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Road Course and AutoX rules talk...ISSCA Stewards Look Inside

656 Views 29 Replies 0 Participants Last post by  KDCM96SS
This thread is really for the official ISSCA racing stewards, (not that we
don't value other opinions).
Gene Bennett-West
Les Brown-West
Dominique Medina-West
David Valentine-West
Greg Smith-West
Mike Prezler-West
Tina Lawson-South
Cheston Phillips-South
Keith Brantley-South
Don Pusso-South East
Paul Kemlage-East
Lyndon Wesson-East
Karl Ellwein-East
James Foster-North
Chuck Spera-North

Ladies and gentlemen, The Annual Board of Directors meeting in Indianapolis
will be the 26th of January. I plan to attend as an appointed official to
help in any way possible.
The board and ISSCA members would be well served if we as racing stewards
could give them a good set of road course and autocross rules for 2002. We
have a set of drag racing rules already, but they could be adjusted as
I am not well suited for the job as National Racing Steward, due to my lack
of organizational skills, and due to my tendency to procrastinate. I might
have some fooled into believing that I'm organized,
but enough of that.
Now down to the business at hand.
I want to solicit rules input for road course and autocross. We have a few
ideas already submitted, but the more ideas the better. One full and
complete set of road course rules were submitted by our fellow steward Mike
Prezler, and it looks quite awesome to my eyes. Yet I'm not a road racer
and have never ever road raced. Mike mentioned that he offered the rules
package open for full criticism to the BOD and other racing stewards.
(Thanks again Mike).
I'll mail the package to any steward who would like to help with comments
and or opinions to edit. (too hard to put on the net). I know Ed Runnion
has a copy, and so does the rest of the BOD.
Also, many ideas have been put forth via this impalassforum. A good place
to refresh our ideas would be the original thread,
Road Course Thread
If the linke doesn't work, it can be found in ISSCA racing, under Road
Racing Rules.
Lets start that thread rolling again. There are so many ways to go about
doing this National for-fun-racing. So I'll try to get all of our ideas
gathered, and forwarded to the members of the board, and then be there
during their meeting in January to help answer questions.
The only request I have is that we concentrate on making the rules so that
we can have as much fun as possible.

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The Road course classes were developed with a road course in mind. We have rules like "All braking system modifications are allowed." in the stock class (this includes big brake systems). This is important on a road course as it can be a safety issue, especially on certain tracks. Stock brakes are prone to overheating and failure. However, on an autocross course, big brakes are not used so much as a safety precaution as a means to generate faster lap times. I think autocrossing classes should not follow road course.

The SCCA classes are designed to encompass all vehicles. I am not as familiar with these classes as I need to be to vote for or against this option. Can we do a better job classifying b-body's amongst themselves that SCCA can?

I would lean towards voting for number 1 or 2 (SCCA or Detroit-Dallas 4 classes).

Road Course

Karl asks: "The STOCK class: Will there be any cars out there in the ISSCA world that meet this definition?"

Very good question. The intent of this class is to let people with little or no car modifications to participate against each other. Now that you bring this up, I think you make a good point. It is probably rare to find someone that is interested in cars and racing enough to participate in a road course event but has not modded his/her car. We may not see a lot of people in this category. I agree with Don in that we could alter the rules to allow more modifications in the stock class if it turns out we don't have any stock cars. I don't know of a good way to figure this out short of organizing a few events and see who participates.

For the record, I have a stock tranny, no transgo, and stock air intake! (although I would be in the prepared class due to suspension changes). I am going to have to "hook up" with you drag racers and learn to appreciate engine mods! :D

As far as the catch can for radiator fluid is concerned, I have to think some more about this. I am going to talk with some folks that are more experienced with this and hope to get some insight.

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Keep this thread moving gang. All comments go here.
I'm down close to crunch time. Going to Indy for the ISSCA board meeting the 25th and 26th of this month.
So I hope to be somewhat organized by then.
I printed out a hard copy this thread, and the other started by Greg Smith last year about road racing rules. I read and re-read all of the comments and suggestions....remembering that we are trying to come up with a national system of Road Racing and Autocross rules for ISSCA, and for scoring points. And that we are trying to make the system encourage participation and close competition, yet majoring on fun. I think I picked all the right racing stewards because that is what everyone has been working toward in this thread.

National point scoring:
Gene Bennett, (SSpiffy), and James Foster had great point system suggestions posted in both threads. I'll discuss these with the board at Indy.

AutoCross classes:
Of course many ISSCA members AutoX with their local SCCA club. I think that ISSCA's involvement would be more for impala club gatherings. So instead of using SCCA rules verbatim, let's taylor them to fit the ISSCA member cars.
I'll submit the Dreamapalooza and Impalafest rules to the board as a start.

Road Racing Classes:
I'll submit Mike Prezler's draft to the board.

Drag Racing:
We already have an approved set of rules and classes, but I'll ask the board if they think the classes or rules should be tweaked.

Here are some questions going through my mind right now that I hope we could brainstorm in the next week.
What method could we create that could determine a national champion?
One way would be to qualify by attending a regional event, and then those qualified could duke it out at one certain place. (Arlington?)
Other ways????

We might serve the ISSCA member better by not stressing a national champion so much but concentrate more on regional participation in established AutoX events and ISSCA club events. Encourage ISSCA members to create club events, drag days, road course events, AutoX events. Give them a good set of standard rules to go by at their club events. ???

I'm going to try to lobby for the most simple set of rules as humanly possible. It would be very cool if the set of rules approved and published by ISSCA could be used by many of the different impala clubs around the USA and world. The ultimate would be that clubs simply pull out our rule book and use it.
I'm also going to lobby for that National Rules Committee that Mike suggested. The National Rules Committee could get together every year and brainstorm like we are trying to do here, just more efficiently.

Anybody have lingering questions?

thanks, Karl Ellwein
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Karl and all,
I agree with you on using all the rules and classes you listed. A lot of time and energy went into those. As far as a National champion , this would appear to be a difficult and labor-intensive task. Would we have to have one for each type of racing and class or would this be a combination of all events or both. You would have to ensure that all classes and rules were followed at all local events. Record keeping would also be massive. National champ sounds great and it would be a very significant award but with this type of organization it seems out of reach. You are aware of the record keeping involved when considering multiable events from your drag racing series. Do you think we would be able to keep up with many events from all over the country?? A large part of the country is very limited on opportunities at racing. Other areas can race every weekend. I don't want to be negative about any type of award but a National award may be more than we can handle. Now that I have said this, if someone has a straightforward way to do it and it would be fair to all competitors, I'll do what I can to help. Thanks
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For the road racing and AutoX I think we should be very flexible in the first year. Let's ues that year to work out the bugs. We WILL have to tweak some things as we go.

The National Champ will have to wait at least a year. Let's just go with the regional champs for now with an event at least once a year that would be a national event and not necessarily an Invitational. Then one could be the the Champ of the Nationals or something of the like.

I think Mike has a good grip on a rules package.
I'm glad you guys don't mind flexibility. I hope that maybe I can word-smythe some flexibility in our first set of rules. Until we get some experience at putting on events and more input as to what people like and dislike, then maybe it would be "best" to pass a set of rules to the BOD that are wide open and more general in wording.
We could word-smythe the class requirements with options. Something like, "At the discretion of the event organizers...Cold air intake and aftermarket exhaust mods may be assigned to the "stock" class....bla, bla bla"
I think the only place we actually need to build in options and flexibility, is in the classifying of cars.

I see what you guys are saying about National Champ. Very hard to create a method to determine one.
If, between now and the 26th of Jan, someone gets a brain cramp which results in a great idea for a national champ mechanism, then by all means post it.

I hope to be able to call some or all of you on Friday the 25th and Saturday the 26th while I'm hashing out the rules with the BOD. Sort of a peer check, a way to bounce ideas around without having to post an email and wait a day for a response.
Any of the Stewards that would be willing to give me their phone number via my email address, please do so.
[email protected]

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Karl, yes I think you are right that flexibiliy should be maintained in any rules package.

Regarding the Road Course rules. We have (in the third paragraph of the preface) the following..

..."If event or series participation is inadequate to support three classes of competition, alternative classes maybe used."

**BTW, I notice the rules you have actually say "completion". It should read "competition". Damn spell check! ;) **

Anyway, this is intended to do just what you are mentioning.
Give flexibiliy to separate classes how ever it works best.

Keep up the good work!

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Mike! Looks like your way ahead of things.
So it looks like we are covered already with the draft, (accept for the spelling).

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Note on autocross scoring.

I had a thought today (used up my quota for the week..) Under my proposed autocross scoring there should be a minumum number of events required - maybe 3 or 4. I know that if there were a trophy and bragging rights on the line and I won class the first event I attended, I would run Time Only for the rest of the season or become a car slut and warm tires for other drivers in their cars. Why? Because that single win would give me a 100 point average for the season and I would be guaranteed a first place trophy at the end of the year. :D :D
harvey touched on this before and i e-mailed ed for his input. since safety seems at the top of most everybody's list (rules also). maybe there should be some time set aside before the event starts for free laps. not "fast laps", just get 6-8 cars out there at a given time spread out for 3-5 laps so they can see the track for themselves. this would benefit everybody in getting to know the track layout and where lines are.
just a thought...
see you guys in st. louis. :D
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