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Road Course and AutoX rules talk...ISSCA Stewards Look Inside

655 Views 29 Replies 0 Participants Last post by  KDCM96SS
This thread is really for the official ISSCA racing stewards, (not that we
don't value other opinions).
Gene Bennett-West
Les Brown-West
Dominique Medina-West
David Valentine-West
Greg Smith-West
Mike Prezler-West
Tina Lawson-South
Cheston Phillips-South
Keith Brantley-South
Don Pusso-South East
Paul Kemlage-East
Lyndon Wesson-East
Karl Ellwein-East
James Foster-North
Chuck Spera-North

Ladies and gentlemen, The Annual Board of Directors meeting in Indianapolis
will be the 26th of January. I plan to attend as an appointed official to
help in any way possible.
The board and ISSCA members would be well served if we as racing stewards
could give them a good set of road course and autocross rules for 2002. We
have a set of drag racing rules already, but they could be adjusted as
I am not well suited for the job as National Racing Steward, due to my lack
of organizational skills, and due to my tendency to procrastinate. I might
have some fooled into believing that I'm organized,
but enough of that.
Now down to the business at hand.
I want to solicit rules input for road course and autocross. We have a few
ideas already submitted, but the more ideas the better. One full and
complete set of road course rules were submitted by our fellow steward Mike
Prezler, and it looks quite awesome to my eyes. Yet I'm not a road racer
and have never ever road raced. Mike mentioned that he offered the rules
package open for full criticism to the BOD and other racing stewards.
(Thanks again Mike).
I'll mail the package to any steward who would like to help with comments
and or opinions to edit. (too hard to put on the net). I know Ed Runnion
has a copy, and so does the rest of the BOD.
Also, many ideas have been put forth via this impalassforum. A good place
to refresh our ideas would be the original thread,
Road Course Thread
If the linke doesn't work, it can be found in ISSCA racing, under Road
Racing Rules.
Lets start that thread rolling again. There are so many ways to go about
doing this National for-fun-racing. So I'll try to get all of our ideas
gathered, and forwarded to the members of the board, and then be there
during their meeting in January to help answer questions.
The only request I have is that we concentrate on making the rules so that
we can have as much fun as possible.

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Hi Karl and racing stewards,

ISSCA Road Course Program

The DRAFT ISSCA Road Course Program - 2002 Rules have been developed through discussions with other Impala SS enthusiasts and personal experience. These rules are to be considered by the ISSCA board for adoption on January 26th.

The overall philosophy of the ISSCA Road Course Program is: "A competitive driving experience for all ISSCA enthusiasts in a fun, safe, and friendly environment where the primary emphasis is on safety, clean driving and machinery preservation." This philosophy is incorporated throughout the ISSCA Road Course Program - 2002 Rules. Another way to look at this is that the Goals of the ISSCA Road Course Program are:

1. Safety
2. Fun
3. Driving Fast

In this order! The danger inherent in Road Course driving should never be underestimated. We have had one Impala SS totaled here in California this year on the track.

The ISSCA Road Course Program Rules are intended to be a "living" document. It is anticipated that these rules will evolve over time and adapt to best meet ISSCA Road Course Program objectives. Much attention is given to encouraging and providing a method to allow rules to be modified as needed.

Any and all suggested rule modifications are encouraged and will be incorporated into the Draft 2002 Rules. Final 2002 Rules will be developed and sent to the ISSCA board for consideration prior to the January 26th meeting.

I would be excited to email anyone an electronic copy of the DRAFT ISSCA Road Course Program - 2002 Rules for review. Please email me at ([email protected]) or ask here and I will get a set of rules to you.

We encourage any and all review of these rules. These rule are for ISSCA members (like me) and will only get better with additional input.

The Road Course Rules describe the need for a "National Road Course Rules Committee". This committee is comprised of the National Racing Steward and a minimum of two Assistant Racing Stewards. Assistant Racing Stewards are active members in good standing appointed by the National Racing Steward. The current Assistant Racing Stewards are listed in Karl's original post.

I would like to volunteer to be a part of the National Road Course Rules Committee. We also need at least one more person to join the Committee (or more!)

ISSCA Autocross Rules

I have only Autocrossed once. So, I don't really know all of it's nuances. Autocrossing is very organized (when compared to Road Course for example). B-body enthusiasts typically join general estabished events organized by others. I don't know of Autocrossing organized by b-body folks for b-body folks? This means that the "rules" will be largely set by the sanctioning body that has organized the event.

I'm thinking that the big challenge in coming up with Autocross rules is how to score individuals to promote competition.

Lets hear from all the Autocrosser's out there!


Mike Preszler

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Mike, Again Thanks!
Check out this draft that Mike has gang. I like it, but as Mike said, it's open for adjustment if need be.
And thanks for volunteering for being on the Nat. Road Course Rules Committee.
I read over Mikes draft again yesterday, while waiting for a hair cut. The more I read it, the more I like it. You guys and gals should take Mike up on his offer to get a copy of the draft. And if anyone else has a set of rules drafted up in the rough, please post it or sent it via email on a word.doc or something. All proposals from these stewards will be submitted to the BOD. Trust me. I certainly will give my opinion to the BOD but I really want them to decide between all the options.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BAD ROD:
We have had one Impala SS totaled here in California this year on the track.

I would be excited to email anyone an electronic copy of the DRAFT ISSCA Road Course Program -

Was there anything safety wise that could of prevented that impala from getting totaled?could you please send me a copy of the rules?

[email protected]
Zap a copy of the rules to me too. mailto:[email protected]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DIMPALA:
Was there anything safety wise that could of prevented that impala from getting totaled?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No not really. At the request of the owner/operator I don't want to get into it too much, but we all thought he hit some fluid on the track, but he said he just plain old lost it. The important thing here is that NOBODY got hurt, thank God.
On AutoX rules, I see 2 ways we could go on classification :

1. Just use SCCA rules (FS, ESP, CP, and SM would cover 99.9% of SS's out there), with the only "mod" to the rules to allow aftermarket rear control arms in ESP and up (legally in SCCA, they bump you to CP.....however the stock arms are a safety hazard on our cars with bigger-than-stock bars).

2. Go similar to what they did in Detroit or Dallas this year. Detroit was actually fairly close to SCCA, just called something else
. Dallas had 2 classes : "stock" and "modified", plus a novice and pro subclass of each of the above (for a total of 4 classes).

As for points : that gets trickier
. I'd suggest that it ONLY counts if there are 2 (or more) ISSCA members in your class at the event (SCCA, NASA, BMWCCA, PCA, etc). If the qualifying number of folks ARE there, then go on some kinda sliding type scale (i.e. 50 participation points, plus 50 points for 1st, 40 for 2nd, 30 for 3rd, etc).

Then someone has to keep track of it all on a national scale :D

Just some thoughts on it.....
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That's the direction I was going with my thinking on the points structure Ed. There lies one of two problems for us. How do we award points? Here in SoCal we could have as many as 15 Impalas at an event but in the Mid West it looks as if there could only be one to five on the track.

Classing the cars is the other. That can be done as you suggest. I am looking at a discussion going on right now on setting up the same exact thing for Corvettes. This is what they are leaning towards at the moment: Classing the cars based upon horsepower. With the limited amount of Impalas this may be one direction that we can go in.

The critical thing is we NEED to know how many particpants we are going to have. From there we can better judge on how we are going to class the cars. For example, if all the participants are all at 300-350 HP then we would class by brakes, suspension, etc. If everyone has varying degrees of HP then we break them apart that way.

Did that make any sense? :D Maybe we can send out a questioneer (by way of snail mail) to all ISSCA members looking for interest levels so that we may begin setting things in place.
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I would like to see something get put together for Autocrossing even if we don't have all the "nuts and bolts" figured out yet. We can "fine tune" it as we go.

Is anyone working up a set of ISSCA Autocross rules to be submitted to the board later this month?

Ed, you would be the natural for this. :D

Dominique, as Greg said, there really wasn't anything that could have been done to prevent the crash. The crash was a single car and no body was injured. It highlights the inherent danger of Road Course driving. You never know what might happen. We must always put safety first.

Suggestions for the Draft Road Course rules:

In Car Classification, Prepared Class add the following:

R. Body modifications for aerodynamic purposes shall not extend more than 6 inches in any directon from stock contours.

This will allow better front air dams and spoilers without letting us get wild. Under the "Any modification not specifically listed is not allowed." proviso, 9C1 front air dam outers are not allowed on Impalas except in Modified Class.

In the Safety section I would prefer to see only SA rated helmets allowed. M rated lids are designed for rubbing along the pavement, SA rated are designed for hitting things like roll bars and door frames. Roll bars/cages should have SFI padding wherever they could be contacted by driver or passenger. Allow mounting harnesses to stock hard points and 6-point sub belts to seat rail bolts. That's acceptable to NHRA, Silver State and C.A.R.S. I believe that long sleeves should be mandated and gloves should be required to be either all leather or fi9re resistant fabric. No holes in the gloves (golf gloves). Also, clothing should be non-synthetic (cotton, wool, leather, etc.)

Driveshaft loops should be required for Modified and strongly encouraged for Prepared.

At least for Prepared and Mod, and probably for Stock; A 2.5 lb. Minimum, automotive BC fire extinguisher, with a secure quick-release mounting bracket made of metal. The extinguisher must be within easy reach of the Driver.

Minimum Tire rating should be Z.

I'll probably come up with more, but these are from the first read-through.

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I'm reposting what I suggested for autocross scoring last year, with a little bit of editing. Though we didn't use it, it seems workable to me. A problem I see is that your score will not be only compared to yother B-Bocies, but to the class you are running in. However, it eliminates the problem of low B-Body participation (I'm usually the only one when I compete, including a National Tour event last year).
I've stolen from various clubs and here is my proposal for comment.

1. Each event will have a score of 0-100 points.

2. The points are determined using the following index: Points = best time in class / competitor's time X 100. Points will be rounded to 3 decimal places.

3. If running in a handicapped class, the score shall be computed using corrected times.

4. Time Only runs are not scored.

5. End of season awards will be based on the following standards:

a. Throwouts:
Number of events----------Number of events
participated in--------------to be dropped

b. After events are dropped, an average of the points earned will be calculated.

6. The average number shall be communicated to the Chief Steward by January 15th of the following year. Certified copies (by the secretary of the club putting on the autocross event) of all results that are not available on the web shall be kept until after the presentation of the yearly awards for possible auditing.
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Hey Gene, Thanks for the above post. It is good to get all these suggestions out and posted here. I'm pretty much just going to use this forum and thread to gather up and submit the suggestions to the BOD>
A week from now, I'm going to post right here a summary of what we have, then get more comment, and then send it off to Harvey Clark and Chuck Spera so that they have time to munch on it.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ablebakercharlie:
This rule effectively eliminates all non-Impalas on stock tires, including all 9C1 cop cars with V rated stock tires, and stock 154 or 130 mph speed limiters.

I see no reason at all to disallow V (or, track-dependent, H) rated tires on cars originally equipped with same.


Good catch! I agree here. Some of us have civi Caprices, Roadmasters, Fleetwoods, and Custom Cruisers. Some of us might want to autocross or road race with them. My civi is governed at 108mph (?) and my regular tires match that. Of course, I'm not gonne be autocrossing this car anytime soon. I might try a road course in it someday. It'll be nose heavy though :D
Agreed, the Z rating is a bad call.


These are great ideas for the Road Course Program. We have gone back and forth on some of these issues. I especially like your approach on the safety issues (drive shaft loop, fire extinguisher, etc.) I will incorporate these approaches into the rules package.


On the subject of required equipment:
One thing a bit out of the ordinary that I would like considered is "Screw type" hose clamps on both upper and lower radiator hoses. I myself took out and entire row of cones in a corner at the Houston police academy AutoX a few years back when the upper hose came off!
I have seen two other SS's loose a hose while auto crossing - both with factory spring type clamps. (1 at Impalafest 2001)

In an AutoX this doesn't really pose a safety hazard but in a road course situation in easily could!

Todd Stranczek
ISSCA #365
[email protected]
1996 BBB........
Hi everyone. It's great to see the ideas, opinons and participation.
Is everone pretty much happy with the rough draft and suggestions to Mike's Road Course Rules?
And as for AutoCross, Can I get a vote for:
1. Make classes simmilar to SCCA
2. Do it like Detroit-Dallas..."stock" and "modified", plus a novice and pro subclass of each of the above (for a total of 4 classes). ?
3. Make the AutoCross classes exactly like the Road Course Classes?

I have a couple of comments on Mike's Draft of the road course rules. Need everyone's feedback on the following:
The STOCK class: Will there be any cars out there in the ISSCA world that meet this definition? or in other words, will there be more than just a few cars competing in this class? (stock transgo, stock air intake, stock exhaust might whittle the available cars down to a few).
If the car count is low, due to so many club cars having one or all of these mods, yet being darn near almost stock, then maybe we could at a later date, allow the Stock Class to have any cold air intake, any aftermarket exhaust and possible allow for longevity type "transgo" mods. ????? comments.

Safety. I like it all. One thing that I suggest we as Stewards be ready to deal with though is "Safety Rule #13. Catch tank for radiator overflow and oil breather, (if vented into the atmosphere), is mandatory".
The stock Bbody catch tank is not a catch tank. It is simply an expansion tank and vents at 15psi-18psi all over the engine and track. We really NEED a catch tank. I "think" that they make a cap for our "Expansion Tank" that has a relief line that can go into a catch tank. (I saw it on a 94 Northstar engine Caddy??? I think).
We should have ISSCA purchase a bunch of these caps, and encourage all paticipants to retrofit the overflow cap and catch can in their cars. If someone doesn't have one, then let them borrow one of the ISSCA caps-tanks. (Yet I'm not certain that a cap like this exist so I'll start researching).
Reason: if our car overflows all over the engine compartment and track...and not into a catch can. :(
Crank case breathers also need to vent into a can...which 99.99% of Bbody owners do not have. The valve cover breather mod is very popular and we might make the club members mad if we tell them to put the original stock passenger side valve cover hose back on. But that stock hose is very good and safe. If excess oil and gasses get to blowing by in the crankcase...they get contained by going to the intake. A press-on aftermarket valve cover breather will simply pop off and let oil spew all over the engine and possibly cause a fire....and total loss of vehicle or worse.
I dont' think we need to require screw clamps for radiator hoses. I've seen radiator hoses blow even with screw on clamps, (the clamp cuts the hose). It's really due to the stock water pump pressure sugre during hard shifts. So I think there is no "help" by requireing the screw clamps. When a system is going to let go, it lets go any way it can find. My car pops out the thermostat housing vent plug when it "overpressurizes".
Suggestion for rule #13 modification:
Catch Tank for radiator overflow is recommended.
Make new rule #13a. Press-in Valve Cover Breathers are NOT allowed. Screw in Valve cover breather are allowed. All valve cover breathers must vent into a catch tank or engine intake. The stock PCV system is Highly Recommended.

Just remember, when we make saftey rules like what has been suggested, many people become childlike and stomp around cussing and saying things like, "everyone I know has this mod and you say I CANT HAVE IT.
Just things we have to deal with and I think we can with the quality people here.
Karl Ellwein
BOD appointed National Racing Steward.
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Need comments before the 25th
Karl and all,
I agree with most of the recommendations made on this thread. Safety should be our first concern. This type of racing will be an occasional event for more of us. I agree with the coolant catch tank but I do have a question about the valve cover breather issue. The stock setup is also just a press in connection, no different then the breather insert. If this is a concern it would seem that some type of positive lock would be needed for that connection. I am not against this, it would be very simple to plug the stock setup in but would it be any better.
I would like to see our classes setup as close to SCCA classes as possible. As far as stock class is concerned, if there are enough car available in pure stock trim then we should hold to that class. If the class is to small, then we should allow basic intake and exhaust mods to be considered stock.
Hi Don,
You have a good point about the stock PCV system being press on. I agree. If stock is no better than an aftermarket presson breather, then why require a more firm connection? So let's never mind on any rule stipulations for oil breathers. Stock should be ok, and aftermarket breathers should be ok. Mike has the working good on the oil breather, (if vented to the atmosphere, oil breather is required).
I still have to search for an expansion tank cap that relieves via a "hose-into-bottle"
You guys that road race all the time....what do the track officials say about our expansion tank? The corvettes have them too. Do they just ignore it? If it is ok with them, then maybe it should be ok with us. I know that if the motor does overheat and cause the cap to releave pressure, water or antifreeze goes all over the motor and power steering slips, which could be a concern. But if they don't say anything at these professionally sanctioned places, then I think we shouldn't overly concern ourselves.
I have another question for you guys that road race. Do they require that cars run only water in the coolant system? (drag racing requires that but they do not enforce it since they have "street" classes).
Antifreeze sucks trying to clean it up on the road. But:
Who is going to require everyone to flush their entire system and go to pure water?
I don't think we should. But we might "encourage" pure water.
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