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Discussion Starter #1
For all interested checked the ISSCA web-site yesterday and the new ISSCA Car Show rules for 2003 are now posted.

To the ISSCA Leaders BZ, JOB WELL DONE!!!! ;) ;) ;)
 
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Discussion Starter #2
I am not up to my car show judging facts like I should be.


I know there is probably a very simple answer to this but, what is a "visual modification"?

I assume that means things you can see while judging the car? Does that include things that are hard to see, like drive shaft, brake lines, sway bars, or others?

Mike
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Mike : yes and yes (they get mirrors to look).
 
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Discussion Starter #4
So Ed, does my 19 piece Cardboard Fiber dash kit count as 19 mods?

I have another stupid question. My script and body stripe is painted (rather than brushed) and burried under clear. What class do I fall in or do I still have to add up my visual mods?

Just want to make sure I register in the correct class.

Thanks

Edward
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Just to play Devil's Advocate and give Larry something to read when he gets home...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>A sunroof, supercharger, turbocharger, any paint change from other than factory color, any painted on graphics or flames, painted fancy artwork or signatures, and painted or vinyl pinstripes larger than one quarter (1/4) inch in height will automatically “bump” the vehicle into the Modified class. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please note the bold section. If I understand this correctly. When Jon signed our cars with a "paint" pen, he just bumped EVERY car he signed into Modified. :eek:

Larry, if you MAKE me judge this year...
...I want to judge the stock class. :D That Modified class is gonna be HUGE!!! :rolleyes: ;) :D :(
 
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Discussion Starter #6
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>So Ed, does my 19 piece Cardboard Fiber dash kit count as 19 mods? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1 Mod. Any "kit" like that that logically (and using common sense, I know, a dangerous thing to assume sometimes
) goes together is a "mod", not individual "mods".

Now you're understanding a small taste of the kind of headaches that Larry and others are facing in trying to write these rules


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I have another stupid question. My script and body stripe is painted (rather than brushed) and burried under clear. What class do I fall in or do I still have to add up my visual mods?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Paint mods (which this is one) automatically bumps you to modified. Having seen your very clean (and, ummm, "not stock" :D) ride before I suspect it was pretty close to modified regardless
 
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Discussion Starter #7
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AutocroSSer:
Mike : yes and yes (they get mirrors to look).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That makes it easy for me, I don’t have 20 modifications visible or otherwise! Pretty sure I would be in the “Mild Street” category.

As far as mileage, I wasn’t aware there were that many high mileage cars out there. I am in the “Occasional Driver” class.

My goal at an ISSCA car show is pretty simple....not to come in last! :D

Mike
 
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Discussion Starter #8
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ClawSS:
Just to play Devil's Advocate and give Larry something to read when he gets home...

Please note the bold section. If I understand this correctly. When Jon signed our cars with a "paint" pen, he just bumped EVERY car he signed into Modified. :eek:

(
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have got to be F***ing kidding me? That just takes the cake. Who thought that up anyway? Who actually thinks Jon Moss's signature is going to give someone an unfair advantage over a car without one? :rolleyes:
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Just another in a long list of reasons why I think Car shows are utterly worthless!

Whoever thought that "Jon Moss" deal up, should have his nuts chomped off by a laplander.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
The John Moss signature on your trunk lid/dash DOES NOT automaticaly bump you to the modified class. I'm hoping that the "devils advocate" above pointed that out really as a joke instead of being serious.

We went over these rules for about 2 to 3 hours during our quarterly meeting and we worked out some good rules.

If you have a legitimate rule concern bring it up to the committee so we can present it. Best case scenario would be to make a valid point to your Regional Director so that he can present it for you during one of our bi-monthly online meetings or quarterly face to face meeting.

FYI

Mike
 
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Discussion Starter #11
The rule says Signatures. What else could that apply too?
 
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Discussion Starter #12
I have seen some cars where the signature has been included into the outside paint. The signature that most of us get is inside the trunk or on the dash. If you get the signature on the body of the vehicle and have it permananetly finished via clear etc then I can see it being a paint modification like a custom pinstriping job.
Mike
 
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Discussion Starter #13
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 4DRHTRD:
I have seen some cars where the signature has been included into the outside paint.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dale Earnhardt Chevrolet sold (in my understanding) some Impalas with his signature on the outside body panels. I have also heard that a few folks have had Jon sign on the outside of the car. I have to agree that this type of thing would have to be considered in the same way as painted side scripts.

I do have to admit that the first thing I thought of when I saw the "signatures" rule was the Jon Moss and Jim Perkins signatures on my trunk lid. Had to chew on if for a bit until I thought of what Mike pointed out.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Hey guys
Well they say 3rd Time is the Charm, lets SSee IF this goes through THIS Time !?!?

Ok...Let me 1st say, No Question is a Stupid Question !! Thats what this Forum is here for, to ask questions and to help you learn from others.


Mike, Any Modification that you can see is a Visual Mod. Example...You can see the Front Swaybar through the engine bay as its just below the radiator, the Exhaust is visable thru the rear wheelwells, and the Lower Control Arms are visable thru the wheel. NON-Visable Mods would be like the Driveshaft, Exhaust "X" Pipe, or changed gear ratio or posi unit. IF and when ISSCA starts using Mirrors then Yes, You had better count them as Mods !! Since ISSCA Dosen't judge the undercarriage, these are kinda "Freebee's" as far as counting them as a Mod.
Edward, On the Dash "Kit", This is counted as a Single Mod because You bought it as a "KIT." The same goes for say Aftermarket Spark Plug Wires, or even Chrome/Billet Valve covers, they came as a "Set or Pair."
Now, if you buy say the Throttle body "Plate", this is only 1 piece, thus (1)single Mod, Now, IF you bought a new BBK Throttle Body(1mod) and added a Different Throttle body Plate(1), then you would count them as 2 Mods.
Now as for Your PAINTED-On Body Strip and Side Script, Yes, these would put you in the Modified Class, IF these were Vinyl Tape then, No, they wouldn't put you in Modified. Since Your Now in Modified, the amount of Other Mods don't really matter any more.
The Painted-On Subject has opened several cans of worms and Eric and I had several Long conversations about this a couple years ago.
Simple Painted-On PINSTRIPPING is allowed as long as it is no wider than 1/4" and has Plain Ends w/o any Fancy Artwork or Signature attached to the Ends.
Chris, Playing Devils Advocate has brought up a very good question here.
In the phrase "Painted Fancy Artwork or Signatures", this is in referance to the Plain Ends of Pinstripping and Not to the Paint Pencil Signature of "Jon Moss" !! The wording could be a little clearer, here, I guess !?!?
Jon's Signature has never been in question as to if its a Mod or not. I agree with Eric and it isn't something that will be an advantage to having or not. Now, having the Jon Moss Signature Name Plate that replaces the ImpalaSS above the radio, yes this Is a Mod. Having Jon's Signature on your ImpalaSS is an Honor.
You can argue this til your blue in the face, but as far as having a Jon Moss Signature on Your Vehicle, it will Not be counted as a Mod. This is another "Freebee" like Window Tinting. Window Tinting was about a 30 minute discussion by the BoD's and in the end was voted on as it Not being a Mod in any class, with the exception. Window Tinting Must be of (1)One Color only, or it will then be counted as a Mod. Example...You have Limo Tint in the Rear Windows and Light colored window tint on the Driver/Passanger windows, then Yes, this would be a Mod. As long as ALL the the windows are the Same Tint and/or Color, the Window Tinting will not be counted as a Mod.

Please Remember Folks, these are Daily Driven Street Vehicles and Not Professional Show Cars !! ISSCA Car Shows are suppose to be Fun and spark Friendly Competition amoung Friends and Not a "Cut Throat Competition !!" They are for having Fun and Sharing Idea's on Many Different ways to Modify our beloved ImpalaSS or B-Bodies !!
If you get right down to the bottom of it, all 3 Year ImpalaSS's are the SAME Vehicle, with each of the 3 years having only a couple Different Mods to set That year off from another.
Oh and, Yes, Mike, You will be surprised as to how many ImpalaSS's have well over 100K miles on them and there are Several Daily Drivers out there pushing 250K Miles !!

When You have a "Big Fast Car" with "Room to Zoom" and It "Ride's like a Cadalliac and Run's like a Vette", you can SSee, Why they are Daily DRIVEN !!
 
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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for the answers Larry. I was being a bit facetious in my questioning since I knew you had nothing better to do than answer inquiries about the Car Show Rules. :D

I also knew that they didn't count his sig., but as you say the wording must be correct or some yahoo like me may call for an interpretation during a show and just ruin your day in the sun. :D

Have a great day.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks Ed! Where would we be without you? .....let's not find out.

Larry, thank you for clearing that up for me. Modified it is.

I agree, for me the real fun is the preperation and being surrounded by people that enjoy the same thing I do. And if by some weird chance I win something, I consider that a bonus.

Regards,
Edward
 
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Discussion Starter #17
Hey Chris
I Knew You were just "Funnin" when You responded w/the Jon Moss Signature statement, but I agree that the wording Must be perfectly Clear or someone like You or I will push that Gray Area !! LOL-LOL Being involved in NHRA Drag Racing, Circle Track ASA and NASCAR Busch Racing and Car Showing for over 37 years, I learned from the "Best", How to Read Between the Lines" !!
NASCAR's Head Tech Official, Gary Nelson, taught us that in one of his Tech Schools I attended. That's why He's NASCAR's Tech Boss !! He always pushed the Extreme Gray Area's when he was Kyle Petty's Crew Chief, they couldn't beat him, SSoo, they Hired him !! LOL-LOL Some may think that I over emphasize the Rules too much and go into too much detail, But, as You can See Why I do this, Take away the Gray Areas and there is No Question to what I'm stating in each rule.
I'll Stop at that before I get myself into Trouble !! LOL-LOL
Damn...E-Dogg, Where did you find that Titanium Muffler Bearing !?!? I've been looking for one of them for over 25 years and Haven't found one Yet !! LOL-LOL
 
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Discussion Starter #18
Riddle me this then batman.

If I have the hood down. I am stock. Totaly stock. No tint, origional radio, everything including stock exaust tips. Can I then show as stock? Given no one else in the catagory I should win (this does work in Super Chevy)?

Thanks and great work

:cool:
 
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Discussion Starter #19
Bishop,
You will win if, and only if, you can get <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>70% of the total points available in order to be eligible for a trophy regardless of the number of cars entered in the class.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I read this 2 ways:

1) Generous Show Sponsors: If there is only one car you get an automatic score equivilent to 70% of the total and the judges don't waste there time even judging.

2) Competition Minded Sponsors: All cars will be judged regardless of # in the class and if you don't measure up (ie. 69 points out of a possible 100) you don't get a trophy.

I would say...(NOT SPEAKING FOR THE BoD, just want to clarify that!!) that they were looking for something like #2 since if you enter a Car Show you should be willing to put forth some effort to keep your car a bit clean. At least in 70% of the areas judged.


Larry...how close did I get? Did I get a 70% on that quiz?


By the way Bishop... I have won a SC trophy and jacket because I was the only one in my class. We entered the Mont. SCS with the 96, but I broke a valve spring on the drive down. So we trailered back home, got my great-grandmothers 2000 Impala and finished the trip we started out on. It made great transportation for those other NASSA guys that left their cars at the show.

I entered since I had preregistered...and I ended up winning. Never washed it...even hid it from the judges and they searched it out and gave me a trophy. I ended up giving it to my great-grandmother to hang on her wall to tell her quilting buddies. :D
 
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Discussion Starter #20
Hey Chris and All
SSee there Chris, Your 1st Judged Vehicle in the Stock Class You will be Judging !! LOL-LOL You DID say "I WANT TO JUDGE THE STOCK CLASS", Didn't You !!

Yes, Chris, You read it Correctly, VERY GOOD !!
In order to receive an Award, Your Vehicle Must Meet The Minimum Point Standard of 70% of the Allowable Points to be eligable for and Award, Reguardless if Your the Only Vehicle in Your Class or Not.
Oh Chris, "BishopSS95" Won't be in the Stock Class anyway according to his tag line...
"BishopSS95
Intake, Headers, Yada Yada Yada"
 
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