Chevy Impala SS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was recently pointed in the direction of the "First" intake manifolds and was curious about them. One older member (Old Coot) apparently installed one modified for the LT1 around 10 years ago and started a thread about it, unfortunately the thread was started in July of '09, talk about bad timing (August of '09 anyone? Bueller? Bueller?) so I'm hoping someone still has a copy of the info floating around somewhere? Probably not, but I figured I would see what anyone remembers. So far I can't find any other references to the intake on here, and that one thread made it to 7 pages in the incredibly short time it was still around. Probably a fair amount of good info, it'd be shame if it's gone for good.



https://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/2-engine-performance/225045-first-long-runner-lt1-intake.html


https://firstfuelinjection.com/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
The thread he started on the subject, which I have fading memories of reading with tumescent eyeballs, is either temporarily misplaced or permanently lost.

However:
I have the FIRST long runner TPI intake on my L99 Caprice. The pictures on their website are my car.
Originally, the intake was going on our LT1 car, but when the engine decided to puke a rod bearing, I had to make other plans.
On the L99, the engine starts to pull hard about 1,000 rpm sooner than with the factory intake. My trip to work everyday is over a fairly steep mountain.
With the factory intake, I had to stand in the throttle far enough to force it to downshift into second gear and it would upshift to third at the top.
Now, I can pull the hill in 3rd and the torque converter will lock up before I get to the top. What does that mean? It is taking less throttle input to pull the car over the hill.
Less throttle to do the same work should equal more economy … but I can't keep my foot out of it to see if it really gets any better mileage.
If I ever get around to it, I would like to swap the current B-Body cam for a factory TPI 305 roller and advance it a couple of degrees for more low end power.
Under 6000RpM, more plenum volume is better for atmospheric engines. Heck, even the LS7 inlet manifold has more plenum volume than our LT1.
For pressurized engines, the benefits of additional plenum volume go beyond 6000RpM.

If you ever managed to make a manifold like this seal properly in a boosted application, the extra plenum volume would ALSO make room for chilling provisions …

Shoot Old Coot a PM, invite him to wax prosaic about it here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,229 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: schlicky13

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,297 Posts
I was recently pointed in the direction of the "First" intake manifolds and was curious about them.....

https://firstfuelinjection.com/
Would this be something similar to the Super Ram intake or is this a LS-style manifold for Gen-1 and 2 small blocks??

Gotta ask since I can't see the pictures from the web site....

KW
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,942 Posts
Looks like in the Archives there is a gap
from 8/13/2007 post 5184 LT4 Heads - Best Valve Spring Replacement? from 08/13/2007 on page 13 of Engine Performance section

to 8/6/2009 post 3033 TRE fuel pumps? from around 8/6/2009 on page 21 of Engine Performance section

the thread titles are there but no posts. So looks like the forum did lose some data.

your post is from
3127. The "FIRST" long runner LT1 intake.

You can ask the admins if we are SOL or if there is a way to view the data.
Or try yourself
https://archive.org/web/

Good Luck
-ALF out....

EDIT: pretty sure it's gone forever
Post #9
https://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/9-misc/322137-still-missin-old-days.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,229 Posts
I've had sporadic luck finding TGDL era threads by typing the title into DuckDuck. But there's even 51 hits inside the forum with 'long runner intake', and this one seems either close to, or actually within, that time void:
https://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/2-engine-performance/370385-check-larger-version-gm-tpi-intake-manifold.html


Links point off in different directions too.


So at least B-'s have 4" runners. Just a dumb ? - did GM use a different length for lighter F/Y-bodies? Not 15" but more than 4"?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
So at least B-'s have 4" runners. Just a dumb ? - did GM use a different length for lighter F/Y-bodies? Not 15" but more than 4"?
Unless it's an LT4 intake, an L99 / LT1 intake, is an L99 / LT1 intake.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
The thread he started on the subject, which I have fading memories of reading with tumescent eyeballs, is either temporarily misplaced or permanently lost.

However:Under 6000RpM, more plenum volume is better for atmospheric engines. Heck, even the LS7 inlet manifold has more plenum volume than our LT1.
For pressurized engines, the benefits of additional plenum volume go beyond 6000RpM.

If you ever managed to make a manifold like this seal properly in a boosted application, the extra plenum volume would ALSO make room for chilling provisions …

Shoot Old Coot a PM, invite him to wax prosaic about it here.

Hm, interesting. I have a pretty good idea on how to definitively seal any of these manifolds even under boost, but I lack access to the required equipment. Give me a couple days on a CNC and I could machine in provisions to just o-ring everything and even if I need a custom o-ring, I know a guy that makes obsolete gaskets and o-rings and similar stuff for restoring old cars. I've actually made a couple molds for him on the cnc before. I could make up the needed molds and he could pour whatever I needed. From the looks of it though, I'd believe that the FIRST would be far easier to seal up than the Lingenfelter, the top lid on that is notorious from what I read after buying it. I was less worried when I was planning to stick with NA, as I've got a few tricks up my sleeve for that one. Under boost though it could be more of a challenge. And although I've got an air to air cooler with the kit for the procharger, I'd also considered maybe adding some sort of water or methanol injection system when I want to run all out. Of course I've also heard that NOx can cool the charge rather effectively as well. :grin2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Would this be something similar to the Super Ram intake or is this a LS-style manifold for Gen-1 and 2 small blocks??

Gotta ask since I can't see the pictures from the web site....

KW

I tried pulling some pics, that website is weird. I'll keep trying, but I might just end grabbing some screenshots.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Managed to pull a decent pic from a search engine. It's got some interesting features and is fairly adaptable. I don't know if Old Coot modified it himself for the LT1 (which I assume is mainly just block off the distributor hole in the back) or if he special ordered it. You can even move the throttle body over to the driver side if you want, that's what the side plate there is for, it's just blocking that opening and it's interchangeable to the front. Since it's built for the older TPI motor, it should mount a standard LT1 throttle body just fine, but I also saw a lot of pics on the website with what appeared to be newer LSx style throttle bodies also mounted to these things, which I wouldn't hate.


Edit: I just remembered that I think the bolt pattern is different between the sbc manifold and an LT1 manifold, would probably need to re-drill for that if it can't be ordered with the LT1 specs, but that wouldn't be too big of a deal to accomplish.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Just had a really weird thought. I wonder if I could use the LT1 base from my SuperRam with their plenum, and whichever runners I can make work and just frankenstein the thing? Him, probably not but it's an interesting idea nonetheless.


Edit: I was reading through one of the links above and looked at the FIRST website again and found that they do offer LT1 base options, so it should be mostly a bolt-on affair.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
256 Posts
Wow! What a blast from the past...
I've still got the same purple L99 Caprice with the FIRST intake. It had been living in the garage, unmoved for about 4 years, but a couple of weeks ago, I tossed a fresh battery in and it came back to life...then the waterpump rear bearing puked its guts. Meh, no biggie- it had a lifetime warranty pump and after 13 years, O'Reilly's gave me a new one. Anyway, the old L99 still chugs along fairly well. Back when I first installed the intake, I played around with the tune and got it 'close enough', but could really stand some more tweaking. It needed the timing map changed a lot to mimic a TPI map, but it still needs some work. I was kind of a guinea pig because when I bought the intake, FIRST was not sure if it would clear the overhanging cowl on the Caprice. It is close!
If I can be of any help, I'll do my best.
Greg
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,297 Posts
Managed to pull a decent pic from a search engine......
The runners are very reminiscent to the Super Ram....the intake itself is a bit smaller than the Super Ram's 'breadbox'.

But this runner length is exactly what our cars should've came with!

KW
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Just had a really weird thought. I wonder if I could use the LT1 base from my SuperRam with their plenum, and whichever runners I can make work and just frankenstein the thing? Him, probably not but it's an interesting idea nonetheless.
I’ve been reading through other forums to see what I could find out about it. Sounds like no part of the First intake is interchangeable with anything else.

It is a very interesting idea. Just not sure if I’m interested in the 1k price tag.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I’ve been reading through other forums to see what I could find out about it. Sounds like no part of the First intake is interchangeable with anything else.

It is a very interesting idea. Just not sure if I’m interested in the 1k price tag.

It was just a thought since I already have an lt1 superram. I could easily sell that though and it would more than cover the first intake. I'd run it if I thought there was any way to keep it sealed under boost. The first should have way less issue with that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
Wow, I remember that old thread and the first intake did look simpler then the Superram...I have been running the Superram for over 10 years..I have seen it on a few boosted motors...I used a L98 base, so I did have to weld up all the middle manifold holes and redrill...Then double .060 intake manifold gaskets..Freezeplug for distributor..Only other thing is I make my own thicker runner gaskets..No leaks...80k miles, daily driver...kev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
As far as Timing?..Take at least 2 degrees out of 3200 and below at 100kpa, then copy the 100 table into the 95kpa..Tamper the 90 row into your new 95 row...Do Not reduce the spark retard table below 3600, nor run PCM4LESS mail order tune...Cost me a #3 piston.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
All timing recommentons are off a stock B-body timing chart...add no additional timing anywhere above 70kpa ..above1800 rpm and below 70kpa, you can add a few degrees...Now for force induction, both are ram effect tuning manifold for Na engine and maybe a little nitrous (not wet flow designed, less then 150hp)...for forced induction, I personally would not want the added restrictions/heat of runners..just my two cents...kev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
All timing recommentons are off a stock B-body timing chart...add no additional timing anywhere above 70kpa ..above1800 rpm and below 70kpa, you can add a few degrees...Now for force induction, both are ram effect tuning manifold for Na engine and maybe a little nitrous (not wet flow designed, less then 150hp)...for forced induction, I personally would not want the added restrictions/heat of runners..just my two cents...kev
I know intakes are less important when dealing with forced induction, but I was under the impression there were still some gains to be had over the stock manifold. I could be wrong though. I basically made up my mind that I won't try to run the Superram with boost, too much of a headache as far as I'm concerned. There's an outside chance it could find it's way onto the LT1 in my S10 Blazer, or maybe I'll just sell it. With that being the case, I'd been looking at alternatives and found the First intake and thought it might be easier to work with. Out of curiosity, in your opinion, when running boost (in my case I'll be using a procharger) would you stick with stock or opt for ported stock (ie - Lloyd Elliot)?
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top