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Whether or not anyone has done what you're asking, it's a moot point.
If AI spec's your cam/valvetrain based on your setup, ANY head will perform to its utmost potential.

I wouldn't know. But....

I don't think you would find a measurable difference between them. If someone claims some vast benefit to one over the other assume they are blindly defending whatever decision they made.

 

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I don't think the jury is in on that yet, as Pat has only a few runs on his Ai set-up. If indded he winds up going 11.0's or so then I'd say there is a noticable difference because then the next fastest would be an LE set-up at 11.50.

Waaay to many variables for a meaninful comparo.

Apples and oranges to be exact! I love Pat like a brother, and hope he hits the 10's. But if it's solely due to the AI heads, then I'll kiss your ass in the county square, and give you an hour to draw a crowd!

 

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Oh I don't think they're so far apart: at least not apples and oranges apart. I wish you would have had more time to really tweak the set-up you had as that's what Pat will be doing. Just out of the box, I think the Ai stuff has a little advantage in that his runs have all been at 900 ft alt which kinda evens out any suggested advantage over cars running below sea level with DA numbers only dreamed about elsewhere

Ah, you're probably right. Pat got lucky, found the right parts, and just look at him now. Or, could it be that AI got lucky? Boy, it's really hard to give a compliment, unless you give it to a vendor.

It would have been fun to have someone like Pat pushing me, but I've moved on and I don't regret it. Having a really fast LT1 isn't as a big a deal anymore. But hey, perhaps you could talk Bill DeBlasio into putting a new top end and cam in the flambe. With nothing more than "the right parts" in his 396, then he'd probably be faster than you.

 

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How about my car running 11.5 at a +500 DA not a -1700 and doing so with street tires on front, full exhaust, bumpers, swaybars, AC, ABS, less stall, same gear but a taller tire for less effective gear. No ice, no trailer, true 93 octane pump gas. This is hotlapping not hour and a half cooldown.

The parts HAVE been tested on the same car people just doesn't like the outcome so they dismiss the result.

A more knowledgeable and experienced individual would realize it is much more than just "environmental factors" that is the issue.

EDIT: Didn't read Dwayne's post directly above this one before I posted this. I posted directly from email link to KW post.
Dwayne and I are on the same page in regards to the different variables one needs to be aware of.

I missed this, and I think it's aimed at me. Perhaps you (either of you) could explain more of this 11.5 run, and help do an accurate comparo between the two samples. I could be wrong, and there may be more of a difference between the vendors with respect to certain aspects of a top end. Enlighten me.

 

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Glen if you need an excuse to put your lips on another mans buttocks, please call me tonight after 11pm. Thank you.

Yea sure, just mark a spot, it wouldn't need to be a buttock!

Hey Stumpy.........now THERE'S an offer you better take him up on. Harris is on a diet. But Kahuna?......hell, you could eat for a week....lol!

A diet, he's already 160# soaking wet.

LOL. Thanks Glen, at least SOMEONE gets it.


Thanks Mike (and Glen).

I guess I broke enough stuff back with my blower car that I just decided that I want to run and run a lot without pushing my LT1 to the ragged edge. Sort of what I am intending to do with my 502 and what Glen is doing with his BBC. We ain't pro's, we can't keep breaking our junk and spending our mortgage/kids college money on engines over and over. Been there, done that, never want to go back.

So true, I rarely do the "ET at any cost" type of builds. My HC setup had heavy duty parts that cost me ET, and I never stripped it down as far as I could have. I got to 11.5 with it and had to make a decision on putting in a roll bar, and decided to go a different route. When I built that Caprice, it was still heavy and built with a BBC in mind. I don't have a problem spending money, but quality and reliability are a big priority.

 

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Which one, made multiple passes on multiple days. Did your's?

Let's start with details like full capped up exhaust to the bumper on the best 11.56 run, swaybars, bumpers, AC, ABS all completely intact. Caprice alloys on front wrapped in Kelley Safaris.

Cam is under 230degrees, same one Pat is using, and the same 200cc heads he has.

3800 Edge 4.10s, 28" ET Drags

With a 150mile drive EACH way I can't be pulling safety equipment like bumpers, and pulling stuff like exhaust is way too much work at the track.

Before you go any further with your accusations ask yourself what would Pat's car run if you left a few hundred pounds in it???

Right where my car runs.

I don't get why you're so defensive, but forget that and let's try to remain objective.

Why don't we compare our combo's right here. Mine is listed on the TopEt page, but I don't see yours. I think it would be best to put aside the 150 miles each way and how much work it is to pull stuff. Just spell out your exact runs (or best one) and the pertinent details such as weight, full time slip, race trim, weather, etc. Try and stick to the facts that matter. I have no intention of demeaning you or criticizing your combo. It sounds like you've improved quite a bit since the last time I saw you run. Hence my reason for asking what you've done different.

 

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I think at the end of the day neither of you two guys bring much to the table. Neither has any real life experience with that which you both pretend to know so much about. It's a little frustrating for those of us in the field actually "doing", listening to you's "speculating" from your desktop dyno or wherever else it is you get your hypothetical information you deliver here. When I, and some others, come on and say something is good or something works, it's because I/we can prove it. At the end of the day, what people say about their own cars and stadegies and the ET page pretty much speaks for itself.

Am I to assume this is aimed at me and Bill? I can't read your mind.

I think I know what has worked for me, and I can evaluate the results others have posted here and at the TopET Page, yours included. Based on all that, I still contend that there is little difference performance wise between AI and LE with respect to the heads. However, I am starting to see clear evidence that the AI cam is working better, delivering more of the good stuff, i.e. tq. HP is for bragging, Tq is for winning. It would appear that Pat (and others like yourself) will continue to win based on the results!

For the record, I believe that AI has a better approach to delivering a quality top end than Lloyd. They provide the complete package, heads, cam, springs, valves, retainers, guides, etc. Lloyd directs you (or so he did when I got my setup 5 years ago), and leaves too much to chance. I never, let me repeat, NEVER had a single valve train related issue with my LE2 setup. I bought good parts, and had them put together by a competent engine builder rather than assembling the parts myself. There is a lot to valve train setup that if not spec'd and built properly can lead to problems, and in my view it happens mostly with Lloyd's customers than to AI. Lloyd is a porter, and outsources much of what AI does in house. Therefore, they get better control over qulity, and that definitely counts for something.

 

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Dwayne, are you formulating a response? Are you even planning to respond? I don't understand your silence. It would seem that you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

 

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I thought I was on too with my back to back .025 and .019 lights until I guessed wrong on the coin flip and wound up right lane in the slop for the finals.

Try to remember that tire spin will kill reaction time. You likely reacted the same as the first two rounds, but the tire spin made it look like you fell asleep .

Yep, same thing happened to me. I cut a descent light in the left lane, but both times in the right I spun pretty bad (diff. between a 1.44 and 1.57 60') and the light's went from .04x to .1xx. The track was probably too cold, and being E-Town, too many street cars tearing up the groove.