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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

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Can and do the test machines tag the VIN to the pcm on quarter-century old junkers? Or even new stuff?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I don't know, I don't live in California. I know Pennsylvania exempts emission after so many years old.
 

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"… “Smog Check” refers to an emissions inspection. While some counties implement this throughout the United States, the one in California is notably stricter. It uses a “sniffer” test to weed out any pollutants from your car’s exhaust, among other visual inspections, and the state has taken it up a notch by going after “unapproved” ECU software. Tests will be done to see if the files have been altered in the ECU through a CVN (Calibration Verification Number).

So, what does this mean exactly? California’s emissions tests are specifically targeting modified engines, and if you’ve made changes to the software or coding of your ECU, you’ll fail. With enough data points, smog shops can determine if your car doesn’t match a profile within a certain degree of error, meaning it’ll know if you’ve modified the ECU. According to the CA.gov website, “vehicles with software not provided by the original equipment manufacturer (OEM) or approved through a California Air Resources Board (CARB) Executive Order (EO) will fail Smog Check.”

IronBlock LT1 pcms do not have CVNs.
Kalephonyuh will probably just push the LT1 emissions thresholds to the point where you'll need brand new sparkplugs just to pass the sniffer.
 

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LT1s do have calibration numbers, but they aren't verified like the newer stuff is.

As much as I dislike laws like this, at least gasoline engines are self-limiting due to their AFR ranges. So many guys with terrible diesel tunes around where I live rolling coal at every stop light are going to bring more of these sorts of laws if they don't self-police.
 

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LT1s do have calibration numbers, but they aren't verified like the newer stuff is.
Calibration part numbers, yes.
Calibration Verification Numbers? No. Checksum Verification Numbers? No.
This is why the Corporate Air Resources Board will just make it tougher and tougher to for LT1s to pass until E90 becomes the only legal fuel in Kalephonyuh.
As much as I dislike laws like this, at least gasoline engines are self-limiting due to their AFR ranges.
So many guys with terrible diesel tunes around where I live rolling coal at every stop light are going to bring more of these sorts of laws if they don't self-police.
Coal rollers are going to ruin diesel for everyone, including for biodiesel users.
 
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I'm normally quite conservative when it comes to the politics of car culture. Don't mess with my freedom. But as I get older, perhaps I'm changing. Here's my 2 cents on this, and I can see this bleeding into other states as well...

It's not just the "coal rollers". The super loud "crackle tune" 4-cyl cars that race up and down my street gassing and coasting just to pop pop pop (super loud, sounds like gunshots) are going to ruin it for everyone too. So many people are complaining about these ridiculously loud tunes. The "gunshot" tune only showed up in my area in the past few years.

This new generation of tuners is just irresponsible. Making noise for the sake of making noise (popping and banging goes beyond just a rowdy exhaust). Or making black smoke for the sake of it. It's not my thing.

As time progresses and this gets worse, I'd be fine if the entire country completely eliminates the ability to tune street cars. I think anyone who lives in busy urban/suburban areas and wants a moment of peace will agree with me. Those who live in farm towns probably don't care. They aren't awoken at 3am with bang-pop-bang-bang-bang as your neighborhood tuner teenager rolls by. Followed by his friends.

There is/are plenty of alternatives to keep street cars street and race cars race. For example, make new cars that cannot be programmed by anybody but factory updates from the dealership. BUT allow for a complete ECU swap. Then we can have a whole cottage industry of programmable ECUs used only for racing or hobby use. These won't pass smog or emission tests. But could include a system where you can swap ECUs without losing the "runtime/mileage" data with some sort of backup battery. Swap it out at the track (or street event, car show, etc), plow on. Swap in the stock PCM for the ride home or for aforementioned smog/emissions testing. If these tuners want high tech, then it's time to put your money where your mouth is. There can be workarounds. It just may not be convenient. Which is also fine with me, since every dang teenager doesn't need be popping and banging down the road or rolling coal.

As long as they don't completely kill hot rodding (older cars) or make it illegal to drive antique cars on the street in general, that's fine with me. Let a kid learn how to tune a carb rather than hiding in front of a screen.

Maybe the focus (regulation) will be on modern OBDII cars, so even us folks with ODBI and older can/should/will be exempt as well. I can't see states like CA having sophisticated enough software to read those older computer systems. But we will see.
 

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As long as they don't completely kill hot rodding (older cars) or make it illegal to drive antique cars on the street in general, that's fine with me. Let a kid learn how to tune a carb rather than hiding in front of a screen.

Maybe the focus (regulation) will be on modern OBDII cars, so even us folks with ODBI and older can/should/will be exempt as well.
I can't see states like CA having sophisticated enough software to read those older computer systems. But we will see.
Kalephonyuh will slowly 'kill off' OBD1 cars (such as our LT1 cars or anything older) by making it harder & harder to pass the buttsniffer each year.
I could be wrong, but I doubt it's worth it to them to connect & read old pcms.
Eventually the only way to pass in KP may well be with E90, or brand new sparkplugs, or maybe a cleverly hidden 12200411 pcm tuned specifically to pass emissions, or (pretending to?) intentionally short-stroke a younger 6.0L or 6.2L or 6.6L GM V8, or some other pain in the arse … which won't stop them from getting around to those cars either …
 

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What Tom is really getting to is that one of the foundational principles of America was not merely freedom, it was the freedom to self-govern. For people who cannot self-govern, a more intrusive government becomes a necessity.
 

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I wholeheartedly stipulate to that idea.
It becomes tempting to ponder that children, by definition, are less than fully capable of self-governance, and although dumb enough to want a car that can impersonate a gunfight, are clever enough to find workarounds to achieve such idiotic ends …
… which, for all I know, might make impounding those cars another government workaround, which may be very tempting to misuse, the same way civil asset forfeiture is misused …
 

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I wholeheartedly stipulate to that idea.
It becomes tempting to ponder that children, by definition, are less than fully capable of self-governance, and although dumb enough to want a car that can impersonate a gunfight, are clever enough to find workarounds to achieve such idiotic ends …
… which, for all I know, might make impounding those cars another government workaround, which may be very tempting to misuse, the same way civil asset forfeiture is misused …
Even more interesting is that I've complained to my local township PD. And to my cop friends. I also know the magistrate. But I have yet to see a cop sitting on my street waiting for one of these boneheads. It would be an easy catch too. Every day between 3pm and 5pm, they roll by like clockwork. And then again late at night.

Speaking of rolling coal, it's one thing to have a pickup truck. It's another thing to have a massive, overly built Kenworth diesel toolbox truck (from the local construction site) who thinks it's OK to have a 10 speed manual transmission, AND it's OK to have straight pipe stacks, AND it's OK have 30psi of boost with an extra-loud wastegate, and it's OK to run it up to 4000 RPM between each shift, AND it's OK to have black tinted windows so you can't even see who it is, and it's OK to speed past everyone's driveway at 50 MPH (in a 35 zone). Every single day this truck rolls coal and wakes up the neighborhood at 7am, lunchtime, and 4pm. For 2+ years! And more often if he needs to make a tool/parts run. I also complained to the township about this dude. They bring in this new 300+ unit housing plan (aka: 55+ "community"), call it "Traditions of America" and don't even respect the locals as they build these $400K+ tinderbox houses. Talking about self governance, the foreman on the site can't even have enough common sense to govern his own people and equipment in respect to the community. In this case I doubt the cops will do anything as the new "community" is big tax dollars I'm sure.

I'm not even sure if/how cops would even write this stuff up. Emissions laws and car mod laws are complicated since most of it spills into the federal level. The most I could hope for is that the idiots get caught doing something else illegal or they blow up their own cars, whichever comes first.

PS: I'm only in my 40s yet I feel like I'm talking like an old man. "Get off my lawn!" LOL.
 

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yeah this has got us in CA.....nervous. From what I have read its more towards the 2009 and newer OBD2 PCM software. IDK about our old bricks

Needless to say my pcm has been tuned and running a "stock" tune won't work with the larger injectors, cam, gears, etc...and the whole T56 thing. I have made "adjustments" (cough) over the last few years to keep IM monitors "on" which dodged the 1/1/2019 new BS of only allowing 1 IM to show not ready

There are still the $200-$300 options but those are harder to come by and this new ECU check may kill that. IDK how in depth the BAR/DMV computer hookup dives into these 25 year old OBD2 PCM. From my understanding I don't think OBD1 cars will be affected but may be wrong on that

There are out of state registration alternatives which I will contact Monday and know several people who have been doing that. It is actually quite common for the high $ imports to do this. I know a guy who has 89 cars registered out of state under a LLC. More to beat tax but there are no emission testing in that state and I can get a lifetime plate for $130

I also may find a cooperative shop who can scan to see if their software picks up anything if that can be dine "offline".
 

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That's some bullschidt.

I've … personal experience … with tunes that actually improve tested tailpipe emissions.
In other words, it's not about actually improving actual emissions.
It's about the CARB getting the money it charges to bless a tune with its costly seal of approval.
It's a racquet.

As said before, luckily, the ol' IronHead LT1s will not suffer under such scrutiny; our calibrations do not have Checksum Verification Numbers.
The CARB will just keep making ol' IronHead LT1's sniffer tests tougher & tougher to pass until forced to use an E85 tune, or somesuch shenanigans.

No system can ever fail anyone or anything it was never meant to serve or protect.
The first and last thing a system is designed to serve and protect is its own existence & growth.

(On a separate but related note, don't be surprised if the drunk driving BAC limit lowers to .06 before 2030, or some other horseschidt like that.)
 

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That's some bullschidt.


As said before, luckily, the ol' IronHead LT1s will not suffer under such scrutiny; our calibrations do not have Checksum Verification Numbers.
The CARB will just keep making ol' IronHead LT1's sniffer tests tougher & tougher to pass until forced to use an E85 tune, or somesuch shenanigans.
Marky...are you saying a 96, OBD2, PCM because those PCM's don't have "checksum Verification Numbers" (CVN)?

or is that for OBD1 cars?

Ed Wright did my tune and I did email him asking that ? but have not heard back. Its been several years since I last contacted him and I know he sold his shop many years ago.

IIRC Ed makes his B body tunes from B body (not F body) BIN so hopefully anything done does not trigger CVN changes....if the altered tune has them

Yeah it is BS and its all about getting any supplier of ECU tuning devices to pay up for CARB cert. This crap really started because of what VW did on their diesel cars and the diesel truck tunes that spew black smoke

But if our old brick PCM's just don't spit out the 411 (CVN) the smog test would look for....I would be good as I always have passed tail pipe and YES they keep lowering the #'s to the point it will never pass.
 

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Rachel, Jack, & Ashley Too. Did Trent write the alternate lyrics?
As said before, luckily, the ol' IronHead LT1s will not suffer under such scrutiny; our calibrations do not have Checksum Verification Numbers.
So I put 1G6DW52P7TR707929 into tis2web.service.gm.com, made the correct selections …
To elaborate on the quote above, neither OBD1 nor OBD2 LT1 calibrations have Checksum Verification Numbers.
Check if you like. Plug any VIN into that link, make the correct selections, and see what it says under CVN.

Don't know about other '96 or later OBD2 powertrain combos yet.
Feel free to plug in any VIN for any GM vehicle, select PCM or ECM, etc … you'll see exactly when CVNs become a thing to get concerned about for that particular VIN.
For example, I'll guess that:
maybe the 379 cubic inch nor the 395 cubic inch Detroit Diesels have CVNs?
Every 404 DuraMax definitely has several CVNs, one for each part of the calibration.
So, by 2001, I'd not be surprised if every engine had a CVN by '01.

For those vehicles with separate trans control modules, will Kalephonyuh check the trans control modules' CVNs?
Or just the engine control modules?
In other words, what if you just fix GM's [email protected]$$ shift strategy, & leave the engine alone? Will THAT pass?
 

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Thanks for the link Marky

Entered my VIN and CVN column shows "N/A"....assume not applicable or not available which for me would be good.

It does show 3 things associated with CVN and one is air pump disable which I had done by dealer, and Ed also disables it, and I have the GM sticker CARB EO# for that and the TSB to show if that comes up. Car passes visual for air pump as it is still on. The other 2 were for TSB's GM issued but again no CVN #'s.

So it appears these 96 PCM's are to old to show wtf they may be looking for. I had read that 2009 & newer are what they are concentrating on, especially diesel, as I suspect they have harvested all the OEM data parameters for those cars

I also read any "piggy back" controller can't be detected as they are just seeing the PCM via the OBD2 port so piggy back devices (trans controllers) should not be a issue

I hope this smog check plug in will show "N/A" or basically be blind to see WTF anything is relative to "tuning" aka "programming" adjustments

My IM monitors are "ready" which is what they have always previously checked and I never have a CEL which were always the things they checked for...and certainly still will

I will look on the BAR site when smog check time comes next year to see what the new lower tail pipe #'s are as they keep lowering them. If they drop more I may not make that so will have to find the $200 smog check option
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Not Cali this time, but Big Brother still wants to tell us what to do. Probably not going to affect our B bodies ( unless you lower your car more than 2" in the rear) , but I bet alot of us have trucks to haul sh!t around with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Not a fan of drinking and driving, but eventually the government will ban us from even driving our own cars eventually.
 
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