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Every time the tires break loose instead of 'hooking', the transmission breathes a sigh of relief.
That I understand.
But I was under the impression that more rear axle helped a transmission live longer ... ?
LSA blown LSX (return of the 11 year burden)
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That I understand.
But I was under the impression that more rear axle helped a transmission live longer ... ?
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They do. But he has other issues he needs to address.
As far as the spinning issue, have you looked into adjustable shocks? You could improve the weight transfer by adjusting the shock compression and rebound settings at the strip, and then resetting them back to street mode for the rest of the time.
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4,854 Posts
I combined a few things I shouldn't have; let me clarify:
- On a stock vehicle with a factory transmission with marginal line pressure, more torque multiplication lessens the load on the clutches during the shift and the steady state pressure required to keep the clutches from slipping when not shifting, so yes.
- On this vehicle, with a properly built transmission with sufficient line pressure, the new threat is shock loading when the tires regain traction. This is why I made my comment about street tires.
- As to gear ratio, the more torque the engine puts out, the less rear axle multiplication needed for the same torque at the wheels. And if tires are still your limitation, an easy way to help the tires is to have less rear axle ratio. In this car's case, with such prodigious torque available, even stock 3.08s would be plenty.
Thanks for all the input guys. I'll try to answer a few of the questions.
As far as the spin goes, I definitely didn't set the car up for 1/4 mile racing. Stiff all around, stiff sway bars, adjustable coil overs but they aren't adjusted for weight transfer. With that said, I don't think much will help on the street with this car. It's a lot of power, a lot of violent/quick hitting torque with the way the LSA makes boost (feels like a nitrous car) and the 345's aren't known to be the stickiest drag radial on the market. I'm using them because they are very street friendly and hook better than any summer tire would, but it's no ET street R or Hoosier DOT. Then again I had Hoosier DOT's on the car too and couldn't get those to hook below 40mph or so and that was before I added some boost with the lower pulley swap LOL The car stays very straight though, it's very controllable when spinning so I'm really happy about that. On a prepped track I think it'll be OK but I haven't had the opportunity.
As far as previous trans failure, this was a performabuilt level 3. It had just about every sprag, servo and any other upgrade you could imagine. The pin looked pretty beat up to me on the contact end but I doubt that could have made the clearance difference I was seeing. I needed to space it with .125 worth of washers to get clearance within spec. Performabuilt uses their own custom billet servos, seemed to me like it was either machined wrong. As far as the sprag goes, they told me there really isn't too much that can be done to avoid it on a heavy car with a lot of power which is why they warranty them out when they fail. Spinning tires is usually a good thing for a transmission, but spinning big, sticky tires that suddenly heat up and hook at high wheel speeds under a big heavy car is probably worse on a trans, I would imagine, than a car consistently hooking up from dig on a prepped track.
Having the trans in D is SUPPOSED to help protect the overdrive sprag, and I could have sworn I did have it in D when the sprag rolled. Not something I won't still have to worry about with the 80e as they can be prone to sprag failures as well if you punch it while in OD and the overrun clutch isn't applied but at least there should be a lot less chance of other failures like 3-4 clutch packs.
As far as the 6l80/90 goes, I would have loved to. That was really my original goal. My tuner swears he has stock 6l80e's living behind CTSV's trapping in the mid 140's but it's too much of a gamble for me running a stock one. You see many that don't last a single track day at 700whp even with great tuners. Built ones are very pricey. Cutting the tunnel is something I can and would do, but I'm balls deep in another project and didn't expect a big setback with the SS. Really don't want to take on more work or potentially miss the whole season with the time doing the tunnel right would take me. Plus, I like the peace of mind I get with the 80e. I know they are about the strongest trans out there when built up right, and if something ever DOES break, it won't cost me an arm and a leg to refresh. 80e is stronger, cheaper and easier. Would love the .67 OD and 6 gears but just not worth the trade off for me right now.
I'm fairly sure I will be swapping to 3.42's when I get the time, maybe in the winter. I'll probably ride this season out with 3.73's and see if i'm happy but I don't think I need them, don't think they do me any favors and don't think they'll be very nice on the highway with the .75 OD. I actually think 3.23's might be best, but just a little worried that the car might feel heavier when doing very light throttle out of boost driving. 3.42's will put me back where I would have been with 3.73's and the 4l60e, which wasn't ideal for me on the highway with the short tires, but was totally doable.
I'll keep you guys updated. Should be getting the converter back from Circle D and the new trans in a week or so. Could probably get this all up and running within 2 weeks depending on my days off but my tuner is telling me he is booked until late november now
. CAN'T miss another season with this car, and this tuner has been the best I have found (and i've been through a few) so I think i'm going to have to beg and plead a bit lol.
As far as selling it, never! . Truthfully, nobody would want this car for a few reasons. For one, the body is pretty rough and probably a little tweaked up from a prior accident. I should have just rolled my chassis/drivetrain under a clean body but i'm a sentimental guy. Going to be a lot of work to make this car look great and may never be "perfect".
Second, it's clearly cursed. I've just kind of learned to accept that it's the burden I was born to carry, but I wouldn't wish this burden on anyone.
As far as the spin goes, I definitely didn't set the car up for 1/4 mile racing. Stiff all around, stiff sway bars, adjustable coil overs but they aren't adjusted for weight transfer. With that said, I don't think much will help on the street with this car. It's a lot of power, a lot of violent/quick hitting torque with the way the LSA makes boost (feels like a nitrous car) and the 345's aren't known to be the stickiest drag radial on the market. I'm using them because they are very street friendly and hook better than any summer tire would, but it's no ET street R or Hoosier DOT. Then again I had Hoosier DOT's on the car too and couldn't get those to hook below 40mph or so and that was before I added some boost with the lower pulley swap LOL The car stays very straight though, it's very controllable when spinning so I'm really happy about that. On a prepped track I think it'll be OK but I haven't had the opportunity.
As far as previous trans failure, this was a performabuilt level 3. It had just about every sprag, servo and any other upgrade you could imagine. The pin looked pretty beat up to me on the contact end but I doubt that could have made the clearance difference I was seeing. I needed to space it with .125 worth of washers to get clearance within spec. Performabuilt uses their own custom billet servos, seemed to me like it was either machined wrong. As far as the sprag goes, they told me there really isn't too much that can be done to avoid it on a heavy car with a lot of power which is why they warranty them out when they fail. Spinning tires is usually a good thing for a transmission, but spinning big, sticky tires that suddenly heat up and hook at high wheel speeds under a big heavy car is probably worse on a trans, I would imagine, than a car consistently hooking up from dig on a prepped track.
Having the trans in D is SUPPOSED to help protect the overdrive sprag, and I could have sworn I did have it in D when the sprag rolled. Not something I won't still have to worry about with the 80e as they can be prone to sprag failures as well if you punch it while in OD and the overrun clutch isn't applied but at least there should be a lot less chance of other failures like 3-4 clutch packs.
As far as the 6l80/90 goes, I would have loved to. That was really my original goal. My tuner swears he has stock 6l80e's living behind CTSV's trapping in the mid 140's but it's too much of a gamble for me running a stock one. You see many that don't last a single track day at 700whp even with great tuners. Built ones are very pricey. Cutting the tunnel is something I can and would do, but I'm balls deep in another project and didn't expect a big setback with the SS. Really don't want to take on more work or potentially miss the whole season with the time doing the tunnel right would take me. Plus, I like the peace of mind I get with the 80e. I know they are about the strongest trans out there when built up right, and if something ever DOES break, it won't cost me an arm and a leg to refresh. 80e is stronger, cheaper and easier. Would love the .67 OD and 6 gears but just not worth the trade off for me right now.
I'm fairly sure I will be swapping to 3.42's when I get the time, maybe in the winter. I'll probably ride this season out with 3.73's and see if i'm happy but I don't think I need them, don't think they do me any favors and don't think they'll be very nice on the highway with the .75 OD. I actually think 3.23's might be best, but just a little worried that the car might feel heavier when doing very light throttle out of boost driving. 3.42's will put me back where I would have been with 3.73's and the 4l60e, which wasn't ideal for me on the highway with the short tires, but was totally doable.
I'll keep you guys updated. Should be getting the converter back from Circle D and the new trans in a week or so. Could probably get this all up and running within 2 weeks depending on my days off but my tuner is telling me he is booked until late november now
. CAN'T miss another season with this car, and this tuner has been the best I have found (and i've been through a few) so I think i'm going to have to beg and plead a bit lol.As far as selling it, never! . Truthfully, nobody would want this car for a few reasons. For one, the body is pretty rough and probably a little tweaked up from a prior accident. I should have just rolled my chassis/drivetrain under a clean body but i'm a sentimental guy. Going to be a lot of work to make this car look great and may never be "perfect".
Second, it's clearly cursed. I've just kind of learned to accept that it's the burden I was born to carry, but I wouldn't wish this burden on anyone.
To date, this is still the only time i've made it to the "track" since I fired it up two years ago.
This was with the old pulley setup and a remote tune . It's a whole other animal now on with the 9.06 lower (picked up a little over 100rwhp).
This was a completely unprepared abandoned runway that Grumman used to fly F14's on. Hasn't been used in decades and was slick as ice from water erosion on the concrete and dust blowing across from the open fields. my friend's dead consistent high 12' second T/A couldn't make it out of the 14's LOL. It was about 85 degrees and I was idling in the staging lanes for over 40 minutes. Poorly run event, but it was actually nice to put my cooling system to the test.
I kept about 80lbs of tools strapped down in a tote in the trunk for ballast.. I rolled off gently, tried to get into it but just blew the tires off, backed off, rolled into it gently again and smoked the tires down the track at about 50% throttle until I hit the top of 2nd and trans wouldn't shift. The tuner I had at this point was having a lot of trouble with the shift points/shift timing. Still ran a [email protected]
I made some tweaks myself to try to get one more pass in. After messing with the shift points a bit, I was able to make one more pass but the car was blowing the tires off the whole track. Going sideways at 100mph is a butt clenching experience, but at least I knew I had nothing but open field around me LOL. Ended up running a [email protected], basically half throttle through the 1/8th and then pedaling hard through the 1/4. Unfortunately, my phone shut off before the pass. Had a blast though, I was racing a bolt ons PPV that had me through the 1/8th when I was struggling to give it more than 1/2 throttle. When I finally started getting a little traction, I blew by him so fast he told me it was like a black title wave went by him.
Obviously nowhere near where I wanted the car to be, but can't blame the car for the poor track and it still puts a huge smile on my face that the car still ran a 13.5 never coming out of 2nd gear and coasting across the traps.
This was with the old pulley setup and a remote tune . It's a whole other animal now on with the 9.06 lower (picked up a little over 100rwhp).
This was a completely unprepared abandoned runway that Grumman used to fly F14's on. Hasn't been used in decades and was slick as ice from water erosion on the concrete and dust blowing across from the open fields. my friend's dead consistent high 12' second T/A couldn't make it out of the 14's LOL. It was about 85 degrees and I was idling in the staging lanes for over 40 minutes. Poorly run event, but it was actually nice to put my cooling system to the test.
I kept about 80lbs of tools strapped down in a tote in the trunk for ballast.. I rolled off gently, tried to get into it but just blew the tires off, backed off, rolled into it gently again and smoked the tires down the track at about 50% throttle until I hit the top of 2nd and trans wouldn't shift. The tuner I had at this point was having a lot of trouble with the shift points/shift timing. Still ran a [email protected]
I made some tweaks myself to try to get one more pass in. After messing with the shift points a bit, I was able to make one more pass but the car was blowing the tires off the whole track. Going sideways at 100mph is a butt clenching experience, but at least I knew I had nothing but open field around me LOL. Ended up running a [email protected], basically half throttle through the 1/8th and then pedaling hard through the 1/4. Unfortunately, my phone shut off before the pass. Had a blast though, I was racing a bolt ons PPV that had me through the 1/8th when I was struggling to give it more than 1/2 throttle. When I finally started getting a little traction, I blew by him so fast he told me it was like a black title wave went by him.
Obviously nowhere near where I wanted the car to be, but can't blame the car for the poor track and it still puts a huge smile on my face that the car still ran a 13.5 never coming out of 2nd gear and coasting across the traps.
This was also with the old pulley/tune combo. drag radials at about 20PSI, warmed up, I think it was about 70 degrees out. Not a prepped track of course, just having a little fun in an empty industrial park trying get a quick AFR log. Really rarely mess around on the street, which is why i'm looking forward to getting the car all ironed out because we don't have a track within a 2.5 hour span so just trying to collect some data for tuning means you have to find someplace safe to give it a test hit
youtube.com
Impala ss - inside car launch (no traction). Impala ss burnout.
Quick launch video of my LSX/LSA swapped 96 impala SS not getting any traction from the 345/40/17 toyo drag radials. 700whp LSX b15 376Jokerz ported LSAZL1...
youtube.com
I hope so LOL. I think I probably went too far swapping the pulley after that race, but I noticed a chip in my factory balancer and wanted to replace it with an ATI so it made sense to upgrade. My goal was to scrape high 10's. He says he has a few CTSV's making the same power on his dyno @4400lbs running high 9's which kind of blew me away.
Don't think the engine will have any issues, people push these B15s a lot further. Valvetrain is a little iffy, it pulled till 7k on the dyno but we set the shift points closer to 6700 to be on the safe side. I think I may even back it down lower.
Biggest concern is heat from the blower, the aggressive pulley combo makes it somewhat of a one trick pony. Great for a 1/4 mile pull but I don't think my trunk tank is enough to keep IAT's in check for a half mile race and definitely won't be any good on a road course.
I think I'm going to pick up a 2.75 upper and save another tune file for it and maybe keep that as a "detuned" setup for the car in case I ever want to take it on a road course. Should still make just short of 600whp but would generate far less heat in the blower, much easier to control and save the blower a lot of wear and tear. May even be nice on the street.
The car runs/idles/drives like a stock car when cruising, it's beautiful. Really no need for 700rwhp hp though, all it does is break stuff, generate heat and put excessive wear on everything.
Interchillers are cool but useless on a road course without removing the RPM cutoff for the AC clutch and potentially grenading AC compressors. IATS climb so fast at WOT and take a bit to recover that there's no way the current setup would be able to handle a long WOT straight and continue around the track without melting the blower down. Meth/water injection would be a big help, but I think the real answer is just backing the boost down. No need for all of it when not on the drag track anyway.
Sometimes I read this build and think I should do a supercharged LS3 instead of a fatty stroker lol
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Just for the supercharger whine I would go this route if I were to start touching the motor 😳
The new lower gives it even more whine, it’s also a ported blower. Don’t have too much video of the new lower with the good tune since I blew the 60e up twice shortly after but I do have this; scaring the crap out of a buddy with a quick rolling burnout lol
Do it! The LSA blowers went up in price but can still be had for cheaper than any procharger/whipple/Maggy setup. It’s the best part of the build to me. Trouble free, allows you to make insane power with a setup that feels stock when cruising. No need for big cams or big stalls (although I’m leaving a lot on the table with my ls7 cam, since it’s not really a PD friendly one). A little bit of boost goes a long way. If I was smart, I’d probably just put 6-7 psi through it just for that added fun of boost and less of the heartache from breaking driveline parts lol. Also comes a point where fuel systems get more complex, dual pumps and all that and I’m passed that point on e85.
Got the 80E up and running!
Accurate Transmission in New Haven CT built the trans
Had my circle D 10" 3200 converter rebuilt for an 80e. Also had them add a multi-disk lockup this time. Didn't do it the first time because the little bit of RWHP/MPH it would gain didn't seem worth it, but this time around i'm realizing locking up the converter at WOT will help keep trans temps down if I ever try to do something other than drag racing, like a road course.
Clear Image Automotive came in clutch as always with the 80e crossmember
I ditched my stock shift cable a long time ago since it just seemed stupid to pay the prices guys are charging for a 20 year old cable that could snap at any moment. I rigged a B&M cable up to the stock shifter and it works great. I needed to make some modifications to make the B&M 80e linkage work with the 3 pedals LS swap headers. When I bought their headers, I was the first one to ever try them on an auto car and they built theirs around a 6 speed car thinking it would be the same. The headers fit amazing but the inboard 02 bung on the passenger side hit the trans pan so I had to weld a new bung on the outside. The D side fit, and it still cleared the pan on the 80e, but it ended up blocking the shift lever. Luckily, these headers fit so wellI I was able to pull the header in 15 minutes right out the bottom and TIG weld a new bung to the outside. I was in a rush so it's a little sloppy and I should have paid more attention because I ended up welding the bung in at about a 90 degree angle when I really wanted more of a 45, but should work fine.
Also welded the tab for the shift cable bracket to be on the inboard side of the shift lever to move the whole linkage in to clear the primary. Works/fits great now. Not quite as tight of a fit as it looks in the pics.
Everything else about the swap went very smoothly. Just had to grind off the "ears" on both sides of the trans, dent the floor a tiny bit where the fittings install, wire in an input speed sensor and it basically installed itself.
Took it for a ride and it feels great. Converter lockup has to be cleaned up a bit as the new multi disk locks with a pretty substantial punch. We also pulled a bunch of timing out of the car trying to figure out a fuel trim issue I was having causing the old tune to fall out of calibration after I left the tuner's shop. Think I figured it out. The Magnafuel boost ref FPR seems to be a bit sticky when adjusting. I found that you have to shut the car off, start it up again then check it again and that seems to get the diaphragm moving. After that it stays rock steady. When I adjusted for the last tune, it seemed to have walked a bit after I trailered the car home and threw the tune out of scale.
In my rush trying to get this thing up and running I forgot to paint the trans, pan etc... welding work got a little sloppy but as long as it all works, i'm happy. Hopefully won't have to go back under to look at it all again so soon (or as often) LOL
Accurate Transmission in New Haven CT built the trans
Had my circle D 10" 3200 converter rebuilt for an 80e. Also had them add a multi-disk lockup this time. Didn't do it the first time because the little bit of RWHP/MPH it would gain didn't seem worth it, but this time around i'm realizing locking up the converter at WOT will help keep trans temps down if I ever try to do something other than drag racing, like a road course.
Clear Image Automotive came in clutch as always with the 80e crossmember
I ditched my stock shift cable a long time ago since it just seemed stupid to pay the prices guys are charging for a 20 year old cable that could snap at any moment. I rigged a B&M cable up to the stock shifter and it works great. I needed to make some modifications to make the B&M 80e linkage work with the 3 pedals LS swap headers. When I bought their headers, I was the first one to ever try them on an auto car and they built theirs around a 6 speed car thinking it would be the same. The headers fit amazing but the inboard 02 bung on the passenger side hit the trans pan so I had to weld a new bung on the outside. The D side fit, and it still cleared the pan on the 80e, but it ended up blocking the shift lever. Luckily, these headers fit so wellI I was able to pull the header in 15 minutes right out the bottom and TIG weld a new bung to the outside. I was in a rush so it's a little sloppy and I should have paid more attention because I ended up welding the bung in at about a 90 degree angle when I really wanted more of a 45, but should work fine.
Also welded the tab for the shift cable bracket to be on the inboard side of the shift lever to move the whole linkage in to clear the primary. Works/fits great now. Not quite as tight of a fit as it looks in the pics.
Everything else about the swap went very smoothly. Just had to grind off the "ears" on both sides of the trans, dent the floor a tiny bit where the fittings install, wire in an input speed sensor and it basically installed itself.
Took it for a ride and it feels great. Converter lockup has to be cleaned up a bit as the new multi disk locks with a pretty substantial punch. We also pulled a bunch of timing out of the car trying to figure out a fuel trim issue I was having causing the old tune to fall out of calibration after I left the tuner's shop. Think I figured it out. The Magnafuel boost ref FPR seems to be a bit sticky when adjusting. I found that you have to shut the car off, start it up again then check it again and that seems to get the diaphragm moving. After that it stays rock steady. When I adjusted for the last tune, it seemed to have walked a bit after I trailered the car home and threw the tune out of scale.
In my rush trying to get this thing up and running I forgot to paint the trans, pan etc... welding work got a little sloppy but as long as it all works, i'm happy. Hopefully won't have to go back under to look at it all again so soon (or as often) LOL
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I'd love to but I don't think it'll be ready
Still have to work on the tune, have a lot of timing backed out now while I make sure the fuel trims/fuel pressure stay consistent this time. . When LTFT's creeped last time, I got into it on the test hit where I blew the trans and AFR's were in the 12.1 range at WOT. I was just about to let off when I realized how lean it was getting and a millisecond before I let off is when the cabin filled with smoke. I was sure I leaned out and torched some pistons, but turns out it was the 3-4 clutch smoking and blowing trans fluid out the overflow onto the headers lol. Never been so relieved to have blown a transmission before LOL Just want to make sure nothing is hurt and everything is working well before racing it. Hopefully it can happen before the season ends though.
What gas pedal are you running? I know you are on a DBW set up but I never saw anything in this thread about which pedal and how you bolted it in.
LOL! It's a monstrosity! If I remember correctly, I used an LSA CTSV pedal (2009-2012 IIRC). I cut the end of the factory pedal lever off and welded a tab onto the end then bolted that to the end of the CTSV pedal lever so that the angle/position was the same as the factory pedal. I then welded the DBW pedal mount to the the inside of the factory pedal mount so it bolted into the same place, but I had to add some additional mounting brackets to make it all stable. This is where I got really carried away for some reason and it ended up like 5lbs and sturdy enough to be used as a jack stand.
If I did it again I'd do it like I did my 70 challenger and just weld up a sheet metal box for it and mount the box to the firewall. Much cleaner. lol
Found some pics on my phone. I'd take a better pic of the completed project but my car is out of state right now with my tuner.
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Figured i'd throw an update out there. winter sucks, as always, but spring is looking promising.
Found an issue with the new FPR's diaphragm that was causing the fluctuating base pressures and AFR issues on decel. Fixed it and and scrambled trading logs with my tuner to clean up AFR's for my last shot at racing the car this season.
Checked ATCO's website the night before to make sure it was still on, rented a trailer and loaded the car up only to find out the next day the event was cancelled due to cold weather (WTF, there was a high of 60 degrees that day which is about as good as it gets in November).
Since we really rushed it on the tune, I asked my tuner if I could make use of the trailer and bring the car down to him in Jersey since I had already taken the day off anyway. He told me he wouldn't have time to get it on the dyno in November but didn't mind me keeping the car there so he could work on it a little at a time in december, which worked perfect for me since I needed to free up my single car garage for a 70 challenger hellcat swap project that needed to get done over the winter anyway.
Just hope the car hasn't been sitting outside too much, but not like the outside is that nice anyway
Haven't really posted many pics here so figured I'd do that now while nothing is happening over the winter.
Found an issue with the new FPR's diaphragm that was causing the fluctuating base pressures and AFR issues on decel. Fixed it and and scrambled trading logs with my tuner to clean up AFR's for my last shot at racing the car this season.
Checked ATCO's website the night before to make sure it was still on, rented a trailer and loaded the car up only to find out the next day the event was cancelled due to cold weather (WTF, there was a high of 60 degrees that day which is about as good as it gets in November).
Since we really rushed it on the tune, I asked my tuner if I could make use of the trailer and bring the car down to him in Jersey since I had already taken the day off anyway. He told me he wouldn't have time to get it on the dyno in November but didn't mind me keeping the car there so he could work on it a little at a time in december, which worked perfect for me since I needed to free up my single car garage for a 70 challenger hellcat swap project that needed to get done over the winter anyway.
Just hope the car hasn't been sitting outside too much, but not like the outside is that nice anyway
Haven't really posted many pics here so figured I'd do that now while nothing is happening over the winter.
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