Chevy Impala SS Forum banner

21 - 40 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
976 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
Bye bye non-op ABS that has never worked whole time I've owned it.





Hoping this will "fix" stupid fronts locking up way too easily.
Was able to easily lock them simply backing outta driveway and stabbing pedal hard. It's just ridiculous, everything has been replaced.
With recent rains it became clear pretty much unsafe to drive like this.
A less skilled driver would have wrecked more than once.

Got dark, chilly, and back killing me, so bleeding will have 2 wait until tomorrow.
Crossing my fingers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,795 Posts
Perfect time to install a line-loc,but easy enough down the road too. No reason brakes can't work well without an obsolete ABS along for the ride. Mine work excellent.... Good Luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
976 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
Well kinda fugly but it'll get cleaned up when engine change occurs.

Not a lot of room for cutting/flaring.
Really stupid the LF is M12 while prop. front line & RF are both M10.
Had to cut/swap fitting/reflare. The RF broke so had to do that one as well.

My brakes work very well just fronts lock way too easily.
Find out tomorrow if ABS was issue.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,584 Posts
Hey Babe, I did that diet too. Big hunk of junk hanging off the front.:wink2: I kinda figured you would redo it later. I've watched the detailed work you have done in the past. And yes, I will inform the insurance company once I'm back on the road. It's only a couple dollars difference. BTW, you might consider a residual pressure valve for the rears.

Mark: Snowman-33
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,025 Posts
I just pulled a Hydroboost from an Astro van. I am keeping it for a spare. The important part is the adapter. If you can't find an Astro van unit, you must swap adapters. The tool to R&R the plate is $38. I also found that the Hydroboost from an 07 Tahoe used the larger base of the OEM master cylinder, but has a weird plate for a mount. The flat plate is available for $25 on ebay. I also cut the eye off of the Hydroboost, and had the original eye from my original vacuum booster welded on it at a 6 3/8" plate to center of the eye. It fits perfectly on my brake pedal pin with the pedal at the original position. The lines from the Astro van MC to the proportioning valve must be replaced, because the ones for the Astro van are a different size. I made new lines because the original ones do not have enough material to swap the nuts, and flare the lines. The Astro van MCs also have double flares, and the B bodies have bubble flares. Since the 07 Tahoe used the original MC, it would not need the lines replaced. You have two options...make new lines, or get a flat mounting plate, and the tool.

The hoses on the other post will fit, if you can tweak one of them around the ABS unit. The one from the pump to the Hydroboost unit gets a little close headers, and if you have headers, I advise putting a heat shield on the line.

I bought a set of bleeders with check ball valves in them, that allow you to just pump the brakes to bleed them. I really like them, and bleeding the brakes is simple.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,584 Posts
I had intended to start another post about this but since you have brought this up here Fred and I hope Babe doesn't mind me furthering this train of thought. I have found about the same as you have on the hydroboost parts and install. My question is: What is done to the power steering pump for a hydroboost? Lee has an option on their rebuilds for it? And too, I'm glad the valves you got work. I have some in my box of brake parts. I wondered why I hadn't seen a post about them before.

Mark: Snowman-33
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,025 Posts
I put a "T" in the line for the return, other than that, just hooked up the hoses. I do not know of any difference between the pumps for Hydroboost, and non Hydroboost. None of the instructions for installing Hydroboost mentioned a different pump, just a two return reservoir.

There are reservoirs with two return lines (91-93) that can be swapped onto the pump. The LT1 cars would require a "T", because I do not know of a two port return reservoir for them. If someone finds a suitable one, that would be a good addition to this post. The return is not pressurized, so it is not a big issue to me.

A lot of people do not know that a "self bleeder" exists, and there are also people who do not like them. You must take the original bleeder valves to the parts store with you, or get the thread size, and length, because there are a number of different threads, and lengths. I do not even remember which ones I got, and I am inclined to put them on my other OCC as well, so I will have to measure them again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,025 Posts
BTW, you could make a 3/4 inch standoff for the plate to allow you to use the original Hydroboost eye with a sleeve to fit the B body pin (5/8 OD, 7/16 ID). I believe the 3/4 inch dimension is correct, but you should measure it to be accurate. In making the standoff, make sure the firewall is sealed. A piece of hard nylon or aluminum would work best. You will probably need longer bolts/studs to attach the unit. A little tweaking of the lines will also be necessary when you move the unit out. The Hydroboost has the same length as the vacuum booster.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,437 Posts
yes my 96 Impala does not have drum rear brakes but I have owned GM sedans since 1967 that had drum brakes.. I now still have my 84 camaro and my boat trailer with drum brakes .

so when I see that my front brakes do more braking the front end nose dives then I check the rear drum brakes. now in today's world asbestos shoes are not used so what happens is the drums made of china sh*t metal wear out much fast than my pre 1980's GM sedans.

there are idiots out there that have drums cut ... IMO that is stupid stupid .. the drum radius must match the shoe radius .. so if it is not the same only the top of the shoes will provide friction .. I have seen this before only 1/2 or less of the shoe touches the drum so the rears will not provide the spec braking.. doing the mod will not help much .
drums made today are not as hard and durable as the ancient ones made in the USA..
flat spots on your front tires you best check out those rear drums/shoes and how much shoe contacts the drum ....
the other problem if the shoes have good surface contact maybe air in the rear brake lines .. I have had that happen also ..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
976 Posts
Discussion Starter #30
Perfect time to install a line-loc,but easy enough down the road too. No reason brakes can't work well without an obsolete ABS along for the ride. Mine work excellent.... Good Luck
Well appears it's finally "fixed". Yay!
Removal of ABS should have been done right after bought the thing.
Never worked and appears to have been doing something funky.
20+yr old useless crap in this case.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,539 Posts
Well appears it's finally "fixed". Yay!
Removal of ABS should have been done right after bought the thing.
Never worked and appears to have been doing something funky.
20+yr old useless crap in this case.
I'm just jumping into this thread now. God how I'd live to get rid of the ABS on mine. I didn't have quite as an extreme braking situation as Babyway did but I had to push HARD on the pedal to slow down with a lady changing lanes, in the rain, and I just saw my right front hood/fender area just miss the rear end of her car by inches.....

Just to add to this thread. Scott Z. from 2S Manufacturing documented the removal in his wagon for all to enjoy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,024 Posts
........
......On SS model with 4 wheel disc the rears are mostly cosmetic in function as GM did not have a 70/30 proportioning valve. Many of us did the "brake bolt mod" to remedy this. Does not apply to a disc/drum car though

Good you could avoid the bat**** driver....hopefully you did not flat spot the front tires but that is better than sheet metal and paint repair

ABS, if working, is more valuable in rain & ice conditions vs dry pavement

My first FWB got both bolt mods (it had rear discs). My current FWB got only the rear bolt mod, along with carefully close adjustment using ALL NEW parts back there - slaves, drums, springs.....). Only sporadic searches but never could find a s.s. braided rear hose.



And rain n ice x a millionty ten. I'll keep the stone-age ABS TYVM. Saved my ass and kept my 4,800# slug out of the ditch >1 occasion. When it's dry though I've gotten used to flipping off TC since my Tru-Trac went in ;) and double ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
976 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
No ABS codes were ever present.
Normal operation of ABS and brake warning lamps.
Just zero ABS function.
Never bothered to have unit tested/diagnosed as I saw it as wasted $$ due to age and costs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
214 Posts
Have to defer back to the Z09 post a bit....the brakes were working at the maximum adhesion to the road. The car did all it can do with what it has. Without ABS functioning that's what happens.

Yes there were only two marks. That's to be expected. Under hard braking the rear brakes all but shut down to prevent rear wheel lock up. Every car on the road today has that safety factor built into it. The bolt mod opens up the rear line pressure and "could" have helped by allowing more rear brake. But how much is too much? That's why we made rear ABS!

Moving to the stickier tire is not a guarantee of not locking up and skidding but more of a good chance that the length of the slid marks would be shorter. You'd have had more adhesion on the road surface and thus the maximum tire torque would be greater.

As for the hyda-boost, I get asked on it form time to time. It won't shorten your stopping distance any more than pushing harder on the pedal. It's nothing more than a means to bump line pressure rather than relying on vacuum assist. Maximum torque is maximum torque regardless of how you got there- and in this case you did. Probably on some older all season tires that don't have as much grip as you needed at the moment.

"My pedal was so much stiffer after I installed it...." yes that's just line pressure. It's the same as ss braided hoses; they don't shorten distances either they just provide a more linear pressure. Same as losing vacumm sucks as you feel a pedal sink and become harder to push at times; hydra-boost is a great tool for that. But it doesn't shorten the stopping distance any more than you pushing harder.


That said even a BBK won't necessarily shorten a stopping distance either. There's mil second reaction time in how it functions perhaps but like the big iron caliper it's maximum work is wheel lock up, nothing more. The benefit of the BBK is that it does it over and over without fade.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
976 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
I'll just add...hydroboost is easier to manipulate pressure.
In my experience after installing it on my wagoneer is a much better means of controlling braking.
Under similar panic stop circumstances before/after I could stop quicker w/o locking the brakes.
Braking while towing was also much improved.
The Wagoneer & Caprice weigh about the same and use virtually identical brakes. Calipers, pads, and rear shoes are same exact parts.

There are a LOT if stupid drivers in CA need all help you can get!
It's personal preference I guess, I like HB brakes.
 

·
Registered
1996 ImpalaSS WX3
Joined
·
358 Posts
Bet rear "sliders" are seized,and have been for some time... Making them all but useless. An inspection will reveal the inboard pads thinner than outboard pads... I removed the ABS years ago. It's quite primitive by today's standards. If it's working for you fine. If not,it isn't worth fixing in my opinion. It can be easily removed,as many (including myself) have done...
I want to remove the ABS system completely from my car also.
Would you be willing to give me some information on what’s all involved in that process?
Thank you for your time,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
486 Posts
Somewhere along the line I got curious if you could just swap in a newer ABS system since ours is old, outdated, minimally beneficial when it is working and are now failing with age. It turns out that it isn't simple, but not impossible either. Although it's from 2011, I found this article to be very interesting. The main points are yes it can be done, but you need a complete system from a donor vehicle and because there is no programming for these, it must come from a vehicle with similar overall weight, similar weight distribution, same drive layout (FWD, RWD, AWD, etc), same number of channels and similar brake setup (all disc, front disc/rear drum, etc). I haven't done any digging yet into potential options for our cars, but especially if you've swapped to all disc I don't think it'd be too hard to find something worth using.


https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-1108-abs-for-hot-rods/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,584 Posts
Somewhere along the line I got curious if you could just swap in a newer ABS system since ours is old, outdated, minimally beneficial when it is working, and are now failing with age.
It turns out that it isn't simple, but not impossible either.
Although it's from 2011, I found this article to be very interesting.
The main points are yes it can be done, but you need a complete system from a donor vehicle and because there is no programming for these, it must come from a vehicle with similar overall weight, similar weight distribution, same drive layout (FWD, RWD, AWD, etc), same number of channels and similar brake setup (all disc, front disc/rear drum, etc).
I haven't done any digging yet into potential options for our cars, but especially if you've swapped to all disc I don't think it'd be too hard to find something worth using.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-1108-abs-for-hot-rods/
Assuming the starting point is a B-car's 95/96 3Channel ABS, and also that the 95/96 Fleetwood's 4Channel ABS is a woefully insufficient upgrade …
What other 4000-4400lb RWD cars with roughly 50/50 weight distribution had all-disc brakes with 4Channel ABS?
Are we limited to GM?

Limited to GM, the answer that comes to my little mind, would be the Holden WM2 - that's the recent Pontiac GTO / G8 / Chevy Caprice PPV.
 
21 - 40 of 42 Posts
Top