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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone used the Moog CK620168 and CK620169? These are new loaded lower control arms with their premium bushings. Is is better than rebuilding the stock A-arms? I am thinking of a set for my '95 Caprice and also for a '77 Trans Am I am helping my boss with. both cars are going to run ProTouring F-Body tubular uppers with tall upper ball joint.
 

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Problem Solver's work

Has anyone used the Moog CK620168 and CK620169? These are new loaded lower control arms with their premium bushings. Is is better than rebuilding the stock A-arms? I am thinking of a set for my '95 Caprice and also for a '77 Trans Am I am helping my boss with. both cars are going to run ProTouring F-Body tubular uppers with tall upper ball joint.
I have not use these #'s but the problem solver line is very cost effective and functions well. I've replaced bushings with poly when both rebuilding the oem, used and new, but rarely in anything but competition cars. A little much for most folks in a street car but nice if your chasing F-body reflexes and don't mind ride quality degradation. I'd guess the "premium bushings" Moog you quote would be fine.
 

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Im looking at buying these upper and lowers...
CK620158/59 and CK620168/69
These are the "Best" because the use rebuildable ball joint mount A--Arms, greasable Moog3 ball joints, a +1 offset shaft, and polygraphite bushings....
I prefer Moog because of their quality control and reliability.... and these are really well-priced considering that the GM ones are long gone and its tough to beat new parts vs junkyard and substandard chinese knockoffs.... although there are advantages to tubular ones, there is no "extra surprises" with these... everything fits and functions like stock and no issues with the ABS harness flopping around.
 

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Has anyone used the Moog CK620168 and CK620169? These are new loaded lower control arms with their premium bushings. Is is better than rebuilding the stock A-arms?
To me it comes down to Money and Time and Skills....which do you have more of? Lets say new BJ's are $25 and the new Loaded Arms are (for easy Math Sake) $100.....that's about a $75 per side price increase over rebuilding your old arms. So about &150 more total.

Now you will need new bushings and can pick up a set of Poly's for about $75 but this will also give you new bushings to do the upper arms as well. You can then just pick up the tools from a "loan a tool" place and do the replacement of the Bushings and BJ's yourself.

This of course assumes that your original arms are not damaged in any way. You can also clean up and paint your old arms while they are all apart. This is the route I took when rebuilding the front suspension and it took me more time but saved me a good amount of ca$h.
 

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on rockauto.com the lowers are around $73 and uppers around $82 for loaded Moog "problem solver" A arms

Given they are plug & play for the few $ over buying b joints & bushings AND R&R those AND clean/paint the old A arms....My $.02 is buy the Moog loaded arms. Its a time vs $ thing with not much of a gap on the $

If you want poly bushings...than DIY on old arms
 

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I agree 4doorSS, but only if the ones you start with are nice. Im with BallSS... if you live in the rust belt, chances are good that they are pretty well beat after 20+ years of X-mileage, plus combat with salt, calcium chloride, crater-like potholes, frost heaves, dried-out/worn bushings, and ball joint replacements. My experiences with GM's multi-platform-use stamped A-Arms, (here in New England), is that they are pretty durable, but like anything up here, you're miles ahead to rebuild with as many new parts as possible.

Being that the uppers and lowers are shared amongst many other GM platforms, this is the way many people are dealing with their vehicle's front suspension problems...

I stated the bonuses already with the "CK" Problem Solver version: the CK also includes the Problem Solver A-arm bushings, plus a bunch of other Problem Solver extras,... I'm fairly certain the Problem Solver Bushings are also Poly Bushings based on what Moog's own information states:
"Moog Problem Solver bushings are designed to reduce vibration and absorb noise. Advanced thermoplastic bushings absorb vibration and noise and deliver better handling and longer life, while providing the performance of urethane without the 'squeak' normally associated with it. They are not affected by oils, alkalines, ozone or hydrocarbons; can withstand extreme weather conditions; can carry substantial loads; and will not discolor or crack with age."

Whereas the "RK" version is simply better than OEM-Spec, and lacks the several key improvements/parts that Moog added to their "CK" version.
 

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Good points both Brother Al and BallSS. I did miss that the Moog Bushings were now Poly of some sort.

So in addition to cost, this is also an aftermarket replacement part. There have been a lot of discussions lately over the Quality and Fitment of Aftermarket Parts over Genuine GM. Heck even some of the AC Delco stuff has not been getting very good reviews lately. :frown2:

This may or may not be a factor into your decision but one I would consider if my original arms were in "rebuildable condition". however, I would at least consider Moog as a good AM Source over some of the other vendors out there. But even those may not be built to the same material standards used back in the day - i.e. Thicker Metal, better/known fitment of the original, etc. I have found myself either holding onto or sourcing good used parts over replacement due to some of these issues.

Again, assuming yours are still in good shape and the Sway bar mount is not all wallowed out. So along with whatever the extra cost is, it's just another thing to consider if looking at full AM replacement arms.
 

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4DoorSS I'm the same way about Aftermarket parts... I buy old GM NOS/ Lightly-used GM whenever I can. Many aftermarket replacements are low-quality and pretty much complete crap. A lot are purposely made "Different Enough", to avoid any copyright/proprietary conflicts.

Ultimately, we now have a marketplace filled with crap, worse than the junk parts we typically saw in the old J.C. Whitney catalogs "back in the day"... Certain aftermarket parts suppliers still hold onto their Q.C. and it can readily be seen when you look at the parts. Moog (Federal-Mogul) maintains a high level of quality because they rely on their great reputation and engineering savvy to compete against the plethora of cheaper options... thats also why there are so many chinese-fake Moog knockoffs turning up in the parts chain, and why I will pay more at my local NAPA to physically see the part before I buy it. Its also why they manufacture many of the parts used in new vehicles.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I can get the loaded A-arms through work for $70.00. The last time I did this I bought good used lowers then replaced the ball joints and bushings. I also had the arms sand blasted so I could paint them. All of that cost more. At that time I did know these were available through my work for what will end up being less $. I plan on running these new lowers with the Pro Touring F-body tubular uppers with tall ball joints and the F-body brace.
 

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Are you swapping to the "Tall Ball Joint" tubulars to add bigger brakes? Curious if there is some other advantage?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Running the tall upper ball joint effectively makes the spindle "taller". It changes the camber gains
similar to first gen f-body guys using the Guildtread mod. It's not a clearance issue as I am still running the factory rotors and calipers. I think with the Guilstread mod the upper a-arm is mounted lower on the frame to get similar results.
 

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Ah, blast from the past... I remember reading about it as as a kid. Took me a second, its the "Guldstrand Mod", named after the great Dick Guldstrand. Interesting idea for these big beasts at the autocross, but not something Id wanna add to my daily-driven street machine... short term fun, but it instantly caused me to imagine my Wife going too quick around a corner and taking out oncoming traffic with the trunk... just the same, Id be interested to hear how you like it, once its done.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
when I set up my 2-door '77 Impala I used SPC adjustable upper a-arms with the tall Howe Racing ball joint. This made a big difference how the car handled. This car was daily driven when there was no snow. A few years latter I did the front end on my '77 2-door Caprice. Because that one was driven all year I used the the Pro Touring F-body tubular uppers. I was worried about corrosion on the alum. sleeves for the SPC arms. Now I am going through my '95 LT1 Caprice which is driven all year so i am going to use the Pro touring F-body arms. I spoke with Dave at PTFB and he recomended the tall ball joints for his arms as well. I used stock ball joints when I did the '77 Caprice but this time (with the PTFB arms) I am going with the tall ball joint. There is improvement from the arms alone but the taller ball joint makes a difference as well.
 
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