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Discussion Starter #1
I am in the middle of putting a performance suspension kit on my front end and I've run into a problem...

The kit comes with new poly bushings for the upper and lower a-arms, and in the box for the bushings is a small instruction sheet and some little bags of grease.

The problem is that the instructions say to disassemble the bushings and put the supplied grease between the shell and bushing, and between the inner sleeve and bushing - however the instruction sheet shows a bushing that looks NOTHING like the one in the kit, and these bushings are already together... I dont know how the hell they are supposed to come apart!!

They are so tightly put together it almost looks like they werent meant to come apart, and they are the graphite impregnated kind for added lubrication so I dont know if these really need to come apart or not?!?

I am trying to avoid any machine shop work because I flat out have no money to pay someone else so any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
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Discussion Starter #2
Well to start off.. I am a jeep guy who recently came across my Roadmaster so this is a whole new world to me. BUT...

if these bushing < CLICK ME > are similar in construction to the ones you speak of; what i did to remove the outer and inner sleaves was to place a smaller punch on the inner sleeve and then smack the punch with a hammer and drive the inner sleeve out, either the whole way or just a little bit to kind of loosen things up. I then just grabbed on to the end of the bushing and twisted like crazy. I never banged on the bushing its self just the metal insert. When I was fabricating a crossmember for my jeep I used bushings like this.

Don't know if that helps at all hopefully it does. Good luck!
 
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Discussion Starter #3
I've also seen instructions to burn the rubber out of the old bushings with a torch to get at the shell, if you can stand the stink and won't get ratted out to enviro nazis by your neighbors.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Unfotunately SLO the bushings I have dont look like the ones in your link, but maybe I'll still try that for mine.

SSSSSnyder, I dont need to get at the old shells, my bushings came with new ones.

Still not sure what to do, I think this migh tbe the reason why people always say that poly bushings squeak, maybe they never took the time to dissasemble them, or thought like I do that they dont come apart.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
TrybalRage, I Am Nearing The End Of This Same Project On My 95 Caprice. Im Going To E-Mail You With Some Pics Later Today But Yes, The Poly Bushings Will Come Out Of There Sleeves Pretty Easy As Long As You Have The Right Tool. That Tool Is a Home Made Bushing Removal Tool.

My Was Similar To The One Found At This Link. Homemade Bushing Removal Tool
The Threaded Rod Needs To Be 1/2" Rod For Our Cars, Not 5/8 Like These Directions Say But It Works The Same. The Piece Of PVC Pipe Is a 1-3/4 Coupler That is 2 1/2" Long. Below Is a List Of Parts I Bought For This Whole Setup And It Was Worth Every Penny. You Wont Be Needing To Save The Metal Inserts From The Old Bushings So You Can Just Skip That Step.

1. 1/2 Threaded Rod 24" Long - Doesn't Need To Be Acme Thread, Course Thread Will Do.
2. 3 Nuts For Threaded Rod
3. 2 -2 1/2" Flat Washers
4. 2 -1 3/4" Flat Washers
5. 2 -1" Flat Washers
6. 1 - 1 3/4" PCV Pipe Coupler.
7. 1 - 3/4" X 3" Metal Water Pipe.

The Metal Water Pipe Is For Pushing The Metal Sleeves Out Of The Old Lower Control Arm Bushings. Once The Metal Sleeve Is Out, I Cut The Rubber Bushing
And Sleeve CAREFULLY With a Metal Sawzall Blade On The LONG Side Of The Sleeve! Once I Got Thru The Sleeve, I Took a Punch and Hammer And Crushed The Metal Sleeve Down a Little Then Hit It With a Hammer And They Came Right Out! You Can Also Use a Hacksaw If You Dont Have a Swazall. Just Cut The Rubber Bushing Thru, Twist It To Remove It, Then Hacksaw The Old Sleeve, Crush It With The Punch/Hammer And Knock It Out But The Hacksaw Method Requies You To Remove The Blade, Slide It Thru The The Sleeve And Put The Blade Back On.

Not Sure Where Your At In This Setup But To Get The New Upper Bushings OUT Of There Sleeves. Set The Sleeve With The Flared End On Top Of The PVC Pipe at One End, Slide The 1/2 Rod Thru Both The Pipe And Sleeve, Put a 1" Washer On The Rod, Slide It Down Against The Bushing, Put a Nut On The Same Side. On The Oppposite Side Of The PCV Pipe, Put On The 2 1/2" Washer,1 3/4" Washer And 1" Washer In That Order, Put a Nut On The Rod And Tighten The Nut Until The Bushing Is Pulled Thru Into The PVC Pipe! It May Pull It All The Way Or Close To All The Way But You Can Pull It Out By Hand At This Point! Put Just The Metal Sleeve In When You Are Re-Assembling The Bushings, Then Use The Lube They Give You And Pull The Bushing Into The Sleeve With This Same Setup. Is This Whole Job a Pain? You Bet It Is! I Also Used The Following Tools For Both The Upper And Lower Control Arm Bushing Removal And Re-Install.
1. Ball Joint Press Kit (Rent At Auto Store).
2. Pulley Puller (Rent At Auto Store).

Hope This Helps? You Will Have To Use Your Imagination Sometimes On This Setup But I Did It ALL In My Garage Without The Help Of a Machine Shop! I Just Finished The Upper Arms Yesterday, Ready To Install The Whole "Nightmare" Today!...Mike


 
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Discussion Starter #6
I must be missing something. Why would you want to lubricate bushing between rubber/polyurethane and sleeve, since Upper Conrol Arm rotation, is on inner sleeve and pivot shaft that installs between bushings? On Lower Control Arms, rotation is between inner sleeves & sholdered bolts that attach Arm to frame? I use Bearing Grease on inside of inner sleeves and on friction surfaces of pivot shafts/sholdered bolts. Again, why are you taking these new bushings apart????? :confused:
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Larry,
The inner sleeve is always stationary in relation to frame (LCA) or pivot shaft (UCA).
Control arm movement comes from the bushing.
With rubber bushings, the bushing itself twists/deflects to allow the control arm angle to change. You can tell this when you try to take out old rubber bushings. They are really stuck to the sleeves.
With poly bushings, the bushing rotates, mostly around the inner sleeve. (Naturally, poly bushings also deflect a bit, but they rely on rotation for control arm angle changes).
If I remember right, the Energy Suspension bushings are supposed to be already lubed between the bushing and the sleeves, so you should not have to take them apart, but check with ES instead of taking my word on it.
I took my lowers apart because I had to turn, drill and broach grease channels into them.
Tim
 
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Discussion Starter #8
BnB, I remember previous posts in the past by you, and I make you an intelligent guy, but I respectfully disagree. In my opinion, as much as the Upper & Lower Control Arms move in the normal course of driving during a Bushings lifespan, if friction surface was not Inner METAL Sleeve to METAL Pivot Shaft/Shouldered Bolts friction surfaces, these Bushings would be toast in short order. The purpose of rubber/polyurethane between inner & outer sleeves is to dampen front end road noise to the passenger compartment. Anyone want to back me up on this?
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Larry,
Think about it this way: The lower control arm bolts are tightened to over 100 lb-ft. That sandwiches the inner sleeves so tight that they do not rotate.
The UCA inner sleeves don't get torqued as tight, but they have serrated ends (I really hope that I am thinking of the right car here, I'm sure that someone will be quick to point out if I'm not) to help keep them from rotating.
Tim
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Actually, The Reason That Energy Suspension Recommends Seperating The Inner Bushings From There Sleeves Prior To Installation Is So That The Urethane Bushing Itself Doesn't Get Damaged On The Outside Edge During Installation. They Recommend That You Press The Metal Sleeves In 1st And Then Lube The Urethane Bushing With The Supplied Lubricant And Then Pull The Urethane Bushing Into The Sleeve. This Can Get "Tricky" On The Upper Control Arms Because You Must Install 1 Sleeve And Bushing, Then Slide In The Control Arm Mounting Rod, Press In The Other Sleeve, Slide The Mounting Rod Thru That Sleeve, Then Push The Other Urethane Bushing In As Far As Possible By Hand, Then Put All The Outer Washers And Nuts On The Mounting Rod And Pull The Last Bushing In With The Nut On The End Of The Mounting Rod. It Worked For Me But I Must Say, I Had To Look At The Whole Senario For a Bit To Figure This Out! It Sure Seems Like There Could Have Been An Easier Way To Do This But That's How I Did Mine!...Mike
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Yeah, that sounds like a good reason to remove the bushing from the sleeve. (As has been already said, the outer sleeves come out easily with threaded rod, short piece or exhaust pipe and a really large washer. The inner sleeve comes out easily using a deep socket sligthly thinner than the sleeve.)
When pressing in the upper control arm sleeves or bushings, I always insert a "c-clip" made of 2" plumbing pipe between the inner walls of the control arm to keep from crushing it. Cut the pipe along its length so that a little less than 2/3 of the pipe is still there. The side profile looks like a "C". The length for b-body uppper control arms is about 12.25". Keeps the control arm from deforming permanently.
Tim
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Guys, I've never installed CA Bushings myself, but have watched my Machine Shop man Anthony install three different sets of UCAB's. After removing old Bushings, he, wire wheel cleans friction surfaces of Pivot Shaft ends, greases(bearing grease) FS's of PS's & inside of Inner Sleeves in Bushings, then hammers new Bushings onto Arms using an old deep socket. Never separates new Bushings and never any sqeaking in use! I believe these Poly Bushing manufactures recommend, teardown & lube, is to lessen squeaking of bushings. If lube was critical between poly & sleeves, wouldn't they do this during manufacture. Has anyone installed Poly Bushings without teardown/lube, and had excessive noise or longevity issues?? :confused:
 
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Discussion Starter #13
Larry,
I do seem to recall that they are already lubed from the factory. But, just like Mike B-bodybuilder pointed out, it is better to separate them and push in the outer sleeve by itself into the control arm first. This way you don't use the bushing to push the sleeve in and possibly crush the outer lip of the bushing.
The surfaces on the pivot shaft are actually not friction surfaces. The inner sleeve does not rotate, at least it is not supposed to. The UCA inner sleeves even have serrated ends to help keep them from rotating (or is it the pivot shaft, or both? I keep confusing different cars). I do grease the insides of inner sleeves and control arm bolts, but I do this for just-in-case corrosion protection, not to facilite movement.
Tim
 
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Discussion Starter #14
The ONLY reason I lubed them was because in the box they came in, there was a little piece of paper with instructions to take them apart and lubing them. Never having done a front end before, I followed the instructions.
 
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Discussion Starter #15
Trybal, The Bushings Seemed To Go In Easier Also When I Lubed Them 1st. Maybe This Is Also Part Of The Reason The ES Recommends You Do This In There Instructions. Yes, The Bushings Were Lubed From The Factory Also On Mine. I Used a Ball Joint Press To Push The Sleeves In Both The Upper And Lower Control Arms But I Put a Large Flat Washer Between The Press And The Sleeve BEFORE Installing Them To Get a Flat, Uniform Press All The Way In The Control Arms. I Had a Friend That Owns a Shop That Powdercoats, Sand Blast And PowderCoat All 4 Control Arms In Black 1st Before Installing Any Of The Bushings. With That Said, The Whole Process Took Me About a Month Also In My Spare Time And Yes..This Project Is a Major PITA But Well Worth It When All Is Said And Done And It Looks Good Too!....Mike
 
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Discussion Starter #16
Hey Everyone-
I emailed the following to Energy Suspension. Hopefully this will clear up this thread.

"My name is Stephen and I recently bought a PST front suspension rebuild kit for 1993 Chevy Caprice. I am member of the the impalassforum.com as well. For the last week or so, we have been having a discussion about the control arm bushings in the PST kit and some questions have been raised.
The instructions indicate to remove the new bushings from their sleeves and lube the areas between the outer and inner sleeve and the bushing. These are the questions that have been raised from these instructions:
1. Do you really need to dismatle the new bushing in order to lube it per order of the directions?
2. If yes, the following question. The bushing that come in the PST kit are prelubed, why do we need to relube them? Is it to ease installation or to prevent squeeking from these bushings?
Thanks for the time to clear up the confusion. "
 
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This is the response I got:

HEY STEPHEN, WE ASSEMBLE THE BUSHINGS FOR SHIPPING,BUT THEY SHOULD BE PULLED APART FOR ASSY.INSTALL THE BARE SHELL THEN PRESS IN THE BUSHING THEN THE SLEEVE...LUBE EVERYWHERE THE BUSHING MEETS METAL FOR EASIER INSTALL. AND TO KEEP THE BUSHINGS FROM SQUEEKING...THE BLACK BUSHINGS ARE GRAPHITE IMPREGNATED ON CONTROL ARM APPLICATIONS!!!(BETTER LUBE AND LONGER WEAR!!!!)THANKS FOR YOUR INTEREST IN ENERGY!! [email protected]
 
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