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Discussion Starter #1
Hey All you Car Show Haulics !!

I see there haven't been any new postings since my last !?!? I take it that you are all "Happy" w/the New Class's, Mileage Brake Down's, and the Rules for each !?!?
Any comments !?!? Thats what this Forum is for.

Don't be afraid to ASK ANY Question that you may have.

IF you don't want to Publicly air any, then Please E-M Offline !!
Thanks !!

SS-ya
Larry D.
 
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Discussion Starter #2
Larry-

I read about it in the Impala SScene magazine and was glad to see the classes and breakdowns, without colors involved. It should make things more "fair" and keep folks lightly modded from stomping the bone stockers like mtself when they avoid the hyper-modded types!
 
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Discussion Starter #3
OK, Larry here's aquestion for you.

As a frequent sponsor for a lot of Impala events and a paying attendee for the ones I attend what is the ISSCA official policy in regards to sponsors being in the show for judging and awards.

Case in point, last year at St. Louis, MBA sponsored the event and as an employeee of MBA I did not enter my car. I would have won due to the fact I had the only 94 modified car there.
BUT, I was a registered participant under my name with my own personal car.

I remeber the flap at The Gathering in 98 when the BGC car won and a lot of people were unhappy.
Can I compete with my car, even though we may or not sponsor some portion of the event?

Thanks
 
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Discussion Starter #5
I say let Paul and his 94 BBB compete.His car is awesome :cool: 6 speed and all.I don't have the $$$ to compete with all modified class,but I will be at DREAMAPALOOZA, I would be mad that judges would not be judging cars fairly. Who cares if a sponsor's car wins :rolleyes: The world will not end because JOE BLOW didn't win. :( It's just,everyone should have fun and let the JUDGES make the decision, then deal with it good or bad.If a sponsors car wins, we shouldn't be mad and not buy parts from them for that reason.I've won,lost, and came in last on different occasions.
Just try to improve,or not get so bent out of shape when someone else wins.Sorry I'm not politically all the time,I usually say what's on my mind :D
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Gentlemen,
At Dreamapalooza 2001, we have sufficient confidence in the integrity of the car show judges to give honest opinions of a car's worthiness for an award that we are not inclined to exclude a sponsor's car from showing. In fact, if there were enough sponsors who showed their handiwork, we could even consider an award for "Best Sponsor Submitted Vehicle".
Paul, you are welcome to show at Dreamapalooza 2001 AND to be a sponsor.

Chuck Spera
Dreamapalooza 2001 - co organizer (enforcer)
 
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Discussion Starter #7
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cypher:
Larry-

I read about it in the Impala SScene magazine and was glad to see the classes and breakdowns, without colors involved. It should make things more "fair" and keep folks lightly modded from stomping the bone stockers like mtself when they avoid the hyper-modded types!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Cypher,
Thanks for the reply and I'm glad that you like the Classes, Rules and Mileage breakdowns.
This has been needed for along time.
Believe Me I know exactly where your coming from when You get "Them Thar Trailer Queen's !!" LOL-LOL I'm in the exact same position at SCS, I have 92K on my `95 DGGM Modified and I have to compete against another `95 DGGM Modified"Trailer Queen" that has 13K on it. :( He has beaten me the past 3 years in a row !! All I can do is, "Do My Best" and Try to have it in as Pristine Condition as I can !!
Oh-Well !! LOL-LOL
SS-ya
Larry D.
PS: You just mentioned 2 Mods to your "Bone Stocker" !! LOL-LOL
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Hey PRoz(Paul)

I see no reason why You shouldn't be allowed to Compete in the Car Show.
I have Judged MANY Impala Events and I have always competed in the Car Show. The Only Rule that applies here is,"You CAN'T Judge Your Class" !!
I was at Atlanta when that happened and Yes there were a few unhappy contestants. She also showed again at BG99,BUT, was in the "Concourse Class"!?!? I forget what they called that class. I as well as ISSCA, Welcome You to compete in the Car Show !! I will be holding a Judging Seminar b4 Every ISSCA Sponsored Car Show !!
I will show each Judge How and What to look for when Judging. I Will Instruct MY judges to Judge Each and Every Vehical Equally !! I can only Hope that they do a Great Job and Use Good Judgement in Judging.
I Plan to keep Judging at each show, But, as ISSCA Car Show Head Judge, my main duties is to Oversee and Settle ANY Problems that May arise.

Your Impala will fall into the Modified Class, IF, you have over 19 Visible Mods.
Your Mileage will determine which Modified Driving class you will be in.
Again, Welcome to the Car Show & Good Luck !!

I look forward to SSing your Impala and meeting ya !!

SS-ya in Detroit !!
Larry D.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Hey Chuck,
Thats a Great Idea !!

It would be Nice to have "Product" Sponcers have a vehical there to "SHOW" their "Products" !!
I would like to see a "Product" installed on a vehical rather than seeing it in a catalogue and wondering what it will look like on my car or waiting to see it, hopefully, at a show on someone's vehical.

Lets talk to our Advertising Director at the BoD's meeting in Reno about this.

SS-ya
Larry D.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Chuck & Larry,

Thanks for the responses.


As far as classes go, let me see.
Vortech Blown 355 with a six speed
and more mods than I care to remember and 175K on the clock puts me into Modified Daily driver :)

See you in Detroit.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
80K miles on a 96 Imp, Checkered paint scheme,upgraded stereo componets,Ramit intake system,ATS turnsignals,B Coddington Extreme wheels,---------I think I'm in modified daily driver :cool:
:rolleyes:
 
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Discussion Starter #12
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IHALLA:

I was at Atlanta when that happened and Yes there were a few unhappy contestants. She also showed again at BG99,BUT, was in the "Concourse Class"!?!? I forget what they called that class.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since I was Chairman of both the Impalapalooza at the Gathering in 1998 and Impalapalooza on the Green-II (BG99) in 1999, I can respond to some of your comments. The "Concours Class" as you called it was actually called "Pro Platinum," a name that I coined to designate the "Best of the Best." It was implemented in order to seperate the "Trailer Queen" and other PURE Show Cars from everyone else. Cars like Jim Downum's "anything but Stock" Stock Car, T-Mac's "Presidential Impala," Harvey Clark's "Purpala" (which at the time was not a race car), just to name a few. These cars were for the most part professionally engineered and constructed examples of the Impala SS. Unfortunately, the "Pro Platinum" concept did not get much support and it was dropped just as quickly as it was implemented. In the Pro Platinum Class, Cheryl's BGC car was not competitive and it did not even place.

I still think there is a need for a "Pro Platinum" or "Concours d'Elegance" or whatever you want to call it class of vehicle that is above all of the rest of the cars. To win that class, the car would need to be THE outstanding example of the breed. To pit that class car against even Larry Hall's DGGM daily driver is unfair. And Larry is typically up all night the night before preparing the car for the show judging. I have seen him at shows at 4:00 AM taking the wheels off the car, just to be sure that the wheelwells were cleaned properly.

Getting back to the original topic of whether Paul's POS can be entered into the judging, I would have to agree with Larry that it should be allowed as a private entry.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
OK, here we go. I have talked privately with 2 of the ISSCA Board of Directors about paint modifications and classes. I do not feel that the class breakdown was set up right and the ISSCA BOD doesn't seem likely to make the changes that I feel would be needed to "paint modifications" that I feel would be right. Let me first say that I know I am in the modified class. I am not arguing this on my behalf, but for others that may be somewhat suprised to find themselves in the modified class with Purpala and myself. Navy Lifer told me a line had to be drawn somewhere, I just feel it was drawn in the wrong place.
The following is what I wrote to Larry Hall(IHALLA) concerning paint modifications:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
"Hello Larry,
I am Eric Maxwell from San Diego. I am the Secretary for the new Impala Club of San Diego. I own a 1996 Impala SS that I bought in July 1999. I have a couple of questions about classifications at shows. I have read the breakdowns on the ISSCA website, and I feel that paint modifications were not very clear. The statement that painted pinstripes or "graphics" will automatically bump a car into "Modified class" is vague. Can you clarify "graphics"? If someone removed their sidescript and had it painted on (and that was the only paint change to the car), would that take a car that is otherwise mild-street and put it in modified? I dont think it would be fair to put that car in the same class as "Purpala". What about a color change to another Impala color(black to DCM)? Or color change to a non-Impala color with no graphics (black to red). What about a car with rally stripes? I know of a few with rally stripes that I think would be street class at best. I am not concerned about my car, I already know where it stands (modified). I just feel that the exterior mod issue reguarding paint, be it flames, rally stripes, pinstriping, or sidescripts painted on, needs to be clarified for the benefit of ISSCA members who will be competeing at these shows. Here is a link to my website where you can see my car and my brothers wagon; http://members.home.net/turpitz2000/ . As you can see, What I consider "graphics" is probably much wilder that someone else's definition. Thank you for your time,"
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And this was his response:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
Hey Eric,
Thanks for the Questions !!
"I have read the breakdowns on the ISSCA website, and I feel that paint
modifications were not very clear. The statement that painted pinstripes
or "graphics" will automatically bump a car into "Modified class" is vague.
Can you clarify "graphics"? If someone removed their sidescript and had it
painted on (and that was the only paint change to the car), would that
take a car that is otherwise mild-street and put it in modified? I dont think it
would be fair to put that car in the same class as "Purpala".
Any "Painted On Item" will put in the Modified Class. "Any type of vinyl, tape, or decal graphics/stripes are allowed.
Painted pinstripes or graphics will bump the vehicle to the MODIFIED class." This
includes Side Scripts, or Ralley Stirips, and Pin Stripping. IF they are PAINTED ON. I know this is alot to swallow for such a small item, But,Where do you draw the line !?!? These rules were basically adopted from the Super Chevy Show Events and an accumulation from other Impala Events.
This is basically saying that IF you choose to do Paint Work, you are Modifying
the vehicle to the extent of going to have proffesional help in doing this.
(I know that Some are able to do this themselves, but , Others must pay
have it done.) Again, Where Do You Draw The Line !?!? Now, IF these items were
done in Tape or Vinyl, they can be removed w/o damaging the paint. Graphics
can be Anything, ie., Ralley Stripes, Super Sport Stripes, Flames, Murals,
Impala SS Side Script, Pin Stripping, Logo's, Faces, Special Designs, or
any other design you want to apply to your vehicle. These will be allowed as
long as they are not PAINTED on.
AS far as having to compete against "Purpala", they have as good a chance
as anybody !! We are Judging an "ATTENTION TO DETAIL", Not on Mods. Anyone
can bolt-on any number of mods they want. They Still Must be Clean and Detailed.
You can have as many mods as you want, but IF there Dirty, whats the point
of spending the money to do them. I like seeing a Clean and Well Detailed
car as much as a Highly Modified one. Attention to Detail to me will win
over mods Anytime !! If your vehicle is clean an detailed, this shows me that you are more concerned with the preservation of your vehicle, and spend the extra time
and energy to maintain it in pristine condition. All the Glitter of
Chrome, Billet, or Anodized Items is just "Eye Candy", Yes they help in the looks
of a vehicle, but, they gotta be clean too !! "What about a color change to another Impala color(black to DCM)? Or
color change to a non-Impala color with no graphics (black to red)." It dosen't matter what color you paint you vehicle now. ISSCA isn't breaking the vehicles into a "Color" class anymore. They will fall into
the Year, Mileage, and Modifications class. IF ISSCA were doing a Color Class,
that vehicle would fall into the class as it came from the factory in. Example, Purpala came from the factory BLACK, even though its Purple now, it Still would compete in the year, color class it originally came in, but
now automatically goes into Modified because of the color change. Repainting the
vehical any color is a Major Mod, but still only a single mod, ie., PAINTED
automatically puts it in Modified. How would I know IF the vehicle came Black and was Painted DCM !?!? We wouldn't IF they signed up for the DCM class. We Don't have the time to check out every VIN or Paint Code. This is where we would Trust You to
sign up for the correct color class. Believe Me, IF the color has been
changed, SOMEONE else Knows !! IF You knew that the car was repainted
and they were trying to get into Your class and you had to compete against them,
I feel Sure you would have something to say about it !! LOL-LOL Not too
much goes on in the Impala Community that Someone dosen't know about !! LOL-LOL
"What about a car with rally stripes? I know of a few with rally stripes
that I think would be street class at best."
I hope I covered this above. " I just feel that the exterior mod issue reguarding paint, be it flames,
rally stripes, pinstriping, or sidescripts painted on, needs to be clarified
for the benefit of ISSCA members who will be competeing at these shows."

After re-reading what I stated, I see what you mean here. I ASSumed that most Car Show Enthusiast already know what Graphics mean or consist
of. LOL-LOL I will notify the Webmaster to revise "Graphics" into a more
defined definition or description of. Hows About; "Graphics", The making of drawings, the pictorial representation and
manipulation of data, as used in the production of reproducing any image
displayed in a pictorial form.
I'm NOT trying to be a "Smart Ass" here !! LOL-LOL Is this a better
definition and more understandable description !?!?
PLEASE, LMK what you think or how would you word it !?!? I'll wait for
your reply b4 notifying the WebMaster for revision.
THANKS for the questions and I hope I have answered them.
SS-ya
Larry D. Hall<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I still feel that someone who pinstriped their car 3 years ago (Long before ISSCA was around shouldn't have to be in the same class as Purpala. Oh sure, it might be great for Purpala, but not for the poor guy going up against him. Larry says that each car has an equal chance, well, maybe if this were a perfect world and friction did not exist. But it isn't a perfect world. MINOR paint mods should be allowed in street class with NO penalty. What do the Forum members think? After all, you are the guys that are gonna have to live with these rules.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Let me say that the Super Chevy rules were written over 15 years ago and were written for THREE classes; stock, street and modified. How do I know this? I wrote them. Stock was devoted to the purist; pure stock. Street was for mild modifications and everything else was modified.

Now ISSCA has four classes. Call me bias, but with the four classes available anything less tha a full blown custom paint job should be in the street class. I don't care how you say it, minor paint work CANNOT produce more points than a custom job. NO WAY PERIOD.

If all you are judging is the 'attention to detail' then scrap the class structure all together and just award the "Top Ten" (or whatever number you pick) because mods wouldn't matter.
 
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Discussion Starter #15
Well Put Rick. I guess one of the reasons "paint mods" are all being lumped in to Modified class is the belief that it is not a "bolt on" mod. You have to go to a professional to do it. I wonder how many guys on this forum installed their 3:73's themselves? Very few I'm willing to bet. So if you got "professional help" to put on a set of headers, you would also be automatically in the modified class? The point I'm making is all these so called "bolt on" mods aren't really bolt on at all, and most folks get "professional help" with them. This should not be considered for what class a car is in.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
Hey Eric & Rick,
I know that being put in the "Modified Class" for having simple "pin-stripping,or
ImpalaSS emblems or whatever" is tough to swallow !! "Been There, Done That" too !!

At the Car Show held in the Astrodome, you could get your car professionally "pin-stripped" right there for about $100.00. That 1 simple little Paint Mod helped, Win their class. It was just a simple mod, but they were the only one in their class that had it done, and they won. My point is, It could be an advantage to you in your class too. What about the "other guys" that Don't have "Painted Pin-Stripping" or pin-stripping at all. Is it fair for them to have to compete against you !?!?
You see what I'm trying to say !?!? When you add "Paint", no matter how small, you are Modifying your vehical's paint. This is something that is simple but could be a big advantage to someone over the rest.
Rick, just as you e-mailed me, When I set up these class rules, I Didn't realize that they would someday wind up "bitting me" !! LOL-LOL Well, I guess they have, to some extent, PAINTED on items are Still Painted
on items and will automatically put you in the Modified Class. To keep this from getting all blown out of proportion and trying to say what you can and can't do in
painting on of items in whatever other class, it is just a way to keep this under some sort of control. You know as well as I do that someone will always try an bend the rules to their advantage. This happens everywhere in competition. IF you are competitive,you want to win !! If your not competitive, then why would you even bother to enter a Car Show !?!? Hey, You Started this, not me !! LOL-LOL I'm just trying to keep it simple for everyone, and putting all painted on items in the modified class is the best way to poilce this.
I'm willing to look at any proposial that you or anyone wants to present !!
You know as well as I do that everyones taste is different. Some like simple pin-stripping and some don't. Simple pin-stripping to me is just a single thin line down the body to break the body line. I have seen pin-stripping that has all sorts of fancy ends and lines that go around the door handles or emblems, along every body line and have some sorta figure or charactor at the end or on the back highlighting the "Artist" name. You see what I'm saying about just pin-stripping, It Can be a simple single line to a full blown pin-stripping nightmare !! Where do you draw the line here !?!? You could have several different classes just for pin-stripping !!
Getting professional help in installing headers, gears, engine dress kit, or things like this are still bolt-on's no matter who does it. Because something was professionally installed dosen't put you in "modified", the total number of Mods that you make, no matter how small or what they are is what puts you in a modified class.
I hope this clarifies this and the reasoning behind it.

SS-ya
Larry D.
 
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Discussion Starter #17
2 very large classes have been created.
95 & 96 steet/medium mileage. This is not good, unless you have a high mileage car.
It appears the big winner in all this is the high mileage cars. I guess they finally squeaked enough to get the oil.

Don't fix things that are not broken :confused:
 
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Discussion Starter #18
Larry; are you a politician in your day job? You should be. You say two different things to mean the same thing.

You said:
"PAINTED on items are Still Painted
on items and will automatically put you in the Modified Class."

and then you said:
"the total number of Mods that you make, no matter how small or what they are is what puts you in a modified class."

So if I have painted stripes and chrome OEM wheels, according to your second statement, I have only two mods? But I guess the first statement superceides the second statement or.........?????

And......I think you missed the point. Super Chevy has only three classes where ISSCA has four. You have the resources to be more fair. Certainly a $100 pin stripe job or an $800 rallye stripe job can be more competitive with the $1000+ blower than the $5000 paint job.

OK, consider this a formal proposal and take it to the BOD meeting: scrap the existing set of car show classes and adopt the 'Top Ten' approach.

OK, you started this: change modified to include mild modified. Or a 'Gold' class for full custom paint jobs.

And, BTW, did the BOD just say these are the rules or was it a membership vote? I thought this was our club. Starting to sound like another SoCal club more everyday!

Finally, you said:
"IF you are competitive,you want to win !! If your not competitive, then why would you even bother to enter a Car Show !?!?"

I basically enter shows to have a good time, hang with friends and look at the other cars. If I win something, then my day was even better. BUT, I would have second thoughts about entering a show where I was disadvantaged right from the start. In fact, maybe we all need to reconsider our $40 investment in ISSCA dues, it certainly is looking more and more like NAISSO. When does the store open up?
 
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Discussion Starter #19
Hey Fred,
Well,I guess thats what happens when you Drive your car !! LOL-LOL The miles add up over a period of 6+ years. Looks like I'll be putting over 20K+ on mine THIS year !! There goes my Occasional Driver Class !! LOL-LOL I just turned 92.5K this wknd. on my `95 DGGM, coming back from the HOTSS Cruise, in 2 weeks I go to Dallas for SCS, another 900 miles Round Trip, June, 3000+ miles R/T to Reno, Aug. 3500+ miles R/T to Detroit, then Sept., back to Dallas again for ImpalaFest2001. That will put mine ~100,800. miles, NOT counting any other shows or driving !!
Thats What I Bought It For, To Drive and Enjoy !!
Can't enjoy something that stays in the garage or is trailered to events !! LOL-LOL
SS-ya
Larry D.
 
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Discussion Starter #20
Whoa folks : STOP!!!

I think some folks are REALLY blowing things outta proportion here!

Much like the racing rules (didn't we go thru this discussion last month on the drag racing rules?), you HAVE to set down a baseline somewhere. Otherwise, you have no rules and then where does that put you? An completely open car show with NO CLASSES at all? I'm sure THAT one would be fun for the judges....good luck trying to find judges for a second season of judging :D

Are these rules gonna be 100% perfect? Probably not. Heck, Larry would be the first to admit that.

By the same token, are they set in stone until the end of time? Once again, NO! Heck, we (meaning ALL ISSCA members) SHOULD use the experiences from the 2001 show season to review the rules (racing, car show, etc) at the end of the year and revise them as necessary to better suit us. It's a learning process folks, just because these are the rules NOW doesn't mean they are gonna be the SAME rules exactly in 2010 (or even 2002!).

ISSCA Board Member elections come up this fall for 13 positions (1/region) as per the ISSCA By-laws. Fall 2002, the other 13 postions come up for election (2 year terms). If you are an ISSCA member and want to run for the board, I urge you to strongly consider doing so.

My point is : Larry has done a TON (heck, 2 TONS :D ) of work to come up with a set of car show rules here (not to mention round up judges, get inputs from folks, prepare judging sheets, etc etc). I see folks who are trying to shoot the whole idea down before even giving ONE show to give them a chance, and I personally think that is wrong! Let's try the rules, figure out what works and what doesn't, then go from there.
 
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