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Discussion Starter #1
My water pump went out some number of months ago, so I changed it out. Which led me to a water pump drive shaft seal leak. Car mostly sat without much use for awhile, but it was always trusty. Started when I needed to move it, started fast, ran well etc...

So tonight I get the front of the motor all buckled back up. I figured(first and biggest mistake) I got the opti on right, I had done it before and I certainly did not force it together this time. I used my two hands until it finally eased into place. Fit all the way against the base plate mounting tabs with no force exertion! Some time goes by, I get all the hoses on and I am ready to start it..

I figure the initial crank would be long, because it sat for a lonnnngggg time disassembled(waiting for parts and time..). I cranked 2 long times, it tried to start and hiccuped and this and that, but it would not run. I went around the engine and triple checked all the connectors, the opti harness wasn't plugged in! Derp! I plug that in, look over everything else real well to make sure I didn't miss any others and sure enough all looks well. I get back in and try to start it, it still hiccups and tries to start but just won't. I think to check the spark plug wires, those were all in shambles and so I sorted those out. At this point the already low battery needs a jump, so I get the truck next to it and do all that, cranking is much faster but still no real sign of life.

I think, well maybe it kind of flooded itself and that's why it tries to start but won't. I remember in the owners manual that these things have a flood clearing mode when throttle is 100% while cranking, so I give that a try. Low and behold it starts but is *very* rough and won't stay running. I do this one more time just to see if maybe the thing is just really flooded out. Same thing happens, revs up rough, cuts out and dies down low.

I did all the work to the tee of the book(besides hooking up the spark plug wires and opti harness, I deserve 10 lashings) and I touched nothing else while i was under the hood. Only touched/removed necessary electrical connectors and the like, they are ALL currently plugged in. So the problem has to lie in something I did and the only thing I could think to cause this issue is timing. I have air, fuel and spark.

I guess what this gets down to is this, can the opti be 'in place' but not be in the right place? I massaged it with my hands to get it just right, but is it possible the cam drive pin went into one of the clovers instead of the square slot??

My assumption is to do some basic diagnostics(check for spark, I know I have fuel and pressure, I have air, the air filter and tract are good and clear).

I googled this to high hell and back and it seems that NO ONE got the opti on wrong, it always ended up being some other issue. But my car ran before all this, so the first basic, assumption if you will, is that it's something I touched changing the water pump seal.

Any help would be appreciated. I would like to drive my car regularly again...... haha

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so you messed with the WP and OPTI .... then put it all back then tried to start it ???

IMO you did screw this up.. If I mess with the OPTI the WP is OFF and I have the scan tool connected .. even if it starts up I read for any pending or confirmed codes !!!
NO codes starts up then WP is installed ....

IMO I put the OPTI on the block with the CAP off so that the rotor is in the same position as it was when removed .............
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks? I'm not sure how to respond to that.

My opti is stripped one way and back again. It stays together because it won't go back together. The first time I took it apart was the last time it will come apart and remain to function.

So back to the original question, does this sound anything like an opti mistime issue? Or am I missing something else.

Scan9495 gave me no codes, so I assume that leads me to the fact that by some miracle, I got the opti on wrong without forcing it together?

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Have you checked fuel pressure??

I believe the Opti can only sit flush (read ABSOLUTELY FLUSH with timing cover) on its own (read without holding it against block) if the pin is in the right hole. You claim it does...but seem to be second guessing if you did get it on right. So from this side of the internet we can only read your assumption it is.

Cars sitting for some time can have coincidental part failure.....your previously leaking seal could have taken the Opti out. If I read your post right you can't open the opti ....which would have been prudent for any leak as it is VERY likely crud got inside and has fouled the optical sensor.....which typically can just be cleaned and opti would work (pic)

You did find 2 major reasons it would not start. Opti harness not plugged in and mis plugged wires....perhaps there is a 3rd "oops"...you need to find

I would start by confirming fuel pressure so you can rule fuel in/out as a cause
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Have you checked fuel pressure??

I believe the Opti can only sit flush (read ABSOLUTELY FLUSH with timing cover) on its own (read without holding it against block) if the pin is in the right hole. You claim it does...but seem to be second guessing if you did get it on right. So from this side of the internet we can only read your assumption it is.

Cars sitting for some time can have coincidental part failure.....your previously leaking seal could have taken the Opti out. If I read your post right you can't open the opti ....which would have been prudent for any leak as it is VERY likely crud got inside and has fouled the optical sensor.....which typically can just be cleaned and opti would work (pic)

You did find 2 major reasons it would not start. Opti harness not plugged in and mis plugged wires....perhaps there is a 3rd "oops"...you need to find

I would start by confirming fuel pressure so you can rule fuel in/out as a cause
Understood and thank you.

I have fuel pressure. It was in first post.

I sealed the opti with silicone when i rebuilt the OEM one, and the screws are mostly stripped for the cap. It's air tight and the only passage for something into it is the vent system. I know this much. The opti was clean and grease free. It looked like it came off a 50k mile car with no oil leaks...

Since I threw my back out last night, I am decommissioned from work for now so I won't be able to do anything to it for 3 or 4 days at least.

The car sat for a month or so while I was waiting to get time and parts to repair it. It ran fine until I took it apart. Had my signature injector misfire, but that's all it had and it's had that for 10s of 1000s of miles.

Since it is possible that the thing was severely flooded, I will try to start it again after I double check under the hood real well. Because it did run last night!

Like you suggested, I am going to double triple ultra check the work I did in the daylight when I finally get back to working.

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Discussion Starter #7
...yeah I read you said it was good...so what did a fuel pressure gauge say "good" is????
I think it was 42, or something like that, key on engine off. That's how this car has always been it has never made the 45+ it's supposed to make with the fuel pump on and no vacuum. It's just a few psi, so no big deal, but I always thought it was strange. I do need to replace the FPR though. I'll get to that after the damn thing runs.

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42 psi is fine.

either the opti was put on wrong or you still have a ignition related connection not plugged in or a component of the ignition system failed during the time the car sat (coil, ICM)

have never flooded a FI car...but if you somehow managed to do so during cranking the fuel should have dispersed by now

FWIW oil can get in a Opti that was..."sealed with RTV" through the bearing if it is worn

if you have good FP and the car does not fire quick...no need to keep cranking as the problem is in ignition be it a unplugged component or a failed one...or improperly installed one
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
42 psi is fine.

either the opti was put on wrong or you still have a ignition related connection not plugged in or a component of the ignition system failed during the time the car sat (coil, ICM)

have never flooded a FI car...but if you somehow managed to do so during cranking the fuel should have dispersed by now

FWIW oil can get in a Opti that was..."sealed with RTV" through the bearing if it is worn

if you have good FP and the car does not fire quick...no need to keep cranking as the problem is in ignition be it a unplugged component or a failed one...or improperly installed one
I'm going to go through and check spark wires and the whole bit. I'm not happy with myself at all.

Wouldnt it make sense that the ignition system is working given that it did run, although rough?

I'm thinking I gotta pull the opti again and start from there. Pull the car back down to the opti, remove, reinstall, and then test fire the car before installing anything else. All I get to do is wait around until I can do that.

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If the Opti went on without a fight, then you most likely have it installed correctly. Based on what I read in your first post, it could just be as simple as something not hooked up correctly or not at all.

Check the many threads out there on a "LT1 No Start Troubleshooting" to work the process of finding the fault. There are many links out there and I believe a real good one that used to be linked in the stickies here is no longer available on the web. Pretty sure I have a paper coy of that for just that reason. A lot of these links are slowly disappearing.

Better to at least follow a process of checking things til you can determine the problem area. If you get it narrowed down we may be able to help more. There are just too many variables going on here to really provide anything other than a guess at this point.
 

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if opti is not in the right hole for dowel pin...it won't run. It will backfore through intake though

you may still have some crossed plug wires if it does start but runs like crap

dialectic grease is your friend on plug wire boots...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
So I was writing a reply to this but got rudely interrupted.

Back to square one now again.

I went out a few days ago, Saturday I think?, and tried to start it, figuring if it was really flooded it should have washed down/vaporized by now. Sure enough, it started, but was real rough. It would idle all its own, however there is an odd description to it.

Let me put forth all the symptoms I had when it was running.
1. It would idle, but it would idle rough. When the gas was pressed to just give it a rev, the RPMs would settle down to normal, but eventually the engine would go into higher idle(still a little rough). Almost like the old 427s and how they load up when not tuned correctly.
2. It hazed black smoke out the exhaust at idle and blew some black smoke at all RPMs.
3. It bogs on harder revs. To be expected given that something is obviously wrong.

Im going to triple check the spark plugs and make sure they are right. I followed a diagram previously, but I guess I got it wrong still.

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if a plug wire is crossed there are 2 cyls not firing but injectors are still dumping fuel

Helps to have plug wires marked at both boot ends per cyl.

Given you had opti off and wires off but motor ran fine before...that is a STRONG indication plug wires are not on right now
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
if a plug wire is crossed there are 2 cyls not firing but injectors are still dumping fuel

Helps to have plug wires marked at both boot ends per cyl.

Given you had opti off and wires off but motor ran fine before...that is a STRONG indication plug wires are not on right now
So per my previous post, on saturday, I let the car run for a few minutes while I tried to get a scan on it and it never cleaned up... wouldn't do it.

BUT, breakthrough! I went to start it right now and it ran just fine! WTF?! It has the same old misfire and everything!

The only thing I have done and just did before starting it right now was take each plug wire, confirm it(they were all correct..) and remove each one from the spark plug and reconnect. Voila, started right up, idle settled down and the engine went to running just fine.

So the moral of the story is.. hook up your spark plugs correctly! Or else you risk seriously flooding the engine. That's exactly what happened here. I cranked the thing over so much that it massively flooded it. Incredible.

The only thing I need now is a new opti harness and 8 new injectors and all will be well.

Thanks guys. I appreciate all the help!

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the method is to mark the plug wires """ first """" then remove them ..

I also measure the ohms as well to confirm they are proper ohms ..
 

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Discussion Starter #16
the method is to mark the plug wires """ first """" then remove them ..

I also measure the ohms as well to confirm they are proper ohms ..
I'm figuring on redoing my spark wires here soon. I'll label the new ones for sure..

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I'm figuring on redoing my spark wires here soon. I'll label the new ones for sure..

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I am probably the only member here that takes a full 8 hrs when I screw with the opti ... LOL...

I only want to do this one time only....but those 3 WP did screw me so I do all this every time the WP weeps too much thru my drain tube... WP #4 is working perfect now .. no weeps ..
 

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I am probably the only member here that takes a full 8 hrs when I screw with the opti ... LOL...

I only want to do this one time only....but those 3 WP did screw me so I do all this every time the WP weeps too much thru my drain tube... WP #4 is working perfect now .. no weeps ..
My dad told me to go to napa to get a new water pump. It's a Gates. I told him that there are no good pumps anymore and that 50k miles from a pump is considered good. He said, well get the napa one it's got a lifetime warranty and if it fails, I'll give you 100 bucks.

There is this saying, don't ever buy something you will lose money on. So I did it, I bought the napa pump against my better judgment.

My dad is of the opinion that parts houses sell parts with lifetime warranties because their products are quality and will never fail. I come from the standpoint of, they can't sell their products without a lifetime warranty because they are such poor quality.

So when I get to do this pump inevitably goes in 30k miles, I'll get to go through all this one more time.

That's my little story about this particular scenario.

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put the drain hose/tube on the weep hole good insurance ... when it weeps too much now you have time to prepare for the parts/time to do it properly ..
I do check under the hood every couple of weeks ... then the rodents also ...
 

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put the drain hose/tube on the weep hole good insurance ... when it weeps too much now you have time to prepare for the parts/time to do it properly ..
I do check under the hood every couple of weeks ... then the rodents also ...
I'm not too concerned about the opti at this point. If it just gives me another good stint of life, it would have given me enough.

Next water pump means a new opti no matter what.

Just holding my breath which happens first. Opti or WP? 177k on the opti lol

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