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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Putting in my 850# springs today I noticed that one of the control arm block bolts was missing. It's no big deal getting a replacement, but I don't know where I am going to get one of the spacers before next weekend. Tried calling the only HA number I know and just get a "call cannot be completed as dialed, Verizon Wireless..."

Anyone have a clue how to get hold of HA VSE these days or a small machine shop north of Miami that can turn out a copy of the one I still have?
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
FWIW, the bar from Malibu performance is a clone of the REAR HA/HO bar.

What Scott is referring to, most folks that haven't been around the B-body world for the better part of a decade probably don't know what he is talking about ;) . Herb Adams used to make a FRONT bar for our cars that had Heim-joints in front, or optionally could be set up with a tie-rod end type endlink arrangement (by special order...you could get the Heim Joint version straight from Summit Racing).

Upside to it : it gets rid of ALL of the slack in the front endlink arrangement.

Downside to it : it is difficult to replace the parts, and the heim joint version would soon loosen up and rattle like a mofo under any kind of mileage. Fine on a race car, annoying as hell on the street.

Scott : to solve your problem, I'd go the local machine shop route...
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi,
This is the info I have, it's about 2-3 years old so I don't know if it is still good.
Matt Adams
8 Via Contenta
Carmel Valley, CA. 93924
831-659-7660
VSE sway bars

I aways keep telling myself to order a extra set of hardware, but always put it off and then forget about it. Hope the info is good.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ed, that sure brings back some old 'archival info'! Wasn't the 'HO' for all the racing High Output work Herb did for Pontiac Trans Ams? Then, his production reliability got so sporatic and flighty that his ?son? took over the reins under the 'HA' moniker?

I was sure glad to get an original Heim-joint version under my '82 Park Ave. But, after having the second joint bust up I finally tie-wired leather gloves stuffed with grease around them to keep them lubed and wet.

You talk about locked down tight, I had the collared washer and bolt pull right through the A-arm hole once, so I had a trademan at work weld 1/8" plates in and used bigger bolt/jamb nut setups.

Scott, is it the collared washer that surrounds the A-arm hole you lost?
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ed, I figured most here would not have a clue what I am talking about. Yes, 96 that is exactly the piece I need to replace/duplicate:


The initial hurry was this Test and Tune in Ft Meyers this upcoming weekend, but it turns out I won't be able to make it anyway. I do have a friend back in MI that has a lathe and can probably cut it out in about 5 minutes and get it sent to me before the first local event on the 28th.

First, I am going to give Matt a test call just to see how he responds. That info you posted is different than my 10-year old data, lazer ;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Wasn't the 'HO' for all the racing High Output work Herb did for Pontiac Trans Ams?
Nope.

Confusion comes from this : the bars were originally "HA" bars, HA standing for Herb Adams. This was well into the mid/late 90s...I think you could still get the rear HA bar (for only $130 shipped sitting on your doorstep from Summit Racing ;) ) until about 1999-2000 timeframe.

AFTER HA discontinued production of the HA rear bar for our cars, another company (HO Racing aka Malibu Performance) picked up production of a "clone" of the HA rear bar. As far as I know, they still produce that rear bar along with a front bar of their own (non-HA like) design.

My personal experience has shown that the HA rear bar is TOO big, and more-or-less a band-aid for the fact that other items in the chassis are pretty badly set up from GM (from a performance standpoint, keeping in mind they had other priorities like ride comfort, durability, controllability with "inexperienced" drivers, etc) as far as spring/shock rates. Fix those issues, and the car is quicker around corners with a smaller bar than the HA bar. My rear swaybar now is only 30mm (stock SS is 26 mm)...it could maybe use a LITTLE more, but not much. The car handles, well, a LOT better than a stock SS
. Consider that your handling setup hint of the day ;)

Then, his production reliability got so sporatic and flighty that his ?son? took over the reins under the 'HA' moniker?
His son took over the business at some point. I am not sure how serious (if at all) an endeavor it is for Matt Adams at this point...
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
FWIW, the bar from Malibu performance is a clone of the REAR HA/HO bar.

What Scott is referring to, most folks that haven't been around the B-body world for the better part of a decade probably don't know what he is talking about . Herb Adams used to make a FRONT bar for our cars that had Heim-joints in front, or optionally could be set up with a tie-rod end type endlink arrangement (by special order...you could get the Heim Joint version straight from Summit Racing).

Upside to it : it gets rid of ALL of the slack in the front endlink arrangement.

Downside to it : it is difficult to replace the parts, and the heim joint version would soon loosen up and rattle like a mofo under any kind of mileage. Fine on a race car, annoying as hell on the street.

Scott : to solve your problem, I'd go the local machine shop route...
Ooops! Glad to have learned something new from the earlier days.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
10-4 Ed. So, it was HA first, THEN HO/Malibu.

I got a Malibu rear on my Imp, and I have to agree that bar is mighty unforgiving back there. I believe the increased 'stability' and 'cornering' feel that I enjoy could just as easily be accomplished by welding the axle the frame!

Just in case I have a do-over someday, which "slightly-larger-than-stock-SS" 30mm rear did you go with?

Finally, you're right on about HA not making a rear. I had to have a GM engineer friend hunt up the absolute heaviest OEM rear listing he could find for me back trying to match the HA front I had on that Electra - I always remember it had 'Taxi or Fleet Service something something" in the description. LOL
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hmm, looks like a little pictoral documentation is in order
Thanks for the history lesson Ed. It's amazing how much knowledge and history can be lost in a few years even though the community is relatively small and lots of old-timers are still around. It almost seems like there should be a requirement to read through all the articles at http://theherd.com/tech_articles.html when joining the community. Too bad that Scott M guy never got around to finishing his book...
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The 30mm bar is from Hellwig, available thru Summit Racing.

Scott : while I agree the Scott Mueller articles are an excellent "Historical Start", the issue with them is that they are, well, "Historical" ... meaning they are basically current to about 1997 for the most part. As you might have guessed, quite a bit has changed (and, hopefully, improved ;) ) as far as knowledge and what is available aftermarket (which is VASTLY more) in this community since then.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Crazy post. Reminds me of my rear HA bar I bought. I think at the time it was the last production run from them. Funny thing about it is it is still hanging from a 16d nail on my garage wall. How many years ago was that? Isnt it great buying parts and never installing them?
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Originally posted by AutocroSSer:
Scott : while I agree the Scott Mueller articles are an excellent "Historical Start", the issue with them is that they are, well, "Historical" ... meaning they are basically current to about 1997 for the most part. As you might have guessed, quite a bit has changed (and, hopefully, improved ;) ) as far as knowledge and what is available aftermarket (which is VASTLY more) in this community since then.
It's a given that technology and procedures change over time, but I will bet good money that this is not the first history lesson you have given on HA swaybars over the years. ;) Probably won't be the last either... Some information is just good to have even if there is newer information that updates it. Unfortunately, it doesn't all warrant being stickied.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
On another related note....

been a while since I've looked at one of the Heim Joint HA front bars, but one of the "innovations" that has become a lot more common in the last decade is "lined" heim joints becoming more easily available. Advantage to them is that they do NOT get the quick rattle from slight wear that older heim joints get.

Where I'm going : wonder if there is a lined heim joint available now that would work with the HA front bar and deliver reasonable lifetime without rattles?

This all assumes that the HA FRONT bar (in any form) is still available. Not sure if that is the case or not...

BTW, the PN from Summit for the Hellwig rear bar is HEL-5820 and their front bar is HEL-5720. Their front bar is 1 5/16", but with the longer (stock length) lever arms should be about the same effective roll stiffness as the 32mm (1 1/4") F-body bar with the shorter arms.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Originally posted by AutocroSSer:
On another related note....

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BTW, the PN from Summit for the Hellwig rear bar is HEL-5820 and their front bar is HEL-5720. Their front bar is 1 5/16", but with the longer (stock length) lever arms should be about the same effective roll stiffness as the 32mm (1 1/4") F-body bar with the shorter arms.
Copied, stuck in my binder. Thanks.
 
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