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I just returned from the Reno RODarama and thought I would share some thoughts and opinions. After all, I feel that the ISSCA membership has a need to know.

First off, big "CONGRATS" to the Region of Doom guys. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the ROD guys know how to host an event!!

Now for the serious stuff. In a land not too too far away, known as the Impala Forum, in a thread easily viewed from this subject line, was once a little heated discussion about how Impala's were to be classified at ISSCA judged shows. The President of this land, apparently in an effort to quell the discussion in front of everyone, invited us to the BOD meeting to publicly discuss the car show classes in Reno at the Region of Doom event. The invitation was accepted and the heated discussion upon the forum ceased.

Upon my encounter in Reno with, not only the President, but also the Head Car Show Judge, I reminded them of how I was invited to participate and was looking forward to doing so. After all, I had spent many hours and deep contemplation typing and retyping a two page presentation which, alas, would not be seen by any soul.

It seems that the BOD's held the Board Meeting mid-afternoon on Saturday, during the RODarama car show, at an undisclosed location and unannounced to fellow ISSCA members. I thought that Board meetings were open to members? After all, there was a band playing where an announcement could have been made.

I guess the Board doesn't care to hear it on the forum, and the Board doesn't care to hear it in person. Maybe the Board just doesn't care?
 
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Secret, Secret, I got a Secret! Good thing I wasn't there or I would have called out the board about their secret meeting in front of the guests at award time! I think the ISSCA Bod owes a public apology to Rick for snubbing him like this. This is crap and I am Pissed!!! He is a representative of my club and I expected the BOD to hear him out. He specifically asked me for input for this anticipated BOD meeting since I was unable to make it. He was also going to update all of our club members on this meeting. I think the BOD has blown us off, not just Rick and I, but all of of that wanted this so called national club that was supposed to be member run. All we have is a self appointed cabal of 13 in charge, and they don't seem to give a **** about the rest of the members as long as we send in our dues. Of course, they will try to blame Rick for not finding out when the meeting was or some such crap. I AM NOT AMUSED!!!!
 
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Well said Rick (and kinda cute, I might add). But before we all get out the lynchin' rope, let's hear from the ISSCA BOD.

Ok, guys, what happened?

Mike McAllister
President ICSD
 
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Rick,
I must apologize as we never did discuss the judging rules in the short diner meeting we had, and did not have enough time to discuss even the business that we needed to discuss. We found it impossible to meet at the show due to the overwhelming interest we received from everyone present. I did not forget the invitation I presented to you and did talk to you many times during the weekend. I remember asking you if you had talked to the head judge and you indicated that you had. I have made the mistake of thinking that you had made your suggestions to him and we could take care of it from there. However we did not meet in a secret place to escape you attending or anyone else. We were not trying to hold a meeting without anyone present, just trying to get together for some business that was pressing. Actually our quarterly business was canned due to the activities at hand. You notice that all of the directors were making the rounds and getting to know everyone, one on one. We had planned to have a meeting in the pavilion where we spent much time talking to you and others. I couldn't tell you in advance of coming to Reno where we would hold the meeting because we didn't know what would happen during the event. Our so called meeting consisted of getting together for dinner and hurrying through just a few topics which did not consist of the judging guidelines.

I know that you must have had a great impact with Larry Hall as he did discuss a few items with me late at night while we sat out front of the hotel.

It was unfortunate that we did not get to have a real meeting where you and others could have attended. You never told me that you had a two page proposal to present, I would have made sure you had an opportunity to present it before as many of the directors that we could get together at the show. I apologize again for myself and all of the directors.
Looking up to you,
Harvey Clark

P.S. We did manage to vote on the San Diego Chartered status and welcome all of the members aboard.
 
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Harvey,
First, i will apologize for any language I used in my first post in this thread. I was quite upset when I heard about this. This does not change how I feel about the way the ISSCA BOD treated Rick. I am not satified with your response. You and Larry Hall specifically invited Rick to speak at this meeting in the other thread. Rick sought out Larry Hall when he arrived in Reno and said he had a 2 page proposal to present to the BOD on this issue and he was looking forward to this meeting. Larry new full well that Rick expected to be heard by the BOD. You then claim managerial problems involving when to hold to meeting and your inability to announce the meeting time so that the ISSCA members in attendance (including all the new ones you signed up at the event)can listen in and take part. I know it is not in the club bylaws to allow members to attend BOD meetings, but since you issued the invitation on a public forum, you should have allowed for this. The only thing I am left to believe is that the original invitation to Rick and I to go to Reno and attend the BOD meeting was a ploy to get us to stop discussing the issue on this forum. I believe that it was hoped that we would forget it or the issue would blow over. Larry was probably surprised when Rick shows up with a 2 page proposal. BTW, The BOD said they had put the new judging rules in effect (this was stated in the other thread) and it was too late to change the rules, so why wasn't the Reno show in accordance with ISSCA car show rules? What happened to the classes and ISSCA judges you spoke about in the other thread? Frankly, your story doesn't hold water.
 
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Rick,
If you would like, post your presentation here. I am sure there are many members who would be interested in reading it.
Thanks,
 
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I would like to apologize to the ISSCA Board of Directors for the rancor of my previous posts. They were posted while I was upset, and I didn't stop to think it through first. I spoke with a couple of people last night and now belive that what happened was an honest mistake and was in no way done on purpose. I am disappointed that Rick didn't get the chance to make his proposal to the BOD. I still believe that the classification rules for paint modifications need some minor alterations. I hope there are no hard feelings, after all, I told myself that this is just a minor disagreement and it isn't something I should be getting so worked up over. Once again, my apologies to the ISSCA Board of Directors.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Eric got mad :mad: got mad some more :mad: :mad: then apologized :cool: NOW THAT"S CLASS
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Hey Guys,

I've tried to back up and read the whole thread on this issue. What I'll say here is not as an ISSCA BOD member but as a show judge at the last Bowling Green event where there were elite cars parked inside for some, shall we say, Extreme scrutiny. All manner of B-Body vehicles were entered in that class, from stock to heavily modified. Does anyone remember who won? I do, Jim Downum, Stock 96 DCM. Jim competed aginst the likes of TMac (Presidential SS) and Harvey Clark (Purpala) just to name a few.

It has been my experience in the many Impala SS events I've been to and judged, that the main factor in who won in any judged class had nothing to do with the number of mods, type of graphics, body work or paint. The primary factor in winning or placing is how clean it is and the over-all condition of the vehicle.

Dividing the entries into the many different classes is really all about giving out more trophies to reward folks for their hard work. Heck, I've even seen classes where we had more trophies to give out than we did entries to receive them.

The point I'm trying to make is, if your car is clean, you CAN win.

Regards,
 
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Good point, Ray! I know folks who didn't see Jim's car in person at Bowling Green in 1999 don't believe it, but Jim's car really was THAT clean! In a sea of cars with THOUSANDS of dollars in mods, it really did stick out as the "Best Of Show" despite being bone stock.

Rick : PLEASE post your proposal here! I didn't hear ANYTHING about it (didn't even know you had one!) in Reno and thus was obviously in no way/shape/form able to make a judgement on a document I didn't even know EXISTED until I read about it here! In other words, my ESP skills are a bit lacking
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Obviously, if we HAD known about the proposal we would have gone out of our way to make sure you were invited to our (very) abbreviated dinner meeting.

Lesson for the future (for both of us) : we (ISSCA BOD) need to be a bit more specific in soliciting proposals, and folks making proposals (i.e. you) need to NOT be shy about letting the BOD know about them! We can only act on items we KNOW about!
 
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VARIOUS RAMBLINGS FOR ALL INVOLVED!!

PURPALA:
OK, whats done is done and maybe we all learned something. I posted all this here because it started here and the invite was offered here, (Did you read that Ed?). I didn't want to have to make the presentation to several different people through out the weekend, that's why I never discussed them with you or Larry. I thought the proper place would have been the BOD meeting. As another ISSCA member stated: "It was organized choas (at the RODarama)!" Maybe that's why I was overlooked, (can you do that?). Besides, I tried REAL HARD to write that post with tongue in cheek! In NO WAY, SHAPE or FORM was I attempting to belittle all the hard work and dedication that all the BOD's have sacraficed for ISSCA thus far. Please, keep up the good work!

WILKIN4:
Yes, I am really THAT tall, standing 5'24"! In this pic:

that's Ed Runnion two over from me. He stands 6'4"!

TIRPITZ:
I, too, agree; that took class to apologise. I know you are passionate to have a fair car show. But, keep voicing your opinion. After all, ISSCA is YOUR club too!

HEAVYSS:
You said: "It has been my experience in the many Impala SS events I've been to and judged, that the main factor in who won in any judged class had nothing to do with the number of mods, type of graphics, body work or paint. The primary factor in winning or placing is how clean it is and the over-all condition of the vehicle." And:
"Dividing the entries into the many different classes is really all about giving out more trophies to reward folks for their hard work. Heck, I've even seen classes where we had more trophies to give out than we did entries to receive them."

My main point in my presentation was to scrap the class structure altogether and just award a "Top 25" (or whatever number you pick). This would save lots of work and arguments about what class a certain car should fall into. It would also serve as an honor to the person who "lost" first place and got second in the past. How? John Force said it best; "Runner up is just the first looser!" I honestly believe that it would be easier to judge also. (If I could afford the time and $$$ I would consider steping into the line of fire and volunteer as a judge.)

AUTOCROSSER:
Sorry to have left you out of the loop, but the invite was made on the Forum by Harvey and involved Larry. I had informed both of them on Friday that I was looking forward to the meeting. Did I really need to inform every BOD member?

CONCLUSION:
That is the jest of my formal proposal: a "Top 25" award show. Should we open a discussion on that?
 
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Discussion Starter #14
I had an Idea last night. We keep the rules as they are with one change. Add one more trophy and call it the peoples choice award. You would still have all the competitive judging for all the classes and a best of show, then the spectators would vote on a "peoples choice". When you guys say anyone can win if the car is clean, I keep picturing a "Mary Kay pink" Impala winning best of show just because it's clean. It may be the cleanest Car at the show, but it just doesn't flow, if you get my drift. A peoples choice award at the shows would be nice for the car that looks drop dead gorgeous, but lost out on an award due to a few small details that only the judges and hardcore car show guys would notice anyway. Just a thought.
 
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Eric Maxwell wrote:

I had an Idea last night. We keep the rules as they are with one change. Add one more trophy and call it the "Peoples Choice" award. You would still have all the competitive judging for all the classes and a best of show, then the spectators would vote on a "Peoples Choice".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Having been a Chairman of a Regional Show (Impalapalooza at the Gathering in Atlanta '98) and a National Show (Impalapalooza on the Green-II in Bowling Green '99) and having been to every Impalafest since 1998, Bowling Green '97 and Reno Rodarama 2001, I can tell you with some authority that every show has had a "Peoples Choice" award. The fact that ISSCA does not have that category as an official classification DOES NOT prohibit the show organizers from offering that award and in fact they do! The "Best of" awards (Engine, Paint, Exterior, Interior, etc.) are all "Peoples Choice" awards that are offered as a local show award. In my conversations with the promoters of the next two major shows, Dreamapalooza 2001 and Impalafest 2001, they each have indicated that there will be a "Peoples Choice" award category. These are for the cars that you describe as "look drop dead gorgeous, but lost out on an award due to a few small details that only the judges and hardcore car show guys would notice." I can tell you that from experience, a car that has been prepared to win in "Peoples Choice" typically also places in the regular categories. I can't recall a car that did not place in a regular category yet won a "Peoples Choice" award. But then again, I'm of the age that the first thing to go is memory :)
 
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