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LE1 heads & Advaced induction valvetrain/cam

11K views 95 replies 29 participants last post by  stonebreaker 
#1 ·
Is anyone running a set of LE1 heads combined with one of advanced inductions valvetrain/cam kits? AI seem to cover all bases with the valvetrain and I hear only good things about the LE1 heads..
 
#2 ·
Whether or not anyone has done what you're asking, it's a moot point.
If AI spec's your cam/valvetrain based on your setup, ANY head will perform to its utmost potential.
 
#7 ·
I wouldn't know. But....

I don't think you would find a measurable difference between them. If someone claims some vast benefit to one over the other assume they are blindly defending whatever decision they made. ;)
 
#4 · (Edited)
Pick ONE or the other, don't try and mix.
Well, my LE2 heads love my Ai cam! However, Karl did consult with Ai about matching one of the their cams with my LE2 heads and Crane valve springs. According to Ai, my cam was specifically designed to work with the Crane 308 double valve springs. Didn't have to spend extra $ for Ai valve train. Another reason I would recommend them. They're obviously straight with you and do not try and sell you stuff you don't need.

Would love to get a set of their TFS heads! Saving $.
 
#6 ·
Definitely, the best way to do it if you are starting out. But even if you have heads already or just a cam, still talk to your porter about matching to maximize the potential of your heads or cam.
 
#8 ·
Some claim that LE's heads are good, but they are ported by hand, but he does give you flow charts. AI's heads are CNC'd, which is really the reason i would go with them....
 
#64 ·
Damn thats it?!! I was expecting more!!

LE2 heads, all well documented on the big Camaro boards.







267 intake and 185 exhaust from some FULLY PORTED heads? Thats it? This is what you guys are always boasting about? WOW! My Edelbrocks that you talked so much crap about are ONLY VALVE POCKET ported and rounded out at the intake mating surface and dont even have a runner port and they flow 267 and 185. Dont believe me? Look it up because its fully documented tested and proven! WOW!! Well we all know what they say...Men Lie...Women Lie...BUT THE NUMBERS DONT!!!
 
#16 · (Edited)
My response to 'Bully' included comments that delt with the pics Dwayne has just posted above. But because of my frustration with this site and the idiot KW, forget it!!! KW knows about as much about govt. issues as he does headwork. DAMN little!

The connection issues this site suffers from are not however, as much of a problem as are some of its dickhead posters that post on it. :mad:
 
#26 · (Edited)
The connection issues this site suffers from are not however, as much of a problem as are some of its dickhead posters that post on it. :mad:
There are no connection issues on ISSF. Most of us don't have any problems connecting here. Some of you do. Search the DNS issue post in MISC to resolve YOUR connection issue.

At least you admit you're one of the dickhead posters....
 
#24 ·
One graph is intake, the other exhaust, both before.


It made a decent number on the dyno with ported intake but did not drive well, lowend was poor.

He went to AI heads and cam with as cast intake and picked up 24rwhp, 14tq, .2et 2mph and lowend traction problems. Needless to say he is happy.
 
#22 ·
How about my car running 11.5 at a +500 DA not a -1700 and doing so with street tires on front, full exhaust, bumpers, swaybars, AC, ABS, less stall, same gear but a taller tire for less effective gear. No ice, no trailer, true 93 octane pump gas. This is hotlapping not hour and a half cooldown.

The parts HAVE been tested on the same car people just doesn't like the outcome so they dismiss the result.
 
#35 ·
How about my car running 11.5 at a +500 DA not a -1700 and doing so with street tires on front, full exhaust, bumpers, swaybars, AC, ABS, less stall, same gear but a taller tire for less effective gear. No ice, no trailer, true 93 octane pump gas. This is hotlapping not hour and a half cooldown.

The parts HAVE been tested on the same car people just doesn't like the outcome so they dismiss the result.
A more knowledgeable and experienced individual would realize it is much more than just "environmental factors" that is the issue.

EDIT: Didn't read Dwayne's post directly above this one before I posted this. I posted directly from email link to KW post.
Dwayne and I are on the same page in regards to the different variables one needs to be aware of.
I missed this, and I think it's aimed at me. Perhaps you (either of you) could explain more of this 11.5 run, and help do an accurate comparo between the two samples. I could be wrong, and there may be more of a difference between the vendors with respect to certain aspects of a top end. Enlighten me.
 
#28 ·
Oh I don't think they're so far apart: at least not apples and oranges apart. I wish you would have had more time to really tweak the set-up you had as that's what Pat will be doing. Just out of the box, I think the Ai stuff has a little advantage in that his runs have all been at 900 ft alt which kinda evens out any suggested advantage over cars running below sea level with DA numbers only dreamed about elsewhere :)
 
#29 ·
;)
Oh I don't think they're so far apart: at least not apples and oranges apart. I wish you would have had more time to really tweak the set-up you had as that's what Pat will be doing. Just out of the box, I think the Ai stuff has a little advantage in that his runs have all been at 900 ft alt which kinda evens out any suggested advantage over cars running below sea level with DA numbers only dreamed about elsewhere :)
Ah, you're probably right. Pat got lucky, found the right parts, and just look at him now. Or, could it be that AI got lucky? Boy, it's really hard to give a compliment, unless you give it to a vendor. ;)

It would have been fun to have someone like Pat pushing me, but I've moved on and I don't regret it. Having a really fast LT1 isn't as a big a deal anymore. But hey, perhaps you could talk Bill DeBlasio into putting a new top end and cam in the flambe. With nothing more than "the right parts" in his 396, then he'd probably be faster than you. :p
 
#40 · (Edited)
I have ran LE2's and intake for several years now. Had to have them rebuilt after 3000 miles the first time (bent valves). Then an exhaust port cracked and got raw antifreeze out the passenger side exhaust. Had it fixed. Heads have been remilled down to 53cc chamber and got rid of the 918 beehives for patriot gold springs. Beehives floated the valves at about 6200 rpms and you could see where the valves hit the pistons in the corners of the valve reliefs. I could have bought 1 1/2 sets of AI heads cam and intake for what I have in just the LE2 heads. Do they work well? Yes but at what expense. So I am Installing an AI setup after many conversations with Mike, Pat, and Dewayne. Going with 200cc heads, cam, intake, and valve train package. Do I think the car will perform better? No doubt in my mind. Will it hold up better? ABSOLUTELY!!!. Not putting down LE just my personal experience. Also adding a 4 bolt spayed forged 385 ci bottom end to go along with the AI setup.
 
#45 ·
Dwayne, I'd like to know what your race weight was, maybe I didn't see it, and you posted it somewhere else?

I'm just curious how close I might have gotten to that 11.56, if I was racing up your way.

I give up weight to everybody, because I'm not exactly skinny. That part is hard to reduce!:p
 
#46 · (Edited)
I don't understand you's guy's point

I think at the end of the day neither of you two guys bring much to the table. Neither has any real life experience with that which you both pretend to know so much about. It's a little frustrating for those of us in the field actually "doing", listening to you's "speculating" from your desktop dyno or wherever else it is you get your hypothetical information you deliver here. When I, and some others, come on and say something is good or something works, it's because I/we can prove it. At the end of the day, what people say about their own cars and stadegies and the ET page pretty much speaks for itself.
 
#53 ·
I think at the end of the day neither of you two guys bring much to the table. Neither has any real life experience with that which you both pretend to know so much about. It's a little frustrating for those of us in the field actually "doing", listening to you's "speculating" from your desktop dyno or wherever else it is you get your hypothetical information you deliver here. When I, and some others, come on and say something is good or something works, it's because I/we can prove it. At the end of the day, what people say about their own cars and stadegies and the ET page pretty much speaks for itself.
Am I to assume this is aimed at me and Bill? I can't read your mind. ;)

I think I know what has worked for me, and I can evaluate the results others have posted here and at the TopET Page, yours included. Based on all that, I still contend that there is little difference performance wise between AI and LE with respect to the heads. However, I am starting to see clear evidence that the AI cam is working better, delivering more of the good stuff, i.e. tq. HP is for bragging, Tq is for winning. It would appear that Pat (and others like yourself) will continue to win based on the results!

For the record, I believe that AI has a better approach to delivering a quality top end than Lloyd. They provide the complete package, heads, cam, springs, valves, retainers, guides, etc. Lloyd directs you (or so he did when I got my setup 5 years ago), and leaves too much to chance. I never, let me repeat, NEVER had a single valve train related issue with my LE2 setup. I bought good parts, and had them put together by a competent engine builder rather than assembling the parts myself. There is a lot to valve train setup that if not spec'd and built properly can lead to problems, and in my view it happens mostly with Lloyd's customers than to AI. Lloyd is a porter, and outsources much of what AI does in house. Therefore, they get better control over qulity, and that definitely counts for something.
 
#48 ·
If you have a great pizza eat it.

Hey Italian Guy..
If you have a great pizza eat it.

Bill:
Leave your ride alone. It is just fine.
You have a PROVEN set up which is at a good limit.
Plus your car is heavier than most.

YEAH, adding a better cam may provide a few tenths performance.

IF I were you..Keep it a Garage Queen...!!!
Dangle a Pair of Ovaries off the back..if you wanna..cwm4

Build a Track Car you can drive to the races.
Put all the secret good stuff you want.

Run it like you live life...RAGE IT !!

Dan
 
#56 ·
Boy this thread has a little bit of everything!

I think I just might have to subscribe to it!
 
#59 ·
Keep the debate about the producys and keep the personal crap out of it.
Much more and this thread is gone,
 
#62 ·
I can't believe I just wasted 20 mins. reading all this and really didn't learn a thing.....but the entertainment value was PRICELESS!
 
#63 ·
Dwayne, are you formulating a response? Are you even planning to respond? I don't understand your silence. It would seem that you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. :confused:
 
#68 ·
Not really. I think when BK and Paul built that engine, they took everything into account. I think it makes alot of power and perhaps contrary to what many here believe, once you have an in-the-ballpart-camshaft that works in your set-up, there isn't going to be any sgnificant horsepower to be found by changing the cam. A road course style suspension alone I think costs as much as 7 tenths, maybe more when drag racing. Then take the weight into account: they're makin power :)
 
#69 ·
Not really. I think when BK and Paul built that engine, they took everything into account. I think it makes alot of power and perhaps contrary to what many here believe, once you have an in-the-ballpart-camshaft that works in your set-up, there isn't going to be any sgnificant horsepower to be found by changing the cam. A road course style suspension alone I think costs as much as 7 tenths, maybe more when drag racing. Then take the weight into account: they're makin power :)

Mike you maybe right.
But where the power is in the Curve will help.
BK cam LSA is wide..think he said 114 degrees.

If he got one with 107 he would shift the power to the midrange.
Could pick up about 3 tenths but that is about all.

D
 
#72 ·
LOL to all. I DO think a sick AI HC package will help me but as stated, I am surrounded by AI stuff at a lot of our races and I believe I would pick up .3-.5 at the most.

As far as Stony and a few others saying just do the cam...well hell if I'm going back into that motor, or should I say PAUL is going back in, then we are going to do heads too.

I like my consistent, drive-anywhere setup. I just put about 125 miles on her this past week playing around making sure she is ready to rock tomorrow at ETown.

Will post cold (45 and sunny forecasted) weather results here when I get home tomorrow night and also let you know how the ERE/AI 383 boys like Lance and Matrix did as well.

Also keep in mind, not that it matters much, mine is a 396.

It was built back in 2000 by Nick at Nutek before his business went down the toilet with all best-of-best all-Callies rotating assembly.

Found these pics of my junk in the archives...:D I know you guys like pikshers...









 
#75 ·
Etown yesterday. Tranny is almost done. 2-3 shift you can hear the engine rev a bit before it catches and starts pulling again.

Just thought you all would like to see this pic on the scales...:D



That's one fat whale! Full tank of gas, full drivers seat o'driver, 12 way Bonnies, 1500 carpet with dynamat, LTCC coil per cylinder, full nitrous bottle in trunk (not used), tool bag, etc. I listed anything I think added weight to the car.

I ran 12.45-12.55 although the slower runs had some serious slippage as the ETown right lane was a mess at the end of the day. It cost me a shot at the win IMO as I lost the coin flip to Keefer and had to go right in the finals. We were both tearing it up in the left lane going through eliminations. I bounced Nabby with an .019 light to his .060 light. :D Made him break out running away from me. A good light will slay a sandbagger every time. Also had an .025 light to send Dragon Wagon home.

So, anyway, 12.45-12.55 with 2-3 slippage. When I hooked I was in the 12.45-12.48 range all day.

60 fts were great as usual for a 4600 NA car:

1.64's all day when I hooked, 1.66-1.68's with slippage.

MPH's were all in the 107.5-107.8 MPH range.

I was about .3 slower than Lance all day, right where I expected to be.

BTW, I drove it there cranking the tunes and taking turns on the Belt Parkway at unrealistic speeds as usual. ;) Raced all day, and drove it home like a maniac as well. God I love this car.

Comments, thoughts, suggestions?
 
#77 ·
Etown yesterday. Tranny is almost done. 2-3 shift you can hear the engine rev a bit before it catches and starts pulling again.

Comments, thoughts, suggestions?
Add a 1/2 to 1 qt of tranny fluid (despite what the dipstick (not you lol) says) and see if the revving stops.
 
#76 ·
It looks like AI is worth about .3-.4 sec over most competing combos but it is not going to make any b-body an 11 sec car without a lot of extra effort and weight reduction.

I would love to see a 4300+ heads/cam/stroker b-body on (drag) radial tires and a street suspension run below 12.3 seconds in non-freezing weather.
 
#79 ·
i actually email AI before i saw this thread. im looking to get my head/intake work and i still havent gotten a text back.

that put aside i came to this thread to gain some knowledge but got a lil upset and almost quit reading when it got ugly. glad it's pickin back up. i got a few question..

how much gain is to be expected from a complete stock lt1 150k miles iron head to a 190cc head package along with the intake manifold cleaning inlet porting?

does the package comes with a 1.6 roller rocker?

if i sent them my iron head as core. will the package come back aluminum or do i have to provide them an aluminum head? (im not saying they can convert iron to aluminum but if they will switch from iron to aluminum ).

any impalassforum discount code?

is the price shipped?

how much will it cost to ship our core?

how long till they ship the part when they receive the money in full including our core parts?

warranty?
 
#80 ·
LE2/AI cam Ellwein 383

My SS with 4100 lbs race weight, 1st generation LE2 heads and AI 234/242 cam in a Ellwein 383 got 12.1's @ 111 all day at E-Town, but I still couldn't beat Keef :(
 
#82 ·
LOL Jeff I already lost 50 lbs. I'm trying man!

And yes, I am tempted to one day gut it and really shake things up BUT my goal is to eventually finish the 502 and then make that my drive everywhere race car. Then I will look into weight reduction, etc.

The Flambe will then be returned to a pleasure driver and maybe even throw the 6-speed in her I've been dreaming about for 15 years.

The other 96 SS I sold to Shane had the 4L80E in it. This one is the tranny built by Terry in CT for Cliff and its been rebuilt a few times. I'm gonna try over-adding a little tranny fluid but I think since I spray through the shifts (even though it was just a baby 100 shot) I may have contributed to her demise.

Shane is promising me a Level Eleventy Billion 4L60E so we'll see what I decide to do. Of course, I've also thought of a Turbo 400 with a gear vendors overdrive...hehehehehe...

My SS with 4100 lbs race weight, 1st generation LE2 heads and AI 234/242 cam in a Ellwein 383 got 12.1's @ 111 all day at E-Town, but I still couldn't beat Keef :(
Well, you were slightly faster than Keith and I was slightly slower and he whupped us both. It didn't matter on Saturday, the bastard was ON! I thought I was on too with my back to back .025 and .019 lights until I guessed wrong on the coin flip and wound up right lane in the slop for the finals.
 
#81 ·
BK, you may be one of the few other cars in my weight range. I'm at 4520 now so you need to run a few laps around the block, not the car but YOU, and see if you can get to 4550.

Some people can't make it past a buffet line.

All joking a side, I weigh 210 so I'm no light weight either and don't help my car much. A TRUE 12 second street car is a very fast car that most claim they have but really don't. You could make it run 10's and still drive it everywhere based on what I know about these carst this point. Faster than that at your weight and it starts to get hard that you can trust it to make it back from the track everytime.

I thought you had a 4L80E in that thing??? The right built 4L60E will more than live with what your doing.
 
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