[henry36]

This is the last big bang mod for this car. I have a 63 wagon that needs my attention. I been neglecting my wagon for too long. My wife is all in on the 63. Here's a few pics of the long roof.

 

[henry36]

Bags, fuel and brake lines are next.

 

[Chicagoareabmx]

That's a pretty conservative setup. After running that setup, what would be your next upgrade? It looks like crazy fun to drive. I can't wait to get my girl out there!

My buddy has a 97 t-bird that he tracks. It's pretty big too. We rebuilt the engine and added bigger heads cams intake, a fuel cell, coilovers, big brakes, radiator. That thing had crazy body roll. The fenders were cutting into the tires! We adjusted the coilovers and took her back out. We blew the trans and called it a day. Got it on the lift to see what the problem was. We forgot to bolt the front sway bar to the lower control arm! Haha! We ain't pros that's for sure!

Anyways, that's where I got the idea for the rear IRS swap.
That axle looks pretty awesome. I heard about the back yard way to heat the axle in the right spots to get camber and toe. Wears the ball joints though. I'd go with a heidts, roadstershop, or art Morrison irs for about the same price. This swap is pretty low buck.

Did you go with the f2b conversion or did you diy it?
I'll have to check the roll cage thread. I'd like to go that route but I enjoy the luxury of the 80's interior. I'd like to keep it sleeper/cruiser. I have an 84 Corvette that I'd like to put a cage in. I'm building a carbed 350 for it. I have a zf 6speed for it. That one is gonna be all track.

They are adjustable as in choose your camber by what axle ends you buy.
We are running - 1.5 both sides currently

One of the big pluses is the wheel bearings
No play, no pad knockback.
This car has kind of been back burnered as more " exciting " stablemates showed up but the neg camber was a big improvement

I bought the IRS on the 11th and it's been stuck sitting in a shipping warehouse for the past 2 weeks. Damn Corona! I been itching to get going on this swap!

Conservative as in not spending money I don't have, yes! Haha. It's at the point where any mods basically cost me track time, since I can't afford much of both at the same time. From here, just trying squeeze out as much performance as I can on the basic setup. I just recently picked up some fresh stock lower front control arms with Delrin bushings and shorter than stock tubular up arms with tall ball joints to better the camber curve under compression and be able to run more than -2.0 camber up front. Currently having to overinflate front tires to combat outer shoulder wear, so a bump in front camber should help. From there it'll be a multi piston real deal front brake upgrade to combat warping inboard backing plates, which will likely necessitate a bigger badder wheel/tire package, which will necessitate a road race baffled oil pan due to higher cornering loads, etc etc. Snowballs quick, but trying to keep it in check. Bigger stickier tires would be HUGE for me, but then, obviously more load on the brakes and possibility to starve oil. Eventually I would like to do a slightly tweaked LT1 with some mild head/cam work to unlock some more RPM and HP, but not before addressing brakes and tires.

Yeah I was alluding to the heating/torching of the rear housing to get some crude camber and toe. No ball joints back there, but could arguably put a little more stress on the ends of the axle splines.... however it sounds like a lot of folks "get away with it" for a loooong time due to slop in those interfaces anyway.

My swap was a homebrew setup from another forum member who likes to DIY. He sold me the whole swap some years ago at a bargain price. Built his own F-body pedal bracket. Not as pretty, but wayyyy cheaper and it works!

Copy that on swapping axles for rear end camber adjustment. Pipe dreams for me, but cool nonetheless!

 

[henry36]

Finally got the IRS delivered! I'll post pics and comparisons.

 

[henry36]

Conservative as in not spending money I don't have, yes! Haha. It's at the point where any mods basically cost me track time, since I can't afford much of both at the same time. From here, just trying squeeze out as much performance as I can on the basic setup. I just recently picked up some fresh stock lower front control arms with Delrin bushings and shorter than stock tubular up arms with tall ball joints to better the camber curve under compression and be able to run more than -2.0 camber up front. Currently having to overinflate front tires to combat outer shoulder wear, so a bump in front camber should help. From there it'll be a multi piston real deal front brake upgrade to combat warping inboard backing plates, which will likely necessitate a bigger badder wheel/tire package, which will necessitate a road race baffled oil pan due to higher cornering loads, etc etc. Snowballs quick, but trying to keep it in check. Bigger stickier tires would be HUGE for me, but then, obviously more load on the brakes and possibility to starve oil. Eventually I would like to do a slightly tweaked LT1 with some mild head/cam work to unlock some more RPM and HP, but not before addressing brakes and tires.

Yeah I was alluding to the heating/torching of the rear housing to get some crude camber and toe. No ball joints back there, but could arguably put a little more stress on the ends of the axle splines.... however it sounds like a lot of folks "get away with it" for a loooong time due to slop in those interfaces anyway.

My swap was a homebrew setup from another forum member who likes to DIY. He sold me the whole swap some years ago at a bargain price. Built his own F-body pedal bracket. Not as pretty, but wayyyy cheaper and it works!

Copy that on swapping axles for rear end camber adjustment. Pipe dreams for me, but cool nonetheless!

Your new upper and lower control arm setup should make a huge difference. When I first started tinkering with the idea of tracking my Caprice I thought about using factory g-body uppers and tall ball joints. Not sure how well it would work but they would definitely give it more camber. I'm running tubular control arms made for 2nd gen f-bodys. They are way cheaper than b-body arms. They are essentially the same geometry.
I heard a long time ago that making a car stick is by far the best mods to do rather than horsepower or torque. Plus learning how to drive. I thought I was a good driver till I got on the track. I found out quick I didn't know squat.
Are you happy with your spring rates?
I bought a cheap eBay 8qt oil pan with several trap doors. I had to notch the crossmember to get it to fit. It's a pretty nice pan for under $100.
I got my IRS in today. I lined it up with the old original 7.5 10 bolt for comparison. I can see a few major issues right off the top.
The rear of the subframe is gonna run into the gas tank and I might have to notch the frame to clear the upper control arm to spindle mount. Other than that the spring & shock mounts should be fairly easy to work out and the crown vic/marauder p71 aluminum driveshaft should work also.
I was hoping to do this without pulling the body off frame but i think I'm gonna weld the crossmember in solid rather than weld in mounts. Then I can run some tubing to tie in the front to back as well as some drive shaft loops. Maybe a torque arm? I don't wanna add too much and make it heavier than it needs to be though. It's about as heavy as an f-body right now.
Anyways, here's some pics.

 

[henry36]

I took the Caprice out for a drive last night and again today after work. She seems to be running better. I think the pcm just needs a chance to learn and adjust. I still need to go through the fan wiring. They still stay on constantly. Regardless, I'm glad I went with the t56 swap. I need to find a better shift knob. The original one isn't comfortable.

I'm gonna miss those super deep dish wheels!

 

[Chicagoareabmx]

Man that car looks clean!

I found and bought these tubular upper arms thanks to a fellow forum member:

https://southsidemachineperformance.com/shop/ols/products/ssm-stage-1-front-end-kit-gm-b-body-1978-1996

$320 WITH QA1 rebuildable tall upper ball joints and free shipping?? Hard to beat! Received them a day or two ago, and they look great.

Driver mods are always the best mods!!!!

Yes I'm happy with the spring rates for a car that still sees regular street duty. If I were doing it all over again, I would likely opt for the 800inlb front springs though. Pretty sure Moog offers a pretty wide variety of rates for their "truck" springs". I still get a lot of brake dive, but I could also get a better/adjustable front shock option to help there too. For the Vogtland rear springs, they may not even be available any more? No clue. I did cut about 3" length of the upper pigtail end to get the car to sit level with a full tank of fuel. Not a tight fit around the frame nipple anymore, but never had any issues in the last 15 years. I'm pretty sure the Vogtlands were a mildly progressive rate that was in the neighborhood of 250inlb? I like the rear soft - it's MUCH more forgiving to sloppy driving, and seems to be able to put the power down sooner. Easy to correct if I get overzealous with my inputs.

That IRS looks beefy, especially compared to the stock stick axle Any idea what it weighs?

What style of shift knob do you have? I've got a plain maybe 2-3" diameter round ball and I love it. A little slick for sweaty hands slamming gears, but I bought some nice Alpinestars Nomex driving gloves with silicone grippers on the palm and fingers to combat that for hot and heavy track duty.

 

[Ken Hennessy]

You on't need a Torque arm with an IRS.

 

[henry36]

You're correct. I have a c4 Corvette and it has a torque arm that doubles as a transmission mount. I wonder how that would do on my car. The Corvette frame is a perimeter frame. I know our cars have chassis flex. I assume the c4 does also. Did the design it with the torque arm to combat that flex?

 

[henry36]

Man that car looks clean!

I found and bought these tubular upper arms thanks to a fellow forum member:

https://southsidemachineperformance.com/shop/ols/products/ssm-stage-1-front-end-kit-gm-b-body-1978-1996

$320 WITH QA1 rebuildable tall upper ball joints and free shipping?? Hard to beat! Received them a day or two ago, and they look great.

Driver mods are always the best mods!!!!

Yes I'm happy with the spring rates for a car that still sees regular street duty. If I were doing it all over again, I would likely opt for the 800inlb front springs though. Pretty sure Moog offers a pretty wide variety of rates for their "truck" springs". I still get a lot of brake dive, but I could also get a better/adjustable front shock option to help there too. For the Vogtland rear springs, they may not even be available any more? No clue. I did cut about 3" length of the upper pigtail end to get the car to sit level with a full tank of fuel. Not a tight fit around the frame nipple anymore, but never had any issues in the last 15 years. I'm pretty sure the Vogtlands were a mildly progressive rate that was in the neighborhood of 250inlb? I like the rear soft - it's MUCH more forgiving to sloppy driving, and seems to be able to put the power down sooner. Easy to correct if I get overzealous with my inputs.

That IRS looks beefy, especially compared to the stock stick axle Any idea what it weighs?

What style of shift knob do you have? I've got a plain maybe 2-3" diameter round ball and I love it. A little slick for sweaty hands slamming gears, but I bought some nice Alpinestars Nomex driving gloves with silicone grippers on the palm and fingers to combat that for hot and heavy track duty.

Those upper arms, ball joints, and fancy bushings should help you alot. I think I'll add some tall upper joints to my set up. The oil pan I have is a circle track claimer 8qt oil pan with 7 trap doors. It's cool but I had to notch the frame to fit. I took the trans cooler and made it into an engine oil cooler. How does the fuel tank do. Any starvation on the track? That's my only worry.
The track in Deming, New Mexico is called Arroyo Seco. It's available for private rental by the 1/2 day or full day. And a fee for each car, up to 5 cars, I believe. It's a small track but it's yours for the time rented. You can get on and off as you please. No pressure. Pull over, make adjustments, get back on. Look into it if you or anyone reading is near.
The IRS comes in at 210 lbs. At least that was the shipping weight with no rotors, shocks, or springs.
Cons are the weight and time & money involved in the swap.
Pros are all the adjustment, balance, and roll center.
Plus the cool factor. It should handle corners faster. The aluminum case is iffy but we don't launch on road courses, so it may hold up. It's gonna take alot of fab work though. I'm not the best welder so I'm gonna cut and tack everything how I want it and have a friend with certified skills burn it in. No turning back!
You're living the dream bud! How far are you from the nearest track? I'd rather spend my time there but I'm hell bent on fixing up junk cars! Haha! I started with this car. The added my wagon. Then came my 77 k10. The my z3. Then the c4. I'll try and squeeze some track time in during the spring and fall. If I have money! Let me know how much time you lost with those mods.
The shifter is the stock Camaro. It's a leather ball but it's stripped cuz it moves. Id like to find something that goes with the 80's theme. Some old faux wood grain. Haha!
My suspension mods are from reading I've done on this forum. I went with Moog crown vic p91 front springs. They're about 750 lbs I believe. I have the ws6 1 1/4" bar in front. The shocks are kybs. The tubulars are BMR 2nd gen fbody. It's a good starting point for the front. I'd like to go with Viking double adjustable shocks someday. Gotta put in some overtime for those. The rear is all going up for sale. The only thing I'll keep are the ls1 rear rotors and calipers. The rotors are about the size of our factory front b-body 12" rotors. That should be good for the rear. The front brakes are the weak link from what I've read. The 05-06 gto rotors aren't that tall but they are very thick with alot of space on the cooling fins. These 80's cars are a bit lighter so those mods should do the job.

 

[Chicagoareabmx]

Oil cooler is a must at the track without a doubt. Lucky for me, the 9c1 cars had a pretty decent one from factory. Do you have or planning on an oil temp gauge?
Definitely gonna want some power steering cooling as well. I'm running an underdrive crank pulley to slow the PS pump, as well as a 2 power steering coolers in series, and it still gets hot enough to overflow the tank if I fill it anything over the MIN mark. I also have almost 200k on the OE pump and box, so that may be contributing to the heat? Not sure. Been running Redline synthetic PS fluid for years and it seems to be helping keep everything alive!

So for fuel starvation, I'm good as long as I have half tank or more. I always try and keep it full as possible, not only to prevent starvation, but to also help keep the pump cool and for ballast over the back as well. I've only ever fuel starved once, on the street, about 3/8ths tank on a sustained left hand sweeper at speed. Initially thought I had an ignition hiccup, haha. No idea if the tanks and pumps are the same between the box and bubble?

Pretty cool that you can almost have your own private track time. Never had anything like that, except maybe the last session of the day or if it's pouring rain, haha.

That IRS is NOT light huh? Hopefully it's worth the weight penalty and trouble. Gonna be a cool project regardless. It'll be exceptional for bumpy roads and tracks no doubt!

My nearest track is Pocono Raceway, NASCAR Tri Oval with some pretty cool infield road course configs. Wild if any use the banking. 115 mph steady state around a corner next to a wall is kinda gnarly. Lots of other tracks within about 3 hours, and double that within 5 hours or so. The east coast is dense with them, just gotta be ok with taking winters off and cross your fingers for dry days.

I started with this car as well. Might have done things differently if I would have known I'd be a road course guy, but it's been a fun and super rewarding journey.

Time I lost with the mods? Like dropping lap times?

You should be off to a real solid start with all your mods so far. Just get out there and start driving the thing! It'll give you a better idea of what you might want to change if anything, but really just getting used to the car is paramount.

 

[toonwarrior]

Last seen was the last post, wonder what happened...