to do an LS2 build with LSA blower on my Caprice, collecting parts now and I'd like 800hp too...I think it can be done. Stock cranks are actually good for close to 1000hp, but with upgraded rods/pistons it should last. Just got a set of L92 heads for the motor. Stock bottom ends with upgraded bearings rods/pistons should hold 850hp. Just depends if you abuse it or not.

BTW, I had about 10-12k in it...just a cam swap would have gotten another 100+hp with turbos...also I didn't get too crazy with the car hooking for the very reason I didn't want to break parts...it felt faster on the street than at the track...

 

[rodney]

I still have a long ways to go until I will be able to do anything with my car but worth thinking about anyhow. When I did my rear end I basically bought into the package the guy sold me. I told him if I was going to do a rear end I might as well do it once and not worry about it. He suggested the build and that it was good to atleast 600 HP.

The most powerful vehicle I drove was a ~400 hp 86 Caprice. Was previously a police chase car. The engine was built up and a 6psi blower was installed on it. I swear my '94 caprice was similar in power. We will see how it goes when I get there. When I have the cash I will likely go to ZZ Performance and see if they can build me an adapter for the LT1 to mount the CTS-V blower on it or see what they suggest. I have a spare intake so I can drop that off and have them build it for me and be able to drive the vehicle in the mean time.

Assuming I can go with the blower I will likely have the engine rebuilt even though its stock and under 90k miles.

But will be a frame off restore so I will have some time...

Rodney