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Discussion Starter #1
I would like to start off by commending the job HOSS has done again in hosting IMPALAFEST. IT SURE IS GOING TO BE HARD FOR ANYONE TO TOP THIS SHOW. John Moss and Jim Perskins – WOW!! I would additionally like to say that it took great initiative and lots of guts to change ISSCA Car Show Rules a little to make it a little more fair for the participants at their event. BZ to Adrian and the crew. - JOB WELL DONE!

Now to the reason I started this thread. I still heard a little grumbling going on about the ISSCA Car Show Rules after the event Saturday. Grant it, it was nowhere near the amount that was heard at I2K2 but it was still there. I would like to express how important it is to let your Region Board of Director (BOD) know what you think about YOUR car show rules especially now when we are about to start a new year. We are also currently in the process of nominating and electing another round of BODs and we should see what they think prior to nominating or electing. After all ISSCA is our organization.

Now, notify your BOD – not Larry Hall, he is not a BOD and not the man that makes or controls anyone that makes the rules, he just makes sure that the rules are adhered to and that the car shows go by them. It really ticks me off when people come up to Larry after the show and give him BS about the rules and how unfair they were (like I have done in the past, SORRY Larry) when he volunteers his time and I’m sure lots of MULA to do what he does for our organization. I do think the BODs should listen to Larry’s input and take his recommendations highly, after all he probably has more experience in car shows than any person I know and this is probably the reason that ISSCA picked him to be the National Car Show Head Judge. So BODs please listen to him.

IMHO I think that HOSS was almost perfect with the rules that were used in their event. However one thing that sort of bothers me is the fact that only one trophy was given out in certain categories. I know the rule that was followed was (There had to be at least 7 entrants to give 3 trophies, 5 for 2 and 3 for 1 which was not used). I think the 3 entrants for one trophy rule that was not followed was a great decision but I also think that some participants felt cheated that they didn’t receive anything due to them just having two are three participants in their class. Who’s to say if their were 7 they wouldn’t have gotten Second or Third. I feel that the host of the car shows have already purchased the trophies why not give them away. I feel bad when you look at the table after the awards presentation and there are still quite a few there but someone didn't get anything because there were only two or three participants in that class. There are some folks that come a very long way, spend a tremendous amount of money, and prepare very hard to compete but I feel get short changed due to the fact that their weren’t many persons in their class. That isn’t their fault!! Now I also liked the fact that HOSS posted on their program that there were not going to be any freebees and that if it looked like you didn’t even make an effort to clean or compete, even if you were the only one in your class you weren’t getting anything. This is good but lets stand behind our decision and let those people know why they didn’t receive anything.

Nough said, Please, Please, Please notify your BOD as to your opinion on the ISSCA Car Show Rules so that next year they can get a little better which is how it is suppose to work. Thanks again HOSS and all who made this great event, and for those who think I’m sore because I didn’t win anything – I took home a first place trophy!!
 
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Discussion Starter #2
I also think that HOSS did an absolutely wonderful job of puting together and executing this event. This was my 3rd year in a row to attend and I think that this was the best one yet!

I agree with BBBONE SSTOCK - The "no free rides" rule is an excellent one. The rule does imply, however, that if there are three or fewer entrants in your class and you did make an effort (cleaned and detailed your car), you would be eligible for a trophy.

One other change that I feel should be considered is in the mileage division. The current division takes place at 50K. Let's face it - there are a lot more cars out there with >50K than <50K. In fact a very large percentage of the Impala SS's (and other B and D bodies, for that matter) have over 100K on the clock. All other things being equal, can a car with >200K compete against a car with 51K?

I did speak with Larry about some of these things - not as a gripe, just as conversation. The BOD members are indeed the folks to go to with suggestions and concerns. I know from experience that they do actually listen to the members. IMHO ISSCA has been doing a great job!

Also, like BBBONE SSTOCK, this is just the opinion of an interested participant and not sour grapes. I took home a 1st place trophy, too!
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Congrats guys! What were the rest of the results?
 
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Discussion Starter #4
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tirpitz:
Congrats guys! What were the rest of the results?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Eric! I know that as far as HOTSS goes, Jim Mitchell, Scott Williams (HACK), Gary Grant (G Man), and myself took home trophies. Gary got Best of Show. :D I believe the HOSS folks should have all of the results up on their website soon.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
I think that a "Work in Progress" catagory would be a good addition. I doubt that even if I had waxed and what not on my wagon it wouldn't have recieved many points. Let's face it, a car that's halfway torn apart, covered in primer, etc isn't going to be able to compete against a complete car. Jose's wagon would be in the exact same boat as mine. Even though we've both done a TON of work to our cars I just don't think it's appreciated as much. Sure, some people have lots of bolt ons on their car, but that's just what they are... bolt-ons. Shaving your handles/rack/gate/etc takes a helluva lot more effort than bolting on some engine dress.

Now, to take into account that everyone would say their car in "perpetually in progress," I think that this catagory would need to be only for cars that are obviously in progress. (ie; primered body panels, in progress interior changes, etc.) I know there would have been at least 3 cars that would have fallen into such a catagory Saturday.

Just my two cents.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by threeimpalas:
..."Work in Progress" catagory...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not a bad idea. I don't know if it would work in the ISSCA rules but it would be a great "add on" people's choice type award (like the "most unique modification" award at Impalafest).

Your wagon is looking killer. Love the rims and the stance. I'm really glad I got to see it in person. Scrapyard's Fleetwood is looking looking really good, too. It looks downright mean!

That brings up something else... for an award like "work in progress", "most improved", or any other award that won't include every single car in the show, it would be nice if the owners of the cars "applied" for consideration in that class. That way folks would know which cars to be looking at for that catagory instead of having to weed through 200+ cars to find the 3 or 4 cars that actually qualify for the award.

Just a thought.

- Jay
 
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Discussion Starter #7
I'm with Mike and Jay on those ideas. Another thing I think that would really help judging is if cars were parked with their class. Like have all the wagons park together, 94s, 95s, 96s, and so on. It's just not really fair IMO when there are 4 cars in a class and they are parked far apart. The one parked furthest away is less likely to be voted on in "peoples' choice" no matter how good it looks.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
In a lot of car shows I have been to that had an "Under Construction" class, the car had to be more than %50 primer to qualify.

I read on another thread that Hussker was the only "under 50K 94" at the show and was not awarded anything. According to Mav, they put quite an effort into it and the car was the best it had looked in years. I think he should have got the trophy for that class. I agree that that is something that has to be fixed.

Gary Grant wins best of show. What a suprise. :D

Congrats Gary, your just lucky my brother didn't trailer Bobs pile up there. ;)
 
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Discussion Starter #9
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>...trailer...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah... there needs to be a trailer queen class too. ;)
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks Tirpitz. From the SAIL guys I think it was me, Jay Johnson, Larry Hall, Rick Matthews, Bob McLeod, and Michael Accomando that took home trophies.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I read on another thread that Hussker was the only "under 50K 94" at the show and was not awarded anything.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think he might have been mistakenly missed. I say that because on their program they said that all classes would be given an award even if just one participant, but that they had to put forth an effort and by the sounds of it Hussker did.

Yeah, I believe the 94s will be mostly affected if the 3 to make a class and 7 to give 3 awards rule stays in effect. Why, you ask? Because there are only 6 thousand and something of them and every car show that I've been to I'm lucky to see maybe 4. Poor guys would never have a class and only one of them would ever receive anything. Or they'll all get combined into one class regardless of MODS and miles. Either way they lose.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FakeSS:
All other things being equal, can a car with >200K compete against a car with 51K?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

not when you have guys like tom f. trailering his 96 with over 50k on the odo.
:rolleyes:
i fell victim to the only three in class 1st place trophy only (i2k2). i was kinda ticked off at first but then i thought about what i had done. i had spent the better part of 2 days working my ass off cleaning and polishing only to stand around while somebody else graded me. for what...so i could win a trophy?
so until they start paying cash to the winners i am retired from the show circuit and i'll just stick to the driving catagories (where i can have fun). :cool:
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Maybe a separate "Gold Class" could be added to get the "Trailer Queens" together. No year breakdowns, no milage breakdowns, no mod breakdowns. The class would look something like this:
Gary Grant
Dave Vianu
Tom Frederico
Etc...
I am sure there are other cars like that out there. This would keep the ringers from just crushing everyone in their class. KDCM96SS is right, there is no way someone that drives cross country to the show can compete with cars that are trailered in and only run when they are going onto the trailer or comming off of the trailer. No Offense to the Trailer Queens, your cars are awesome to see, but I am sure it starts to get old to some of the others to show up at a show and because of the year and milage of thier cars, they find themselves in a class they know they can't win. Just my thoughts on the subject.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
>Because there are only 6 thousand and something of them and every car show that I've been to I'm lucky to see maybe 4. Poor guys would never have a class and only one of them would ever receive anything. Or they'll all get combined into one class regardless of MODS and miles. Either way they lose.


Yeah what he said :D :D :D
 
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Discussion Starter #14
I think the car show thing is very hard to draw up in a way that everybody has a class they like... and can compete in. For example, I drag race my car a lot. Most of the mods I have on my car are to make it faster... it just so happens that I have enough mods that you can "see" to bump me into the modified class (many of them are not go-fast mods, i do have some look-good stuff too). Well... there is no way I can compete with a 96 in the mod class... there are just too many guys with great cars and much more cash invested.

I guess my point is that there is no reason for me to compete in the car show except to "show off" what I have done to my fellow SS'ers.

I had a lot of fun at Impalafest and even got 2nd place in the Heads-up NA drags on Sunday. I was dissapointed that none of the guys with stroker motors were there to run. All of the cars in the NA were 350's. I was walking around the show on Saturday looking at all the cars that I thought had a chance to beat me on Sunday... and none of them showed up!!! I got to thinking that it's kind of rude!!! what if none of us showed up at the car show where they wanted to "shine."

Anyway... I think a set of trophies needs to be set aside and issued to the top 5 cars overall... that is scored in all events offered at the event. Kind of like the "Best Overall Impala" trophy they gave in St. Louis. But it should be a class where there is more than one place given.

I just like the idea of more awards going to cars that CAN perform and fewer going to cars that LOOK LIKE they can perform.
 
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Yeah, HuSSker put alot of effert into cleaning up the 800 total miles he put on the car to get there. He drove through 450 miles of rain and through about 1 quart of my motor oil, and still had what I think is the best looking '94 there. Did he deserve a trophy? It's not up to me to decide, I just think he should know why he didn't receive one.

Mav
 
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Discussion Starter #16
After the car show, I was told that SOME was wondering why it was a large amount of trophies left after the car shgow at ImpalaFest...UUUUUHHH..Ok


Expect anything and be ready for a car show, when you're hosting it. We always order extra trophies, to be ready for show cars to tie. To avoid extra work like shipping trophies and such, it's just smart to order extras. You have to be ready for ties in all classes.

As far as judging and placing, mistakes are gonna be made, no matter how hard you try to get it right. I'll bet my bottle of Crown Royal that Larry Hall will agree with me.

As far as the ISSCA show rules. Personally? I think it's too many classes for such a limited number of b-bodies that were produced, AND the average number of "big" event attendees.

Come on ladies and gents..Look at all of them classes we have broken down for ISSCA show classes. If we add anymore classes, we may as well hand each of you a trophy during registration. Pretty corny borny, huh??

Please don't take this note the wrong way. The ISSCA show rules will NOT make everybody happy.

Please, just do your best with what you have. But mainly, HAVE FUN. Remember ya'll. The main focus of putting on big impala events is mainly to have FUN. The competition is there. But may the best car win that $15/$20 trophy


Like Big Money said, just send your BOD your suggestions, do your best, but mainly have fun.
 
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Discussion Starter #17
Perhaps it’s time for me to enter in the discussion I have a 96 with 247,000 miles and took third in class, both cars that finished ahead of me had less than a third of the miles on them (less than 81K), one spends most of its time in the garage prepping for the next car show. It is extremely difficult to compete with cars of this caliber however it is also extremely gratifying knowing we did so well (after all isn’t that what competition is about). But car shows are about showing the auto, the innovation of the owner and their passion about the car; to encourage participants to take the time and make the effort to show up and display their labor of love, then being recognized for their effort by receiving a trophy, not competition.

I took the time this event to get an estimate on the size of classes; the mild street class (all years) had by far the majority of cars. I believe the 95 and 96 over 50K classes (mild street) each had over 25 cars (I’m sure HOSS has the stats), which is a lot of cars and competition. I would think having classes with so many cars would be counter productive to encouraging people to put in the effort to show up and show at a car show. If people are discouraged and don’t believe they have an opportunity to do well, will they continue to put out the expense to go to events of this magnitude. I think not.
If we take a lead from events like Supper Chevy and use floating brackets (color breaks or mileage for example) to make smaller classes then we encourage more participation.

We all enjoy the comrade of our follow SS’ers when we go to these events, we get the opportunity to renew old friendships and develop new ones as well. Wouldn’t it be a shame to miss out on all that fun because people felt they had no chance for appreciation.

ISSCA should revamp the rules, make more classes not less (trophies aren’t that expensive, and if they are then I’m sure they could seek out contributions from the business owners who own cars to offset the cost of trophies), include color breaks and high mileage classes as well as works in progress, put the diehard show competitors (trailer queens and such) in their own class and pass out those trophies.

Rick Matthews
“Highway”

SAIL (Original) Member
ISSCA Member
NASSIO Member
 
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Discussion Starter #18
Just bt "floating" the milage breakdown, you would be able to even out the classes some so that you don't wind up with 3 95 mild street under 50k and 20 95 mild street over 50k. For example, Take all the 95 mild street cars, look at the milage on all of them, then pick a median milage to split the group evenly. At one show, the median may be 50k, at another, it may be 80k. You could have 2 different cars compete in the same class at one show, then not be in the other cars class at the next show due to the floating milage breakdown. Wouldn't it suck to be the poor bastard that is always in Gary Grants class show after show? This would also partially eliminate classes that have only 2 or 3 cars in them.

Example:
95 street
car 1 has 26,000
car 2 has 45,000
car 3 has 51,500
car 4 has 62,000
car 5 has 74,000
car 6 has 217,000

The median would be 56,750 putting cars 1,2, and 3 in under and 4,5, and 6 in over. You cannot use an average (79,166) because car 6 would wind up in his own class.


I also think that "mild street" should be eliminated all together. Just stock, street, and modified.
 
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Discussion Starter #19
My idea as to classes. Don't deal with mileages as that just adds to the already massive amount of trophies for the SS cars. I think what needs to be revised in regards to SS cars is the way points are scored. Some of the items on the score sheets are rather rediculous, IMO. Less emphasis on how many specks of dirt are on the car, more on what's actually been done to the car. Complexity, ingeniuity, uniqueness, etc of mods is what I think should have more bearing.

Also, each car should be only allowed one trophy with exception of the lone "Best of Show". If a car is a trailered car, then it's not eligiable for the "95 Wild" trophy in addition. If there are only say, 3 wagons with one being all out wild, one SS-ified, and one stock, then they be combined into one instead of being split between classes.

Car shows aren't about going and winning trophies though. Too much emphasis is put on that "Gotta win the trophy" attitude, and I think it detracts from my opinion towards the SS shows. In regards to Impalafest, that's the one big turnoff I had towards it. Go to any major street rod show and there is hardly any "gotta win a trophy" attitude. The atmosphere is totally different and I like it much better. It's all about showcasing your work and talent as a builder.


<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Trailered Car
<LI>Project Car
<LI>Best of Show (whatever that means)

<LI>People's Choice Impala
<LI>People's Choice Wagon
<LI>People's Choice non-Impala Sedan

<LI>'94 Stock
<LI>'94 Mild
<LI>'94 Wild

<LI>'95 Stock
<LI>'95 Mild
<LI>'95 Wild

<LI>'96 Stock
<LI>'96 Mild
<LI>'96 Wild

<LI>Sedan Mild
<LI>Sedan Wild

<LI>Wagon Mild
<LI>Wagon Wild
[/list]
 
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Discussion Starter #20
I did want to chime in about how cars were judged. This was my first car event and I enjoyed everything about it. Everyone I met I really enjoyed talking to. Hats of the HOSS on a great job getting all this together. threeimpalas is correct on the need to look at the whole car and not just how much show it has. I don't know if you were referring to me with the underhood shine I had, but I did want to point out that very little under my hood was bolt-on goodies. I handmade 90% of what you saw. I do know what work goes into someones ride and enjoy looking at everyones creativity. Store bought doesn't do a thing for me. Sorry, I had to add my two cents on this
 
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