Impala SS land speed record.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by silverthorn:
Can we go anytime we want in the salt lake desert to test up our topspeed?

I always wanted to take a trip around the state and go drive my car crazy, up there in the salt..

Some impala landspeed meeting? ehehe<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't really think that the salt is the way to go here. If you look at those cars they have very thin tires and wheels. The thinking is kinda like hydro planing except you are on the salt. The other issues are their tech requirements. They are very strict unlike Silverstate.

I am all for the landspeed meeting though

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DannySS:
There's a lot of info on this forum about 1/4 mile and acceleration and what to modify for a better start of the line..., but how about some info and mods to do (engine, suspension, brakes, etc) for top speed runs. Running at high speed on the highway is what I like. Blowing by a Porsche is a lot more fun than running from light to light.
Anybody have suggestions?
Anything on the Aerodynimics of the Impala at high speeds, best suspension set-up, best mods to the steering system?
Anything?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Engine: gonna have to build the guts to withstand several minutes at WOT. That means forged crank, and $$ rods, pistons etc. Better oiling should be done, incl oil spray to the underside of the pistons to remove heat. I guess you could say that the motor needs to be built as if it were going to run a NASCAR event: WOT for a long time period.


2. Suspension. Remove the 12.7:1 fast ratio box and get one from a granny Buick. Fast ratio boxes are NOT what you want on a very high speed car. The car should be lowered to keep air from getting under the car. The tires need to be rated the same as the best Ferrari and Lamborghini. I think W is the one (168+ mph).


3. Aerodynamics. An undercar tray/trays of smooth sheetmetal should be added to smooth the air flow under the car. The car's body appears like a wing shape from the side and that means lift as speed increases. So the lift needs to be countered so that the car pushes at least a little on both front and rear as the speeds get very high. This is very serious stuff; a car that loses ground force and gets too much lift will become airborne and then the car will begin to fly, the roll, and then land on the roof. This has happened at LeMans in real racing cars, so don't think it can't happen to a very high speed Bcar. There is a lot to tweaking the body (top side and underside) to mitigate this, and I know enough to know that I'd need to learn more about it. The body appendages would also want to be shaved and smoothed (mirrors, door handles) and the front air dam would need to be VERY reinforced.


4. Brakes. The biggest that could be installed, and that probably means either Porsche type, or actual NASCAR rotors, with double calipers on the front brakes. Cold air ducts would need to be added to feed the hubs.


5. Roll cage, door reinforcements, real racing seat with real racing harness, and on board driver-fired extinguishing system.

There's a lot more that could be added, and basically if you look at what gets done to a 3400 lbs NASCAR vehicle for a high speed track like Daytona, you'd want to duplicate most of it.

The cost to do many of these mods goes directly as the increase in speed. - Ken

I may have found the answer we have been looking for! I was reading through an old magazine last night and found this link -> http://www.openroadracing.com/ It looks like a great organization for top speed freaks

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AdioSS:
...I was reading through an old magazine last night and found this link -> http://www.openroadracing.com/ ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is the Pony Express Race that was started by former Indy 500 winner Rodger Ward. That is run in Nevada and has pretty much the same tech guidlines as Silverstate. The track is also shorter and the Unlimited guys don't go quite as fast there. We (Da Racer Guys) will be running that one next

This thread is a continuation of a previous one:
http://www.impalassforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000144

And we still need an answer on Chevy's own Impala SS raced at TRC where they went 170-175 mph according to Jon Moss himself (per the videotape talk he gave at one of the Arlington factory SS events); the TRC site is a loop track (probably with 4 straights and 4 banked corners - correct me if I am wrong) and they do have official electronic timing... and since they are running a loop, the average (to nullify a tailwind) is already built-in to the test.

So the "official record", in my book FWIW, is whatever Chevy ran that day (it was 170+ mph). Item: the test was done with a 383 engine in the SS, so one might make a case for a 350 record, but then you'd have to get really anal about what mods are legit, the altitude of the test track, etc. I think USAC used to have (and may still have) rules for this type of event, and so it might be useful to apply their rules to the Bcar class and have ISSCA racing committee as the sanctioning body. It's a suggestion btw.

It might also be worthwhile to get an update from Heinz, because his car is still hands-down ahead of everyone else. And if he does sell it, will it go back to a place like TX or AZ where it can run free??? <g> FYI.

- Ken '94 9C1, returning fast animals to the wild is a good idea

Anyway....back to the original topic:

How do we go about getting some sort of sanctioning? Mods not withstanding I say get to your top speed however you see fit. The real issue here will be nerve and opportunity.

How, When, and Where?

I agree on the Balls, I'm scared out of my mind to ever approach 195 to try to beat Heinz. Even if I'm in a McLaren F1, I'd still be scared to do it. If a tire blows out at 60 there is a good chance you can control the car enough to stop safely in the breakdown lane. I mean a real blowout too, the sidewall was not there anymore when I got out of the car, it had disintegrated or vanished or something. I've had a tire blow out on me at 60, and while not easy to control, I was able to bring the car over from the third of 4 lanes to the breakdown lane and come to a complete safe and controlled stop, me and the 3 others in the car were all very glad to not be dead, we changed the tire inspected the others because we had no idea why 1 had blown (drivers side rear tire, so it hand't been rubbed on a curb while parallel parking either) and then went on our way and picked up a new tire soon thereafter. This wasn't in my 9C1, it was in the POS I drove before I had my 9C1.

If a tire blows out at 120, you're dead, if a tire blows out at 150, you're really dead and going home in a sandwich bag, and it a tire blows out at 195, not only are you really dead, but they probably won't even find enough of you for a sandwich bag.

I can't think of too many places where I could go over 120, but every street corner can be a racetrack for acceleration.

Here in the southeast, it would be pretty much useless to have a car with 200mph capability. Probably any Impala with 500+hp (of which there are quite a few) could reach the hi 170s or low 180s with proper gearing and those brass balls mentioned earlier

The big problem is a sanctioning body. It would be very costly to set up. The car mags use radar at closed tracks for their high speed runs, that could be one way to do it, maybe have ISSCA stewards as the referees. But even most of the car mags are abandoning the top end runs due to several recent driver deaths.

We would have to rent a track and pay for liability insurance and medical personnel, and we would need inspections, especially for tires. I would gladly be an observer or referee, but NO WAY would I be a participant! My brass balls don't stretch that far..........

I'd do it. 160 isn't unfamiliar territory for my car and that was before the turbo.

Just do what I do. You find one of these things that the cops set up every once in a while and have your buddy stand next to it with your camera. Walla!! Radar verified and witnessed!!


OK, this is a joke for those of you who might be internet believers.

I am having a hard time deciding between 1/4 mile and top speed as the goal to which I am working to achieve with my car. I am thinking that 1/4 mile is easier, but I really would love to throw some 2.56's in when I have HP numbers that are getting me 12's in the 1/4. You guys definately got Chahones, keep it up so I can get my speed fix hearing about the top speed stuff.

I've been thinking about the top speed prepped Bcar vs the quarter mile prepped Bcar.

Like Heinz's 193 mph run(s) on the autobahn, the Chevy 383 Impala SS running 170-175 at TRC, and 167 mph done on one of the legally sanctioned road events... as compared to the 9.4 sec @ 147 mph 572 cid '93 9C1 Caprice Nashville DARE drag racer, or the 10.7 and 10.8 WX3 cars using heavily modded small blocks.

So I spent an hour playing with CarTest to see what I could come up with. I've modeled Heinz's car before and I already know that you need 600 fwhp to run 200+ mph in a Bcar. It might be more power needed than 600 hp, but CarTest doesn't have any nonlinearity on the loss terms, so I can't be 100% sure of what the true power should be -- I can only get close.

I then modeled the Nashville 572 cid DARE car. It was very hard to use the model parameters to get it to launch as well as the rear car does, but I did get the car down to around 9.7 @ 147 mph, and that's probably close enough. The hp was around 950, and if THAT car were set up for top speed it would do 243 mph. !!!

Then I tried modeling the 10.7 and 10.8 cars of Jorge and John (sorry if I got your names wrong) and was able to get both into the high 10s @ close to 129 mph. Those cars made, if memory serves, well over 600 fwhp and would run around 210+ on a top speed run, suitably geared.

Of course the goals of the top speed cars are different than the quarter mile cars. The top speed cars need a suspension and cage that will help the driver survive if something important breaks. The cage in a drag racing car is also important for safety, but the brakes and cage only need to handle a car at around 140 mph at the end of a drag run, and the energy at 200+ mph is (200/140)^2 more, or a factor of 2. The drag car also uses a parachute (or two) to help slow down, but the top speed car usually doesn't. The drag car also has a suspension optimized to hook up for the launch, while the top speed car doesn't need that, but it does need to stay solid at speed and the aerodynamics are a lot more important in a top speed car.

Anyway, the power levels of the 10.7 and 10.8 drag racing Impalas was impressive and, at least by the simple math, slightly higher than on Heinz's car... so we are talking about cars that could in-principle top 200 mph. The Nashville car, in the meantime, with 572 cubes must be one awesome sight.

FYI. - Ken