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Discussion Starter #1
This is the link to the pics. This install didn't go as smoothly as planned but it worked out. Here's the details.

The old bushings I had were totally shot, and they took longer then planned to remove, airtools rock. The old parts looked like crap when I compared them to the Metco stuff, but i'm sure you all know that. I used 90 degree zerk fittings for the uppers since that made the greasing way easier. The ICM brackets didn't move at all after they were isntalled(there's this lip on the mounting area that makes rotating them back impossible), so welding them up was no problem since they were pretty solid.

First thing I noticed during the test drive was the way the car felt. It was very solid and made you feel the road alot more. I left the rear swaybar off, and I don't think i'll need it, it also went into the dumpster with the old RCAs. The car does not spin as much, so the engineering part of these ICMs is working. The car hooks like it did before I had the converter installed, that should give those who have had a higher stall converter installed a better idea of how good these ICMs work. It just feels strange, but a good strange. I will have to get to the track this coming weekend if they weather holds out to test. Best with the Pilot Sports are low 1.9s, so if I get into the 1.8s, hopefully 1.7s, i'll be very happy. Looks like more suspension tuning for me, but it's always fun to get the car to launch hard on street tires.

Well that's it from here. If the pics don't load up blame Yahoo, and I just uploaded them so it may take an hour or 2 for them to become available. These RCAs and ICMs kick major butt, and it's another mod that done to get me ready for the ECIRS race next month at Cecil County. Next up, 1.6 rockers/springs/pushrods/seals, maybe an electric waterpump if I have time.
 
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Discussion Starter #2
Steve, you don't think a rear bar could possibly help the car hook anymore? Do you have any pictures of the install?
 
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Discussion Starter #3
As far as the bar helping the car hook up, I guess the extra weight might help, but no cars that I have seen that use this type of ICM/RCA setup require the bar to help out during the launch. I can't remember if Joe A. has the sway bar on his car since he runs the same setup last time I checked. I am also not sure if he has stock length RCAs like me since most guys get the extended versions. This setup is just like the SSM lift bars, and none of the G or A body cars I have seen have the rear swaybar installed, and most of them run 1.5-1.4 60' times on small tires.

I can say that they help out more then I imagined with the icy weather we have had since yesterday. The car is alot easier to drive and hooks harder in the crappy weather. I can get on it when I want after the car gets going and not worry about wheelspin in the rain. It also feels better around corcers and alot of the creaking noises I heard before are gone. I guess the ultimate test will be at the track next time I go. I can't wait.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
What is an ICM bracket and what does it do for the car?
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Cool, good luck with it. Keep us posted with how it does at the track. I am interested in instant centers for my car, but I don't think I can give up my rear swaybar...in fact I want a bigger one...I want the car to go around corners more than I want it to hook.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Mike,

I've got the Metco ICM brackets on my car except I have Hotchkis extended arms and the Hotchkis rear bar. Here's a pic from the rear My POS
I'm only cutting 1.7 60' foots :rolleyes:
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Originally posted by Mike454SS:
Steve, you don't think a rear bar could possibly help the car hook anymore? Do you have any pictures of the install?
The only negative side to running with out a rear bar would making sure the car launches straight, but that's nothing a set of air bags can't fix.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
can those intstant centers be used with other control arms? Such as the stock ones, or do you have to modify them..

Matt
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Matt,

They are made to be used with Metco Arms which are thinner than most aftermarlet and stock arms.
I'm not positive, I have never installed a set, but I believe they send washers to make up the difference.


I had to machine the spacers and bushings in the Hotchkis pieces to make them fit the metco ICM brackets.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
BTW, in the newest issue of GMHTP (in the article on Tulsa) there is a half-page pic of Paul's "POS" getting crazy on the road course at Hallett :D . In the pic, you can clearly see how the rear bar hangs down lower with the ICM brackets.

Dads95ss : the brackets change the axle-side mounting point of the lower control arms. This in turn changes the rear suspension geometry (for the better) as far as straight-line launches go. Not sure if it'll help or hurt in the twisties, but suspect it'll help (all other things being equal).....I'm thinking of getting a set to experiment with.

The biggest drivability downside is that your rear swaybar ground clearance is significantly reduced (see Paul's pic).
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Without getting into the is it worth building thing based on quantity and price. Would it be worthwhile to design a swaybar that bends different than stock so as to retain more clearance with the ICM brackets, or would all the extra bends make the bar less effective? I really like the idea of the ICMs but I want a bar too and clearance is an issue for me, that or could I have ICMs seasonally like a removable set, I could not have that low a clearance in winter but summer I could deal with it?
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Steve. I'm glad everything worked out for you. I had the same strange feeling after the SSM lift bars. You can really fell the road. The car also feels like it lifts when you punch it. Street tires and often tirs DR's spin on me because the lifts bars force the tires into the ground so you have to heat the tires up alot. That's why I installed a line lock!!
Even without the rear sway bar the car handles much better after the install. Good luck with them.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
I have a set of BMR control arms, I wonder if I could just flip them over with the holes up and remount swaybar if I made a set of instant center brackets???

Mike
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Mike : that wouldn't work. Problem would be that the bar would be trying to go THRU the axle doing that ;)

Yes, a custom-bent bar solution could be used to get the ground clearance back up. I'm not sure I'd want it (I'd have strength concerns at the big bend in the bar that would be needed) but it could be done.

I'd be more thinking of a rear bar solution like Bill Harper (Navy Lifer) did where the bar is bolted to the axle instead of the control arms.
 
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Discussion Starter #15
I thought the instant center brackets moved the control arms down 2.5".
Wouldn't that give you space between where the axles are now and the axle tube in order to put the sway bar on top of the control arms?
When looking at George's Debskis pictures it looks like it's possible, especially since my control arms are about 1" thinner than the Metco's.


Mike
 
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Discussion Starter #16
Originally posted by buffman:
can those intstant centers be used with other control arms? Such as the stock ones, or do you have to modify them..

Matt
There is a set of ICM brackets at BMR right now. They are fabricating a setup for their own BMR bars for the B bodies. I will be calling them today to see what progress has been made.
 
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Discussion Starter #17
I tried to work with BMR to make that setup but nobody called me up.
I told them to send me 2 pairs of their G body brackets so I could modify one for my car and a second so they could have a template.

???

Mike
 
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