[Caddyshack95]

I have been looking at Lower control arms and sway bars to try and control some of the body roll and rear end noise in my car. I have FE2 suspension (OEM) and was looking at putting beefier rear and front sway bars in the vehicle. Read on some old forum posts that a fat rear bar will likely crack the original lower control arms so now I am looking at those as well.

UMI seems to be a great place to get LCAs from... I did see that new POLY bushes will make the car ride stiff compared to the OEM rubber ones. Is this the case? I'm looking to keep the ride as squishy as possible, but remove some sway and roll in turns/corners.

Anyone have any experience with the standard UMI bars? What about the Roto joints? Would those make the car ride more smoothly compared to 2 POLY bushings? Links below to see what I am talking about. The Roto joints look really interesting, but can't find much about just a streetable car that's driven gently most of the time.

UMI Performance 3615 - UMI Boxed Lower Control Arms - GM B-Body

UMI Performance UMI Boxed Lower Control Arms - GM B-Body - 3615

www.lmperformance.com

1978-1996 GM B-Body Boxed Rear Lower Control Arms- Poly/Roto-Joint - UMI Performance Inc.

UMI’s boxed lower control arms utilize our Roto-Joint technology for a bind free performance and quiet comfortable ride quality. The

www.umiperformance.com

Also, it's been recommended that I check out BMR sway bars - their rear bar is fat and should really control the back end pretty well. Front bar is smaller, but the set would probably even the car out well (replace both).

Free Shipping on all BMR Suspension packages!

Leader in High Performance Suspension and Chassis Products For American Muscle Vehicles.

www.bmrsuspension.com

Thanks for your thoughtful advice!

 

[toonwarrior]

Probably get the best bang for your buck copying the setup from members who have set their car up for autocross.

Suggested AutoX suspension?

Hey Guys, I know it's been a while... So I picked up a 9C1 that I plan to AutoX with next summer and am looking for the most tried and true setup you've managed to put together. It will be a daily on the street, too, on street tires. I will swap over to dedicated race tires for the track...

www.impalassforum.com

BMR vs UMI Rear LCAs (with Roto-Joint modifier)

Planning out winter projects for my '93 Roadmaster Wagon. The rear LCAs are on the list of stuff to replace. Trying to settle on a setup and place an order. Also wanting to add a rear swaybar, so that's a consideration. I'm currently debating between the BMR extended LCA, or the UMI boxed LCA...

www.impalassforum.com

My car has a mismatch of stuff since I'm finding everything off marketplace lol. BMR front bar for 50 bucks, UMI boxed rears for 60, belltech rear bar for like 150. Don't seem to have issues with the different bar setup but if I can get my hands on a rear BMR bar for cheap I will swap it in.

 

[Caddyshack95]

Very helpful link.... Some different opinions in there... Also saw a thread regarding a sway bar brace (looks like for the front).

Where in the world did you find all that stuff so cheap?? I want in on those deals!

These look interesting too, although probably not needed with my setup: 1978-1996 GM B-Body Lower Control Arm Relocation Brackets - UMI Performance Inc.


Also came across this front sway bar brace, which I read about in a thread and @Marky Dissod has mentioned to me: camaro,trans am chassis, 3 way sub frame connectors, 2nd gen frame
Are there any rear braces like this that work with the sway bar? I've seen Buick bars, but then I would have to weld a bar in there (could be done, no skills/tools for it).


So it seems like people DON'T like the all poly setup like I mentioned. Someone in that thread mentioned doing 1 roto joint and 1 poly and then @95wagon has 2 rotos. I'm looking to keep the car nice and quiet inside and not affect my suspension over bumps at all. Stiffening everything up in turns is the goal. UMI makes 1 and 2 roto joint LCAs... Have you had any issues using 2 and keeping the suspension soft (I know it wasn't your goal when installed) and quiet?


The F body brace would fit on our vehicles, it seems and would be a good setup with an aftermarket front brace, especially BMR (thick).



So I guess I am back to all poly is a bad idea. 1 Roto or 2??

 

[Caddyshack95]

delete. duplicated

 

[green hose]

I have been looking at Lower control arms and sway bars to try and control some of the body roll and rear end noise in my car. I have FE2 suspension (OEM) and was looking at putting beefier rear and front sway bars in the vehicle. Read on some old forum posts that a fat rear bar will likely crack the original lower control arms so now I am looking at those as well.

UMI seems to be a great place to get LCAs from... I did see that new POLY bushes will make the car ride stiff compared to the OEM rubber ones. Is this the case? I'm looking to keep the ride as squishy as possible, but remove some sway and roll in turns/corners.

Anyone have any experience with the standard UMI bars? What about the Roto joints? Would those make the car ride more smoothly compared to 2 POLY bushings? Links below to see what I am talking about. The Roto joints look really interesting, but can't find much about just a streetable car that's driven gently most of the time.

UMI Performance 3615 - UMI Boxed Lower Control Arms - GM B-Body

UMI Performance UMI Boxed Lower Control Arms - GM B-Body - 3615

www.lmperformance.com

1978-1996 GM B-Body Boxed Rear Lower Control Arms- Poly/Roto-Joint - UMI Performance Inc.

UMI’s boxed lower control arms utilize our Roto-Joint technology for a bind free performance and quiet comfortable ride quality. The

www.umiperformance.com

Also, it's been recommended that I check out BMR sway bars - their rear bar is fat and should really control the back end pretty well. Front bar is smaller, but the set would probably even the car out well (replace both).

Free Shipping on all BMR Suspension packages!

Leader in High Performance Suspension and Chassis Products For American Muscle Vehicles.

www.bmrsuspension.com

Thanks for your thoughtful advice!

3CFAB with upper adjustable control arm,the poly bush squeak big time.

 

[Caddyshack95]

View attachment 200172 3CFAB with upper adjustable control arm,the poly bush squeak big time.

So avoid the all poly bushing... What about 1 poly and 1 roto or 2 roto?

 

[green hose]

I was warned(but i didn't listen haha)about polyurethane bush.but they do operate good,3Cfab CA have grease zirts on the pins,but it doesn't quell the noise at all,i am thinking of just letting them go dry.l will go butyl rubber next time.

 

[Fred Kiehl]

I have poly bushings in the front of my wagon, They are quiet, and do not seem overly harsh. I greased them before installing. I put rubber ones in the back in an attempt to make launches a little softer. I do not know if there are any benefits to doing that.

 

[Caddyshack95]

I have poly bushings in the front of my wagon, They are quiet, and do not seem overly harsh. I greased them before installing. I put rubber ones in the back in an attempt to make launches a little softer. I do not know if there are any benefits to doing that.

Thank you. Poly bushings on the front sway bar?

I'm concerned about the harshness as mentioned and noise. Do you have any experience with Roto joints?

 

[toonwarrior]

I got poly bushings on the front no squeaking, I think I have poly's in the rear? Didn't actually check when I installed but no noise there. UMI LCA's not sure what model but not the one with the roto's.

That being said I feel like the primary reason for a harsh ride would be your spring and shock selection. Is your car lowered? I would think that the sway bar/LCA choices won't affect the harshness of the ride as much unless the bushings are like blown out.

As for the frame stiffening scot has some info on what exactly to do in some older threads here and there, best bet is probably to take his instructions and bring it to a chassis shop since welding is required. I plan on doing that once I finish my t56 swap.

 

[Fred Kiehl]

Thank you. Poly bushings on the front sway bar?

I'm concerned about the harshness as mentioned and noise. Do you have any experience with Roto joints?

Anti-roll bar too.

 

[Marky Dissod]

Are there any rear braces like this that work with the sway bar?

0. Unlike the front frame and front swaybar, the rear sway bar and the rear frame brace are too far apart from each other to interact with each other.
1. A rear frame brace can be a tow hitch, or anything else that reinforces the connection of the rear frame horns.

2. Again, physically and conceptually separate from a tow hitch or any other sort of rear frame brace, consider:
a. Dick Miller Racing Rear Triangulation Braces
b. making the swaybar act between the frame and the axle instead of against the rear trailing arms

 

[Caddyshack95]

Anti-roll bar too.

So like the F body Pro Touring brace I linked above? It's for the front only.

0. Unlike the front frame and front swaybar, the rear sway bar and the rear frame brace are too far apart from each other to interact with each other.
1. A rear frame brace can be a tow hitch, or anything else that reinforces the connection of the rear frame horns.

2. Again, physically and conceptually separate from a tow hitch or any other sort of rear frame brace, consider:
a. Dick Miller Racing Rear Triangulation Braces
b. making the swaybar act between the frame and the axle instead of against the rear trailing arms

Need do look into what scot said about a 1/2 steel pipe... It's linked in one of the threads above; would be an easy fix.

I haven't found a good (read easy) way to attach the swaybar act on the axle.




That said, I was hoping @95wagon would chime in with the double Roto joints on road noise in the cabin and ride quality. I am planning on calling UMI to discuss with them the differences between the various options they have.

 

[Fix Until Broke]

The Crown Victoria/Marauder Rear Sway Bar is a pretty easy setup. SpeedTech has a similar design.

For the front frame brace, my opinion is that the primary direction that you want to stiffen up is vertically. Make it so that when the sway bar/suspension pushes up on one side, those forces get transferred to the other frame rail. Most of the bars that I've seen are strongest side to side with minimal vertical stiffness added. Not that side to side is a bad thing to improve on, but there are minimal side to side forces acting on the frame up by the sway bar. The steering box is there, but the suspension forces are much higher.

The taller/larger the front frame brace can be, the better for increasing the vertical stiffness of the frame.

 

[95wagon]

Although everyone refers to it in regards to sway bar stiffness ( vertical as you say ) the steering box and linkage DO put a lot side to side bending force into the left rail.
Although unit body with bolt in crossmember , my mothers 85 Camaro popped welds and cracked the rail from steering input.
After repairing, I put in the "export brace" as it was called to tie the rails together.
As you say , for a brace to measurably help the frame rails deal with sway bar inputs it would have to be pretty tall.
Or weld in an upper and lower with a triangulation diagonal.
If you can't find triangulation in something, it ain't doin much.
You need to look at something and picture the lines of force ,so to speak.

My brace, its main puroose is the relocate the shorter arm sway bar back for link alignment and to some extent helping with side to side.
I also seam welded the front rails when the new frame went in .

 

[95wagon]

Solid body mounts,and braces from front rails to firewall would do wonders for the sway bar.
Also turn my car into something it is not

 

[Caddyshack95]

@95wagon What is your opinion on the F body touring brace like I linked above? It links the front horns together and the sway bar ties into it?


Also, do do 2 Roto joints sound/feel in the suspension for your LCA? Are they noisier than 2 rubber pushing or 2 poly bushings?

 

[Caddyshack95]

I have poly bushings in the front of my wagon, They are quiet, and do not seem overly harsh. I greased them before installing. I put rubber ones in the back in an attempt to make launches a little softer. I do not know if there are any benefits to doing that.

I spoke to UMI on the phone and the gent was very helpful. He said that the all poly setup as long as they are greased properly (both sides of the bushing) and the zerk joint, they should not make any noise.

My 25 year old rubber bushings are almost certainly shot for the LCA.... That said, the poly will be harder than rubber. You think I won't even be able to tell a difference in stiffness of ride quality with the new poly arms/bushings?

All I am seeing are benefits for these stiffer arms... correct?

 

[91ss]

Having gone to poly lowers on the 91, I can say, it's subtly different for different road conditions than rubber. For slow moving up down dips, they actually feel softer as there is no bushing twist to add 'spring rate'. Other conditions like pot holes where the tire is also jarred rearward during the impact, they feel more harsh. So really depends on what you roads are like where you live. Same setup maybe be horrible one place and perfect somewhere else.

 

[Caddylack]

Considering what I know about your goals, be careful with poly bushings.

If you want that soft Caddy feel, I would probably only go poly on the sway bar bushings and end links. For the rest of the suspension, rubber will be fine.

Definitely +1 on the front frame brace. No downside.